1
00:00:00,180 --> 00:00:03,810
Well, welcome everyone to the 2022

2
00:00:03,810 --> 00:00:07,503
Forest Ecosystem Monitoring
Cooperative Conference.

3
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,790
Let's hope everyone enjoys their time here

4
00:00:11,790 --> 00:00:13,350
and the weather holds out

5
00:00:13,350 --> 00:00:15,270
until we're able to

6
00:00:15,270 --> 00:00:16,530
either settle in for the night,

7
00:00:16,530 --> 00:00:18,930
or get safely home.

8
00:00:18,930 --> 00:00:19,890
I'm Justin Perry.

9
00:00:19,890 --> 00:00:20,850
I'm the chief of the

10
00:00:20,850 --> 00:00:23,520
Bureau of Invasive Species
and Ecosystem Health

11
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,560
with the Division of Lands and Forests

12
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,900
in the Department of
Environmental Conservation

13
00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:29,503
at New York State.

14
00:00:29,503 --> 00:00:31,650
(audience laughing)

15
00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:34,650
It's my pleasure to be kicking
off our conference today

16
00:00:34,650 --> 00:00:37,560
with a theme of advances in forest science

17
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,060
thinking especially about

18
00:00:39,060 --> 00:00:43,053
the role of innovation and
technology in forest management.

19
00:00:44,430 --> 00:00:47,190
Technology plays an
increasingly important role

20
00:00:47,190 --> 00:00:49,380
in forest ecosystem work,

21
00:00:49,380 --> 00:00:51,750
and I'm excited about the
thoughtful and critical lens

22
00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:53,010
we'll be bringing to this topic

23
00:00:53,010 --> 00:00:55,230
throughout the session today.

24
00:00:55,230 --> 00:00:56,910
I invite you to reflect

25
00:00:56,910 --> 00:01:00,570
on how technology and innovation
contribute to your work,

26
00:01:00,570 --> 00:01:03,450
as well as the limitations and challenges

27
00:01:03,450 --> 00:01:08,163
in incorporating new
technologies into this work.

28
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,790
I look to the future of the FEMC.

29
00:01:11,790 --> 00:01:14,960
I see growth and new opportunities.

30
00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:17,070
The FEMC has solidified its staff

31
00:01:17,070 --> 00:01:18,690
after a period of transition

32
00:01:18,690 --> 00:01:20,550
and has continued its important work

33
00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:23,490
across the region during this time.

34
00:01:23,490 --> 00:01:25,170
A special thank you to Elissa Schuett

35
00:01:25,170 --> 00:01:27,720
for taking on the role of acting director

36
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,370
during this transition period

37
00:01:29,370 --> 00:01:30,723
and keeping the lights on.

38
00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:32,550
In the past year,

39
00:01:32,550 --> 00:01:35,430
each state had a state
partnership committee meeting,

40
00:01:35,430 --> 00:01:38,940
where they helped identify the
priorities for the regions,

41
00:01:38,940 --> 00:01:41,070
from which we've selected
our regional projects

42
00:01:41,070 --> 00:01:42,273
for the next year.

43
00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:47,070
Monitoring the impacts of
recreation on forest ecosystems

44
00:01:47,070 --> 00:01:49,230
and exploring trends in tree mortality

45
00:01:49,230 --> 00:01:51,483
as a response to disturbance drivers.

46
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,570
Don't go away after the plenary sessions,

47
00:01:54,570 --> 00:01:56,880
you'll hear those updates.

48
00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,220
Thank you to all the experts
and leaders in the region

49
00:01:59,220 --> 00:02:03,390
who are helping to build up
and sustain the cooperative

50
00:02:03,390 --> 00:02:04,500
and to the forest service

51
00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:07,440
for its continued support of the program.

52
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,200
Through the FEMC priority setting process,

53
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:11,400
next January,

54
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,260
the FEMC committee

55
00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:14,610
will be further aligning

56
00:02:14,610 --> 00:02:17,280
the Forest Health
monitoring mission of FEMC

57
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,370
to the work being done across the region,

58
00:02:20,370 --> 00:02:23,670
and we think it will pay great dividends

59
00:02:23,670 --> 00:02:26,283
in securing this program into the future.

60
00:02:27,870 --> 00:02:29,700
We must acknowledge Senator Leahy,

61
00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:33,360
his tireless advocacy for
long-term environmental monitoring

62
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,920
has gotten us here.

63
00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:36,690
We are indebted to that investment

64
00:02:36,690 --> 00:02:39,750
and will work tirelessly to
make good on that effort,

65
00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:42,510
particularly in light of his retirement.

66
00:02:42,510 --> 00:02:44,850
We'll be continuing to
develop and strengthen

67
00:02:44,850 --> 00:02:47,790
our relationship with the
congressional delegations

68
00:02:47,790 --> 00:02:49,110
for all of our partner states

69
00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:52,713
to ensure long-term support
of FEMC and its mission.

70
00:02:53,970 --> 00:02:55,080
I would also like to thank

71
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,000
our conference planning committee,

72
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,840
Jess Wikle, Alana Russell, Mathias Sirch,

73
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,650
Jen Pontius, Colin Byer,
and Elissa Schuett.

74
00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:06,270
Thank you all for your excellent work

75
00:03:06,270 --> 00:03:08,850
in developing the theme
and plenary presenters

76
00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:10,353
for this year's conference.

77
00:03:11,250 --> 00:03:13,470
The future of FEMC is looking bright

78
00:03:13,470 --> 00:03:15,420
with many opportunities ahead,

79
00:03:15,420 --> 00:03:17,430
so take advantage of the discussions today

80
00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:19,440
to get inspired and get connected.

81
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,120
And thank you for being here.

82
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,413
It's been a long time.

83
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,920
And with that I'd like to
introduce Allison Adams,

84
00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:28,140
the new director for the FEMC.

85
00:03:28,140 --> 00:03:31,290
Allison comes to us from
Lake Champlain Sea Grant

86
00:03:31,290 --> 00:03:33,060
and UVM extension,

87
00:03:33,060 --> 00:03:36,150
where she served as the
watershed forestry coordinator,

88
00:03:36,150 --> 00:03:38,250
developing and running a program

89
00:03:38,250 --> 00:03:42,810
that facilitates research,
communication, and collaboration

90
00:03:42,810 --> 00:03:46,713
related to riparian forest
restoration and management.

91
00:03:47,580 --> 00:03:49,137
She has a master's degree from UVM

92
00:03:49,137 --> 00:03:51,930
and is currently completing her PhD.

93
00:03:51,930 --> 00:03:53,850
Her scholarship ranges

94
00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:55,800
from remote sensing and landscape modeling

95
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,540
of forest cover change,

96
00:03:57,540 --> 00:04:00,180
forest fragmentation, and carbon storage,

97
00:04:00,180 --> 00:04:03,480
to examinations of the ways
in which environmental change

98
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,210
affects individual
relationships with nature

99
00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:07,860
in terms of its values,

100
00:04:07,860 --> 00:04:11,070
like identity, heritage,
and sense of place.

101
00:04:11,070 --> 00:04:12,690
We're excited to have her on board

102
00:04:12,690 --> 00:04:14,090
and I'll hand it off to her.

103
00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:18,719
(audience clapping)

104
00:04:22,890 --> 00:04:23,820
Thank you Justin,

105
00:04:23,820 --> 00:04:25,410
and thank you to everyone who's here.

106
00:04:25,410 --> 00:04:27,570
We have more than 230 people

107
00:04:27,570 --> 00:04:28,950
who are registered for this conference

108
00:04:28,950 --> 00:04:30,990
in person and virtually,

109
00:04:30,990 --> 00:04:32,400
and it's really exciting

110
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,690
that this is happening in person

111
00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:35,823
for the first time since 2019.

112
00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:39,030
I'm thrilled that we're
able to be together

113
00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:40,290
in the space this year

114
00:04:40,290 --> 00:04:42,840
and I'm also excited to have
a chance to introduce myself

115
00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:44,730
to those of you I haven't met yet,

116
00:04:44,730 --> 00:04:47,250
and also to share a few quick words,

117
00:04:47,250 --> 00:04:50,103
hopefully quick, about the status of FEMC.

118
00:04:51,210 --> 00:04:53,400
But first I wanna start by acknowledging

119
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,170
that the campus of the
University of Vermont

120
00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:57,480
sits within a place of
gathering and exchange

121
00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,360
shaped by water and stewarded
by ongoing generations

122
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:01,800
of indigenous peoples,

123
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,470
in particular the Western Abenaki.

124
00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:05,610
Acknowledging the relations

125
00:05:05,610 --> 00:05:07,530
between water, land, and people

126
00:05:07,530 --> 00:05:10,407
is in harmony with the mission
of the University of Vermont.

127
00:05:10,407 --> 00:05:13,290
Acknowledging the serious
and significant impacts

128
00:05:13,290 --> 00:05:15,990
of our histories on indigenous
peoples and their homelands

129
00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:18,270
is a part of the university's ongoing work

130
00:05:18,270 --> 00:05:20,970
of teaching, research, and engagement,

131
00:05:20,970 --> 00:05:23,250
and is an essential reminder of our past

132
00:05:23,250 --> 00:05:24,750
and our interconnected futures

133
00:05:24,750 --> 00:05:27,210
for the many of us gathered on this land.

134
00:05:27,210 --> 00:05:28,950
UVM respects the indigenous knowledge

135
00:05:28,950 --> 00:05:30,180
interwoven in this place

136
00:05:30,180 --> 00:05:31,350
and commits to uplifting

137
00:05:31,350 --> 00:05:33,090
the indigenous peoples and cultures

138
00:05:33,090 --> 00:05:35,880
present on this land and
within our community.

139
00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,070
And I encourage everyone to think about

140
00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:39,600
how their work exists

141
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,220
in relation to the indigenous peoples

142
00:05:41,220 --> 00:05:42,930
who have lived, and continue to live

143
00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:45,270
and steward the land in the northeast.

144
00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:47,520
We've set up a station
in the fireplace lounge

145
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,110
for you to explore an online map

146
00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:51,090
of indigenous territories in the region

147
00:05:51,090 --> 00:05:54,120
and also add to a list we're compiling

148
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,320
of the name of tribe, or
tribes, on whose land you work.

149
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,320
So please do take the time
to stop by there today

150
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,330
and spend a little time
thinking about that

151
00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:04,773
and add to that list.

152
00:06:06,210 --> 00:06:07,043
Next,

153
00:06:07,043 --> 00:06:10,290
I wanna acknowledge and thank
the amazing group of staff

154
00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:12,330
based at FEMC,

155
00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:14,640
that made all of this year's
accomplishments a reality

156
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,830
while weathering a lot of
transitions on our team,

157
00:06:16,830 --> 00:06:19,140
including the departure of Jim Duncan.

158
00:06:19,140 --> 00:06:21,720
In my short time as the
new director of FEMC,

159
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,540
I can tell how lucky I am to
get to work with all of you

160
00:06:24,540 --> 00:06:26,040
and appreciate everything you do

161
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,900
to make FEMC what it is.

162
00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:28,733
We couldn't,

163
00:06:28,733 --> 00:06:30,540
and we also couldn't do any
of this without our partners.

164
00:06:30,540 --> 00:06:32,160
So thank you to the dozens of you

165
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,650
who have contributed to
state and regional projects,

166
00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:37,440
monitoring and advising
FEMC this past year.

167
00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,790
You really helped make
this a true cooperative.

168
00:06:41,130 --> 00:06:42,840
Speaking of state and regional projects,

169
00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:43,673
now is the fun part

170
00:06:43,673 --> 00:06:44,790
where I get to brag about

171
00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:45,960
just a few of the highlights

172
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,970
from the amazing work
FEMC did this past year

173
00:06:47,970 --> 00:06:49,920
that I was really not a part of at all.

174
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,930
So, as I expect everyone
in this room knows,

175
00:06:54,930 --> 00:06:56,730
dear browse has a really
significant impact

176
00:06:56,730 --> 00:06:59,520
on forest regeneration
across much of the Northeast.

177
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,370
And this year we completed
a literature review

178
00:07:02,370 --> 00:07:03,690
and tested a range of methods

179
00:07:03,690 --> 00:07:05,070
to provide recommendations

180
00:07:05,070 --> 00:07:08,220
to monitor the impacts of
dear browse across the region.

181
00:07:08,220 --> 00:07:10,350
And we'll be continuing
to collect data this year

182
00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:13,050
to refine and finalize
those recommendations,

183
00:07:13,050 --> 00:07:14,460
including providing information

184
00:07:14,460 --> 00:07:16,050
about the time and expense required

185
00:07:16,050 --> 00:07:17,790
to execute the field methods we tested.

186
00:07:17,790 --> 00:07:19,290
And we hope this will be helpful

187
00:07:19,290 --> 00:07:22,170
to many of you sitting
in the audience today.

188
00:07:22,170 --> 00:07:23,460
We've also continued to expand

189
00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:24,840
our regional monitoring program

190
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,550
and we completed monitoring in New York

191
00:07:26,550 --> 00:07:28,920
for the first time this past summer.

192
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:29,753
And in the past year

193
00:07:29,753 --> 00:07:31,170
we've also seen an expansion

194
00:07:31,170 --> 00:07:33,170
in our partnership efforts and projects.

195
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,520
I think one thing I really wanna highlight

196
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:36,900
is that we're on the brink of releasing

197
00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:39,570
the Northeastern Forest
Inventory Network, or NEFIN,

198
00:07:39,570 --> 00:07:41,760
which is a database and online web tool

199
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,340
that will increase
accessibility and usability

200
00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:46,380
of forest inventory data.

201
00:07:46,380 --> 00:07:47,880
And if you wanna learn more about that,

202
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,010
Zana Wolf will be giving a talk about it

203
00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:51,060
in the tools and techniques

204
00:07:51,060 --> 00:07:52,620
contributed talk session this morning.

205
00:07:52,620 --> 00:07:54,070
So be sure to check that out.

206
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,670
This year we also awarded

207
00:07:56,670 --> 00:07:59,250
more than a hundred thousand
dollars in FEMC funding

208
00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:01,650
to six ecosystem monitoring fund projects,

209
00:08:01,650 --> 00:08:03,750
and we're looking forward
to releasing the RFP

210
00:08:03,750 --> 00:08:06,003
for the next round of awards in February.

211
00:08:07,890 --> 00:08:10,080
I also wanna thank our
nine state coordinators

212
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,300
for their work on FEMC projects.

213
00:08:12,300 --> 00:08:13,770
Looking to 2023,

214
00:08:13,770 --> 00:08:15,270
and as Justin mentioned,

215
00:08:15,270 --> 00:08:17,250
we will continue last
year's regional project

216
00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:20,340
monitoring the impact of
recreation on forest ecosystems

217
00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:22,650
and we'll be starting
a new regional project

218
00:08:22,650 --> 00:08:24,570
examining how trends in tree mortality

219
00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:26,940
interact with forest disturbances.

220
00:08:26,940 --> 00:08:29,250
We will also be continuing
to develop and deliver

221
00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:30,873
state specific projects.

222
00:08:32,310 --> 00:08:34,800
There are also several new
developments in the FEMC

223
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,450
that I wanted to share.

224
00:08:36,450 --> 00:08:39,150
So, shortly after I stepped
into the director position,

225
00:08:39,150 --> 00:08:42,060
Elissa Schuett accepted our
new program manager position

226
00:08:42,060 --> 00:08:44,340
and we're thrilled to
have her in that role.

227
00:08:44,340 --> 00:08:47,880
Elissa has expertise in
both ecological research

228
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,410
and stakeholder engagement,

229
00:08:49,410 --> 00:08:51,390
with experience doing long-term monitoring

230
00:08:51,390 --> 00:08:52,650
in a range of ecosystems

231
00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:54,810
from temperate forest to
arctic aquatic systems.

232
00:08:54,810 --> 00:08:56,160
And she told me before this talk

233
00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,230
that that does not even
begin to scratch the surface

234
00:08:58,230 --> 00:09:02,510
of the range of ecosystems
that she's worked in.

235
00:09:02,510 --> 00:09:04,290
In addition to her academic background

236
00:09:04,290 --> 00:09:06,120
in biology and applied ecology,

237
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,070
Elissa is trained in
science communication,

238
00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:09,480
impact and evaluation,

239
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,220
and community engagement.

240
00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:12,540
Before joining the FEMC,

241
00:09:12,540 --> 00:09:14,220
she worked as the communications manager

242
00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:16,410
and research coordinator for
Lake Champlain SEA Grant.

243
00:09:16,410 --> 00:09:19,413
So clearly there's a SEA
grant to FEMC pipeline,

244
00:09:20,549 --> 00:09:21,382
and we thank SEA Grant

245
00:09:21,382 --> 00:09:24,693
for all of their donations
of staff to our staff.

246
00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:26,820
She also worked for

247
00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:28,680
the Northeastern States
Research Cooperative

248
00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:30,974
and Watersheds Consulting associates.

249
00:09:30,974 --> 00:09:34,050
Elissa first joined the FEMC team in 2020.

250
00:09:34,050 --> 00:09:35,400
That's why it says we sort of welcome her.

251
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:36,450
We're very excited to have her.

252
00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:37,863
She's just already here.

253
00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:40,530
She was our community manager,

254
00:09:40,530 --> 00:09:43,290
and then most recently has
served as the interim director.

255
00:09:43,290 --> 00:09:46,170
And thank you so much
for that work Elissa.

256
00:09:46,170 --> 00:09:47,460
We're really excited to leverage

257
00:09:47,460 --> 00:09:48,660
this new leadership structure

258
00:09:48,660 --> 00:09:50,460
to increase our capacity for outreach

259
00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:52,080
and expansion of the network,

260
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,640
and Elissa and I are looking forward

261
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,700
to thinking creatively about
how we can continue to broaden

262
00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:58,230
FEMC's reach and impact

263
00:09:58,230 --> 00:09:59,973
over the coming year and beyond.

264
00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:01,733
At the same time,

265
00:10:01,733 --> 00:10:03,300
we have a member of our staff

266
00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:05,790
who will soon be moving on from FEMC.

267
00:10:05,790 --> 00:10:08,160
In fact, today's her last day.

268
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,170
Alyx Belisle, our data archivist,

269
00:10:10,170 --> 00:10:11,520
has accepted a position

270
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,070
with the Vermont Department
of Environmental Conservation

271
00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:15,780
after three years with us.

272
00:10:15,780 --> 00:10:17,970
We've been really lucky
to have her for so long,

273
00:10:17,970 --> 00:10:19,290
helping to maintain and improve

274
00:10:19,290 --> 00:10:21,540
our data storage and management systems,

275
00:10:21,540 --> 00:10:23,580
and jumping in to to learn how to

276
00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:26,640
troubleshoot issues with
meteorological stations.

277
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,080
She has lots of great stories about that.

278
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,384
You should be sure to ask
her if you find her today.

279
00:10:30,384 --> 00:10:32,681
And a lot more than that, too.

280
00:10:32,681 --> 00:10:35,160
So Alyx, thank you for your dedication,

281
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,200
for your energy, for your hard work,

282
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,453
and we wish you the
best in your next step.

283
00:10:40,830 --> 00:10:42,360
We also have several state coordinators

284
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,370
who have retired or
moved on to new positions

285
00:10:44,370 --> 00:10:45,203
in the past year,

286
00:10:45,203 --> 00:10:46,980
including Jerry Carlson in New York,

287
00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:48,390
John Horton in New Hampshire,

288
00:10:48,390 --> 00:10:49,980
and Jeff Ward in Connecticut.

289
00:10:49,980 --> 00:10:52,680
Although we've somehow gotten
to continue to work with Jeff,

290
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:53,940
even after his retirement,

291
00:10:53,940 --> 00:10:55,080
we hope he'll keep doing that.

292
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,420
But we're not holding our breath.

293
00:10:57,420 --> 00:10:59,370
We thank all three of
them for their work with

294
00:10:59,370 --> 00:11:01,638
and support of the FEMC.

295
00:11:01,638 --> 00:11:04,413
Behind all of this our funders

296
00:11:04,413 --> 00:11:07,740
continue to provide an impressive
commitment to the effort,

297
00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:10,800
which in turn allows us to
leverage funding for more sources

298
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,750
for additional projects.

299
00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:14,850
Thank you for this ongoing support.

300
00:11:14,850 --> 00:11:17,190
This year, we especially
wanna recognize Senator Leahy,

301
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:20,010
who has provided tremendous
support for the FEMC

302
00:11:20,010 --> 00:11:20,880
for many years,

303
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,110
and who will be deeply missed

304
00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:24,060
when he retires very soon.

305
00:11:24,060 --> 00:11:26,400
I think it's evidence of
his commitment to FEMC,

306
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,440
that he sent us a video
to share with you today.

307
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,180
So I'm gonna play that.

308
00:11:30,180 --> 00:11:31,830
I'm very pleased to be speaking

309
00:11:31,830 --> 00:11:36,830
to the Forest Ecosystem
Monitoring Cooperative 2022.

310
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,520
This conference has one of
my last Vermont speeches

311
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,680
as a US Senator,

312
00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:44,700
but the work you do

313
00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:46,080
is something I've believed in

314
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,330
and supported for decades,

315
00:11:48,330 --> 00:11:50,310
and I wanted to speak here.

316
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:52,680
Your work as scientists

317
00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,053
has helped my work as a legislator.

318
00:11:56,190 --> 00:11:57,660
In the late 1980s,

319
00:11:57,660 --> 00:12:01,080
it became clear we didn't fully understand

320
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,900
the conditions and the pace of change

321
00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:08,643
in Northern Forest across
northern New England and New York.

322
00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:12,180
More and more land was being developed,

323
00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:16,590
large timber holdings were
being broken apart and sold.

324
00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:18,720
So in 1988,

325
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,040
one of my good friends,

326
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,263
Senator Warren Rudman in New Hampshire,

327
00:12:23,550 --> 00:12:26,370
I sponsored with him

328
00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:28,920
legislation directing

329
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,160
the National Forest Service to study

330
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:33,600
and report to Congress

331
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,120
on the condition of the forest

332
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,120
across Northern New York,
Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine.

333
00:12:42,810 --> 00:12:46,080
We were one Republican and one Democrat

334
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,353
saying this goes way beyond politics.

335
00:12:50,460 --> 00:12:55,073
And the Northern Forest Land
Study was published in 1990.

336
00:12:55,073 --> 00:12:58,200
And it identified both threats to,

337
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,810
but also opportunities for,

338
00:13:00,810 --> 00:13:02,133
the Northern Forest.

339
00:13:03,570 --> 00:13:05,160
That study made it clear to me

340
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,500
that we needed a much better understanding

341
00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:10,323
of forest resources and the ecosystems.

342
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,910
We needed more information about
how the forest was changing

343
00:13:14,910 --> 00:13:16,503
if we were going to protect it.

344
00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:18,750
So with that in mind,

345
00:13:18,750 --> 00:13:22,850
I worked to establish the
Vermont Monitoring Cooperative

346
00:13:22,850 --> 00:13:24,123
in 1990.

347
00:13:25,182 --> 00:13:27,240
Later, with my full support,

348
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,820
it was expanded to work regionally

349
00:13:29,820 --> 00:13:31,535
across the region

350
00:13:31,535 --> 00:13:35,223
as the Forest Ecosystem
Monitoring Cooperative,

351
00:13:36,330 --> 00:13:39,903
as we'd envisioned in the
Northern Vermont land study.

352
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,110
This study helped me know what best work

353
00:13:46,110 --> 00:13:48,250
to use on land conservation

354
00:13:49,140 --> 00:13:51,540
and northern forest economies.

355
00:13:51,540 --> 00:13:52,860
And I needed that knowledge

356
00:13:52,860 --> 00:13:55,180
as I pushed for the Forest Legacy Act

357
00:13:56,070 --> 00:13:58,060
and the Community Open Space Act

358
00:13:59,070 --> 00:14:01,473
in the Northern Border
Regional Commission.

359
00:14:02,370 --> 00:14:06,423
Another legislation I point to with pride.

360
00:14:07,587 --> 00:14:09,140
In the late 1980s,

361
00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:12,210
we were most concerned with acid rain,

362
00:14:12,210 --> 00:14:14,820
and threats for accelerating
land development

363
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:17,103
and declining forest economy base.

364
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,533
30 years ago,

365
00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:22,500
I couldn't imagine how quickly

366
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,540
the emerging threat of climate
change would accelerate

367
00:14:26,460 --> 00:14:29,070
or of the devastating toll

368
00:14:29,070 --> 00:14:32,373
that invasive species would
take in the coming decades.

369
00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:38,490
We can only anticipate and
respond to new challenges if,

370
00:14:38,490 --> 00:14:41,760
if we understand the condition

371
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,253
and ecosystem of the Northern forest.

372
00:14:45,630 --> 00:14:47,310
That is why

373
00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:51,330
I am so proud of your
ecosystem monitoring work

374
00:14:51,330 --> 00:14:52,773
and why it's so important.

375
00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:55,833
I can't thank you enough for what you do.

376
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,640
But I also want to thank
the US Forest Service.

377
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,663
You've shepherded Forest
Ecosystem Monitoring Cooperative,

378
00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:06,483
your support's been critical,

379
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,320
along with the assistance
of state foresters

380
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,120
across the region

381
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,923
and the University of Vermont.

382
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:18,393
So let's keep this tradition
of cooperation going.

383
00:15:19,252 --> 00:15:22,350
I've included funding for the cooperative

384
00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:25,623
in the FY 2023 budget.

385
00:15:26,460 --> 00:15:29,400
I want it to pass because I'm confident

386
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,620
that your research work is
so important and valuable

387
00:15:33,510 --> 00:15:36,720
and that way the Forest
Ecosystem Monitoring Cooperative

388
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,010
will continue its work
for many years to come.

389
00:15:41,010 --> 00:15:42,843
Marcell and I wish you the best.

390
00:15:46,568 --> 00:15:49,568
(audience clapping)

391
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:56,130
So we have a full day
of activities for you.

392
00:15:56,130 --> 00:15:58,077
So I don't wanna take up much more time.

393
00:15:58,077 --> 00:15:59,850
The last thing I wanna mention

394
00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:02,340
before we move on to the plenary speaker

395
00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:05,850
is that this meeting is approved
for three SAFCFE credits.

396
00:16:05,850 --> 00:16:07,260
So if you wanna receive credits

397
00:16:07,260 --> 00:16:09,000
and haven't already signed up for that,

398
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,860
please do be sure to fill
out the sign-in sheet

399
00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:11,940
at the registration table

400
00:16:11,940 --> 00:16:13,590
and then we'll have the
certificate ready for you

401
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:15,510
at the end of the day.

402
00:16:15,510 --> 00:16:16,650
Okay, enough about us,

403
00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:18,650
it's time to shift gears to the plenary.

404
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,260
I'm thrilled to welcome
Dr. Colin Byer to the stage

405
00:16:22,260 --> 00:16:24,390
as our plenary speaker for today.

406
00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:27,660
Colin is an associate professor
of ecology at SUNY ESF

407
00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:30,000
and has long been an
engaged partner of FEMC,

408
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:30,833
including serving

409
00:16:30,833 --> 00:16:33,420
on the New York State
Partnership Committee.

410
00:16:33,420 --> 00:16:35,029
He's a broadly trained ecologist,

411
00:16:35,029 --> 00:16:37,650
interested in the fate
of forest ecosystems

412
00:16:37,650 --> 00:16:38,483
and landscapes,

413
00:16:38,483 --> 00:16:39,316
including people

414
00:16:39,316 --> 00:16:42,150
and our economic, political,
and cultural institutions

415
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:43,980
in a rapidly changing world.

416
00:16:43,980 --> 00:16:45,870
He holds a PhD in systems ecology

417
00:16:45,870 --> 00:16:47,610
from the University of Alaska Fairbanks,

418
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:50,793
and a master from Virginia
Tech in Forest Ecology.

419
00:16:51,690 --> 00:16:52,950
Since 2018,

420
00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:54,480
Colin has served as lead PI

421
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,220
of long-term ecosystem monitoring

422
00:16:56,220 --> 00:16:58,380
at Huntington Forest in the Adirondacks,

423
00:16:58,380 --> 00:17:01,170
one of the original
cohort of NADP site sites

424
00:17:01,170 --> 00:17:03,150
started in 1978,

425
00:17:03,150 --> 00:17:03,983
and as Director

426
00:17:03,983 --> 00:17:06,930
of the Climate and Applied
Forest Research Institute.

427
00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:08,100
Colin is a core member

428
00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:10,530
of ESF Center for Native
Peoples in the environment,

429
00:17:10,530 --> 00:17:12,900
led by Dr. Robin Kimmer,

430
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:14,700
and an affiliate fellow of UVM's

431
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,290
Gun Institute for Environment.

432
00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:18,090
He resides with his family in Syracuse

433
00:17:18,090 --> 00:17:21,420
on unceded territory
of the Onondaga nation.

434
00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:23,610
As we think about the theme
of this year's conference,

435
00:17:23,610 --> 00:17:25,590
exploring the role of
innovation and technology

436
00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:27,300
in advancing forest science,

437
00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:29,910
Colin's talk provides
a moment of reflection.

438
00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:32,790
Technology can facilitate
analyses at large scales

439
00:17:32,790 --> 00:17:34,290
and faster speeds.

440
00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:35,520
It can provide a new way

441
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,350
of literally looking at the forest

442
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:40,170
as so many of the advances
in remote sensing have,

443
00:17:40,170 --> 00:17:41,642
it can enable new conversation

444
00:17:41,642 --> 00:17:44,340
and new modes of communication.

445
00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:46,410
But in all of that
excitement and innovation,

446
00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:48,690
there's also room for healthy skepticism

447
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:50,040
and the the need to carefully consider

448
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:51,870
how, why, and when

449
00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:54,810
we use the newest, shiniest technologies.

450
00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:56,880
Colin is a creative and critical scholar

451
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,370
thinking deeply about both the
promise and the limitations

452
00:17:59,370 --> 00:18:01,140
of new and emerging technology.

453
00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:03,630
So does with pleasure that
I welcome him for his talk

454
00:18:03,630 --> 00:18:05,700
titled The Role of Emerging Technology

455
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:07,770
in Forest Science, Ecosystem Stewardship,

456
00:18:07,770 --> 00:18:09,821
and Stakeholder Engagement.

457
00:18:09,821 --> 00:18:12,821
(audience clapping)

458
00:18:13,748 --> 00:18:16,498
(audio cuts out)

459
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:21,840
Everybody, thank you for having me.

460
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,123
Thank you Elissa and Allison.

461
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,670
Alright, so, we'll just
jump right into this here.

462
00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:30,960
Again, I'm very grateful to be here.

463
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,180
It's nice to be back in Burlington

464
00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:34,710
and this beautiful space,

465
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:36,370
beautiful sunrise this morning

466
00:18:37,380 --> 00:18:38,553
out over the greens.

467
00:18:39,450 --> 00:18:42,150
And thank you again for having me.

468
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:43,530
And, as you may have noticed,

469
00:18:43,530 --> 00:18:44,580
this is all home cooking.

470
00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:46,770
I was part of the organizing committee.

471
00:18:46,770 --> 00:18:48,870
So you know, they were like,
hey, you wanna do this?

472
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:49,913
I was like, okay.

473
00:18:51,570 --> 00:18:53,610
So there's a lot of things
we've been thinking about,

474
00:18:53,610 --> 00:18:56,253
and actually Alison said
it much more eloquently,

475
00:18:57,390 --> 00:19:00,750
but I wanna start with
talking about Moore's Law.

476
00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:01,583
I don't know how many of you

477
00:19:01,583 --> 00:19:03,870
might be familiar with Moore's Law.

478
00:19:03,870 --> 00:19:06,720
This is named after a gentleman who

479
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,810
was involved in the
invention of the microchip.

480
00:19:09,810 --> 00:19:13,053
And Moore basically said, you know,

481
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:16,020
there's going to be a doubling

482
00:19:16,020 --> 00:19:18,180
of microchip processing capacity

483
00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:19,740
every one to two years.

484
00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:24,740
And we've seen that play
out for five decades now.

485
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,860
This is exponential growth

486
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,160
in computing power

487
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,300
for five decades.

488
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:32,040
We're now going into a sixth decade

489
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,380
of exponential growth and computing power.

490
00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:36,240
That's pretty remarkable.

491
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,170
Obviously it's revolutionized
so many things, right?

492
00:19:40,170 --> 00:19:41,220
But has it,

493
00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:43,720
how has it changed our
relationship with the land?

494
00:19:44,610 --> 00:19:47,730
That is kind of the fundamental question

495
00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:49,983
that I think we're interested in today.

496
00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:53,460
It's really, really remarkable.

497
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:54,540
It's especially poignant,

498
00:19:54,540 --> 00:19:55,980
as I mentioned to some of you recently,

499
00:19:55,980 --> 00:19:58,785
we just learned that Micron,

500
00:19:58,785 --> 00:20:01,530
the major chip manufacturer

501
00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:03,870
is gonna be putting a 50 billion plant

502
00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:05,463
20 minutes north of Syracuse.

503
00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:10,080
This is a game changer for a
rust belt town like Syracuse.

504
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,403
And it's gonna be both
exciting and a little scary.

505
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:18,000
Some say Moore's law is failing.

506
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,950
Some say I'm looking at Mike,

507
00:20:19,950 --> 00:20:21,993
who probably knows better than I do.

508
00:20:22,936 --> 00:20:24,960
Some say will it continue to hold?

509
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,680
Or will we see an
asymptote in this growth?

510
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,510
But again, know that
this exponential growth

511
00:20:30,510 --> 00:20:31,810
on that y axis,

512
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:33,900
this is a logarithmic axis

513
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:35,880
in terms of processing power.

514
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,720
There's chips in everything now.

515
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,190
But our question is really about

516
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:43,500
how has this growth translated

517
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:45,660
to advances in forest ecosystem science.

518
00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:47,760
Whether we're talking about measurement,

519
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,300
monitoring, modeling, stewardship,

520
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:53,400
and really education, outreach,

521
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,960
and engagement with audiences.

522
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:55,800
I think most,

523
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,660
if not all of us know

524
00:20:57,660 --> 00:21:01,440
that we struggle to reach audiences

525
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,970
that have an affinity forests,

526
00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:05,940
or sometimes have a fear of forests,

527
00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:08,370
but that have a fundamental need,

528
00:21:08,370 --> 00:21:11,310
and would benefit from understanding

529
00:21:11,310 --> 00:21:12,720
how forests function,

530
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,460
how they benefit people,

531
00:21:14,460 --> 00:21:17,070
how they benefit the planet,

532
00:21:17,070 --> 00:21:17,903
right?

533
00:21:17,903 --> 00:21:19,770
And, and some of the difficult

534
00:21:19,770 --> 00:21:21,210
decisions that we have to make,

535
00:21:21,210 --> 00:21:23,700
especially is Senator Leahy pointed out,

536
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,410
which is pretty eloquent.

537
00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:27,510
All the challenges that our forests face.

538
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:29,280
We are at a point

539
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,220
where we are counting on forests

540
00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:34,770
to save us from climate change.

541
00:21:34,770 --> 00:21:36,690
And at least in this part of the world,

542
00:21:36,690 --> 00:21:38,400
they have never been

543
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,710
more beset on all sides

544
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:42,030
by the inequities of,

545
00:21:42,030 --> 00:21:43,590
whatever, I won't go down that road,

546
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:44,640
you know what I mean.

547
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,880
So, but to a answer this question

548
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,650
I really wanted to think about,

549
00:21:49,650 --> 00:21:52,320
and I couldn't find this
and maybe it's out there,

550
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,350
but a history of forest
measurements technology,

551
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:57,840
or a history of technology
in forest science.

552
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,030
And so this is totally just mine.

553
00:22:00,030 --> 00:22:01,680
I just threw this together

554
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,780
a tremendous amount of Wikipedia,

555
00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:06,300
which, take that with a grain of salt,

556
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:07,560
right?

557
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,183
I feel like I'm,

558
00:22:10,170 --> 00:22:12,120
Lord Kelvin is quoted as saying,

559
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,340
if you cannot measure it,
you cannot improve it.

560
00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:15,540
I feel like I'm channeling

561
00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:17,910
some of my silviculture
and forestry professors,

562
00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:19,260
and some of my colleagues

563
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:21,333
across the hall in Syracuse.

564
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:24,330
But I put this together,

565
00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:25,260
and just, you know,

566
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:26,907
we're going back to 1889

567
00:22:26,907 --> 00:22:29,100
and that is an increment borer,

568
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:32,880
which was actually introduced
in the World's Fair of 1889

569
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,530
and was actually a big deal.

570
00:22:34,530 --> 00:22:35,711
Can you imagine that?

571
00:22:35,711 --> 00:22:37,680
It was the peak of people's excitements

572
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,153
about increment boring.

573
00:22:39,153 --> 00:22:39,990
(audience laughing)

574
00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:42,240
But it was known as the Pressler,

575
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,013
it was just known as the Pressler.

576
00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:46,980
But we've got the Clinometer,

577
00:22:46,980 --> 00:22:48,030
the Biltmore Stick,

578
00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:49,653
which is arguably the,

579
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,163
you know, Pinchot and others.

580
00:22:54,270 --> 00:22:57,000
Pinchot and Schenck invented that.

581
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,300
And we had the Pocket Transit Compass,

582
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:02,167
aerial photography was developed,

583
00:23:02,167 --> 00:23:05,433
Bitterlich was an interesting character,

584
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,210
invented plotless sampling
with the angle gauge,

585
00:23:09,210 --> 00:23:11,550
which then was followed
by the wedge prism.

586
00:23:11,550 --> 00:23:14,880
Densiometers, we started to
get into some laser technology,

587
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,830
the basis for LIDAR, right?

588
00:23:16,830 --> 00:23:18,690
The laser range finder,

589
00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:20,490
of course satellite imagery,

590
00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:22,647
which we'll talk more about, GPS.

591
00:23:22,647 --> 00:23:27,120
We started to put LIDAR sensors
on aircraft in the nineties

592
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,690
and I've got 1998 for
terrestrial laser scanning here,

593
00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:32,130
even though it hasn't really,

594
00:23:32,130 --> 00:23:35,400
we're still early in that
application for forestry,

595
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:36,630
but it has been around.

596
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:38,700
And of course UAVs for civilian use

597
00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,610
which Arlith is an expert on.

598
00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:43,706
And my animation didn't quite work,

599
00:23:43,706 --> 00:23:44,539
'cause I was gonna ask you,

600
00:23:44,539 --> 00:23:45,780
what's the thing that's missing?

601
00:23:45,780 --> 00:23:46,860
And then it was gonna pop up.

602
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:48,150
I was gonna be all smart about it.

603
00:23:48,150 --> 00:23:51,150
But, of course the loggers tape,

604
00:23:51,150 --> 00:23:52,110
the diameter's tape,

605
00:23:52,110 --> 00:23:53,850
and we have to give credit
to three people for that.

606
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:57,393
First of all, Archimedes
for pinning down pie. 3.14.

607
00:23:58,740 --> 00:24:01,320
And then an English
gentleman named Chesterman

608
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,657
invented a metal tape in 1821.

609
00:24:03,657 --> 00:24:05,880
And an American named Fellows

610
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,410
actually put it in a circular case

611
00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:08,793
with a locking mechanism,

612
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:13,380
which of course those always break, but,

613
00:24:13,380 --> 00:24:16,320
so I would say that a
summary of this would be

614
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,090
that forestry hasn't been tech averse,

615
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:21,840
but it's also, if it
ain't broke, don't fix it.

616
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,430
Right?

617
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:25,230
How many people still use transect tapes

618
00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:27,510
instead of laser range finders?

619
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:29,100
You know it, right?

620
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:30,600
There's, these things are,

621
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,200
there's some familiarity with those things

622
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,369
that are,

623
00:24:35,369 --> 00:24:38,220
there's a reliability
in in what you can hold.

624
00:24:38,220 --> 00:24:41,250
And I think that that speaks
to some of the culture.

625
00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:43,050
And again, maybe this
is a bit more reflective

626
00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:45,870
of the culture of forestry,
forest management,

627
00:24:45,870 --> 00:24:47,550
than forest ecosystem science,

628
00:24:47,550 --> 00:24:51,180
but of course they have very common roots.

629
00:24:51,180 --> 00:24:52,714
I also found this paper

630
00:24:52,714 --> 00:24:55,020
from a few years ago in Ecosphere.

631
00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:58,203
I'm not a big fan of
the graphic itself, but,

632
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,070
which has this kind of
techno-ecological timeline

633
00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:03,840
and futurecast,

634
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,450
I don't know why forecast isn't
a good enough word anymore,

635
00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:10,350
but futurecast, basically looking at

636
00:25:10,350 --> 00:25:13,740
how we've moved through and, there's,

637
00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:15,750
the figure doesn't reflect.

638
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:17,640
There is some really nice thoughtful

639
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,170
discussion and examples

640
00:25:19,170 --> 00:25:20,520
of how some of this technology,

641
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,520
especially as we move into the future,

642
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,120
might be implemented

643
00:25:25,980 --> 00:25:28,860
in ecological research and monitoring.

644
00:25:28,860 --> 00:25:30,990
And so I encourage you to
take a look at that paper,

645
00:25:30,990 --> 00:25:34,470
it's open access in the Ecosphere,

646
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:37,200
but you can see that since the fifties

647
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,040
we've come a long way.

648
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,200
But arguably would say,

649
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,130
obviously these advances
in computing capacity

650
00:25:44,130 --> 00:25:48,120
have allowed for a lot of
this technological advancement

651
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:49,860
in ecological sciences.

652
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:52,050
But I would say certainly
in the forest world,

653
00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:55,500
we aren't exactly racing
ahead to embrace those things

654
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:57,033
until perhaps recently.

655
00:25:58,230 --> 00:26:00,840
So, we had a lot of big
questions around this,

656
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,910
and really, I'm gonna be clear,

657
00:26:02,910 --> 00:26:04,950
I don't have answers to these questions.

658
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:06,033
Our panel does.

659
00:26:07,315 --> 00:26:09,930
And, so we'll be talking with them soon,

660
00:26:09,930 --> 00:26:12,120
but I want to raise them
and then, and then bring it,

661
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,410
maybe flesh them out,

662
00:26:13,410 --> 00:26:15,723
and share my thoughts in a few places, so.

663
00:26:16,650 --> 00:26:17,640
So, one of the questions is,

664
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:18,473
does the new tech

665
00:26:18,473 --> 00:26:20,700
actually just yield better
data, better results

666
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:21,533
than we already have?

667
00:26:21,533 --> 00:26:23,820
You might even say better outcomes.

668
00:26:23,820 --> 00:26:25,320
That's a bigger question.

669
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,270
Or is it kind of a shiny toy?

670
00:26:27,270 --> 00:26:29,400
Is it a distraction

671
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,250
from our fundamental gaps in knowledge,

672
00:26:32,250 --> 00:26:34,620
or our inability to
engage broader audiences?

673
00:26:34,620 --> 00:26:38,370
So, we get excited about
that, that new shiny thing,

674
00:26:38,370 --> 00:26:41,460
but are we really, is it
really moving the needle?

675
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:44,013
Is it really changing the game?

676
00:26:45,450 --> 00:26:47,010
How will the new technology

677
00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:48,510
interface with existing protocols?

678
00:26:48,510 --> 00:26:50,490
Especially for measurement.

679
00:26:50,490 --> 00:26:51,720
I'll talk about this in,

680
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,640
when we talk about
terrestrial laser scanning,

681
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,760
and actually quantifying
the volume of trees

682
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,860
instead of using allometric equations,

683
00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:00,990
which the entire FIA system

684
00:27:00,990 --> 00:27:05,130
in most forest inventory
systems are based on.

685
00:27:05,130 --> 00:27:07,590
How do we, do we need a new framework?

686
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:10,590
Do we toss out the old, how
do we transition between them?

687
00:27:10,590 --> 00:27:12,120
Is the upheaval worth it?

688
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:14,850
We also have to avoid
that sunk cost fallacy,

689
00:27:14,850 --> 00:27:16,920
'cause that inhibits progress, right?

690
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,240
And we do want to make progress

691
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,840
and there's the need to make it.

692
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:23,220
And quite skeptically,

693
00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:24,780
how do we actually parse reality

694
00:27:24,780 --> 00:27:26,520
from the sales pitches

695
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,080
that are out there for the technology,

696
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,960
for the firms that are
implementing the technology.

697
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,910
This is, I've seen this especially for,

698
00:27:32,910 --> 00:27:36,060
for precision forestry,
which we'll talk about.

699
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:39,570
And it's not to cast dispersions
on any of these folks,

700
00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:42,000
but they are in business to make money

701
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,727
and they do have account people, right?

702
00:27:44,727 --> 00:27:48,640
And so they make very
compelling sales pitches

703
00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:51,720
that I think the average forest landowner

704
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,423
might not really be prepared to evaluate,

705
00:27:55,380 --> 00:27:57,330
even if the tech does
fully deliver though,

706
00:27:57,330 --> 00:27:58,230
is it scalable?

707
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:59,550
Is it versatile?

708
00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:01,620
How practical is it really?

709
00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:05,010
Does it give us landscape
level applications,

710
00:28:05,010 --> 00:28:06,300
or are we going to have a lot of

711
00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:07,410
different information out there?

712
00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:09,600
And I think we're all accustomed to

713
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,240
being overwhelmed with information, right?

714
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,273
And see the impact that
that can sometimes have.

715
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,630
So, I found this as well

716
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:20,580
within the venture capital
and the tech world,

717
00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:22,800
which is this Gartner Hype cycle.

718
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,390
I have to point out as a
professor, this is not a cycle.

719
00:28:26,390 --> 00:28:28,770
(audience laughing)

720
00:28:28,770 --> 00:28:30,663
It doesn't loop back again.

721
00:28:31,650 --> 00:28:32,483
However,

722
00:28:32,483 --> 00:28:33,570
I didn't want to change the name of it

723
00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:35,640
because it's not really my idea, but it,

724
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,500
but I thought it was a unifying concept

725
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:39,210
and something useful for us to think about

726
00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:40,740
in terms of technology.

727
00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:42,570
There's a trigger,

728
00:28:42,570 --> 00:28:44,910
there's a peak of inflated expectations,

729
00:28:44,910 --> 00:28:45,743
these names are great.

730
00:28:45,743 --> 00:28:47,695
There's a trough of disillusionment.

731
00:28:47,695 --> 00:28:48,528
(audience laughing)

732
00:28:48,528 --> 00:28:50,040
There's a slope of enlightenment,

733
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,140
and a plateau of productivity,

734
00:28:52,140 --> 00:28:55,050
if this last one will pop up, there it is.

735
00:28:55,050 --> 00:28:56,310
Right?

736
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:58,440
So every technology goes through these

737
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,350
and they've specified this a lot more.

738
00:29:01,350 --> 00:29:04,260
So we don't need to get
into this in great detail,

739
00:29:04,260 --> 00:29:07,140
but this does kind of start to break down

740
00:29:07,140 --> 00:29:08,460
this kind of process.

741
00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:10,080
And again, life cycle,

742
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,340
it's not really a cycle,

743
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:12,390
but that's the idea.

744
00:29:12,390 --> 00:29:15,120
This process that we go
through with new technology,

745
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,660
there's this development,
it's exciting, right?

746
00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:20,940
There's this build, everybody's
optimistic about it,

747
00:29:20,940 --> 00:29:22,830
then people try to implement it, right?

748
00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:25,140
And there's kind of a
collapse in optimism,

749
00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:26,040
or application,

750
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,650
and then things start to reorganize a bit,

751
00:29:28,650 --> 00:29:30,660
and we start to move towards a place

752
00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:32,490
where it can be productive

753
00:29:32,490 --> 00:29:34,230
and where you start to see

754
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:37,380
the adoption of the technology broadly.

755
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:39,930
And so I thought it was a useful concept.

756
00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:41,780
There are hype cycles for everything.

757
00:29:43,020 --> 00:29:44,130
Precision ag,

758
00:29:44,130 --> 00:29:46,944
which is kind of a predecessor
to precision forestry,

759
00:29:46,944 --> 00:29:49,320
for climate technology,

760
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,870
our climate tech for
artificial intelligence,

761
00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:53,340
and machine learning,

762
00:29:53,340 --> 00:29:55,770
you might even say there's
a hype cycle for this talk,

763
00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:56,603
right?

764
00:29:56,603 --> 00:29:59,370
Those of you came in with
inflated expectations

765
00:29:59,370 --> 00:30:02,463
are now staring down into
the abyss of disillusionment.

766
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:06,924
But our panel will carry us
up the slope of enlightenment.

767
00:30:06,924 --> 00:30:07,757
(audience laughing)

768
00:30:07,757 --> 00:30:08,590
So sorry, I had to do it.

769
00:30:09,630 --> 00:30:10,463
So again,

770
00:30:10,463 --> 00:30:11,430
back to these questions,

771
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:12,660
which I've already talked about.

772
00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:15,150
But these are an
encapsulation of the questions

773
00:30:15,150 --> 00:30:18,522
that we talked a lot about
with the organizing committee.

774
00:30:18,522 --> 00:30:23,370
And, I want to just briefly
apply them in three spaces.

775
00:30:23,370 --> 00:30:24,933
One to remote monitoring,

776
00:30:26,430 --> 00:30:30,240
to precision forestry, and
to forest visualization.

777
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,010
And so these are areas

778
00:30:32,010 --> 00:30:34,930
that our panelists have expertise in

779
00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:38,070
and experience with,

780
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:40,533
and can all speak to.

781
00:30:41,610 --> 00:30:44,640
And some areas where
I've thought about this,

782
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,920
I think hopefully you have as well.

783
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,270
So, with remote sensing, right?

784
00:30:51,270 --> 00:30:54,660
We're talking about monitoring
forests from afar, right?

785
00:30:54,660 --> 00:30:58,140
And of course technically
drones are remote,

786
00:30:58,140 --> 00:31:02,490
but I'm really talking about
airframes and satellites,

787
00:31:02,490 --> 00:31:03,513
okay?

788
00:31:03,513 --> 00:31:04,346
In this case,

789
00:31:04,346 --> 00:31:06,480
and I'm just showing on the left here,

790
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,110
you know, the satellites
from the US, and from NASA,

791
00:31:10,110 --> 00:31:13,260
and from ESA, the European Space Agency,

792
00:31:13,260 --> 00:31:15,570
there are many others, but
these are the primary ones.

793
00:31:15,570 --> 00:31:19,920
The Sentinel Group, the
Landsat series, IceSat,

794
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,920
Jedi, which is LIDAR,
basically on the space station,

795
00:31:24,930 --> 00:31:28,830
and the new biomass satellite
that ESA is sending up.

796
00:31:28,830 --> 00:31:31,110
Which I'm told will only capture data

797
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:34,710
between 50 degrees
latitude north and south.

798
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:36,960
And I was told on a webinar recently,

799
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:37,793
that's not a big deal,

800
00:31:37,793 --> 00:31:38,910
'cause there's not that much forest

801
00:31:38,910 --> 00:31:40,353
above 50 degrees latitude.

802
00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:44,472
And I said, have you heard
of the Boreal Forest?

803
00:31:44,472 --> 00:31:45,900
(audience laughing)

804
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:48,690
There's, it's kind of the
biggest one in the world.

805
00:31:48,690 --> 00:31:51,900
But anyways, so what's
powerful about this technology

806
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,851
is we're constantly observing
the Earth's surface.

807
00:31:54,851 --> 00:31:57,180
And on, on the right here,

808
00:31:57,180 --> 00:31:58,013
what I'm showing

809
00:31:58,013 --> 00:32:01,050
is basically a sequence that
we've taken from the folks at,

810
00:32:01,050 --> 00:32:03,423
at the E Mapper group in Oregon State,

811
00:32:04,350 --> 00:32:05,820
and how Land Trender,

812
00:32:05,820 --> 00:32:07,560
which is an algorithm they've developed,

813
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,360
helps you bring together,

814
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,640
and kind of make sense

815
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,860
of these stacks of images through time

816
00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:16,770
so we can trace how things
are changing through time.

817
00:32:16,770 --> 00:32:19,590
It's a very powerful tool.

818
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:23,010
And of course the other logo
here is Google Earth Engine.

819
00:32:23,010 --> 00:32:26,490
And Google Earth Engine is
a remarkably powerful tool

820
00:32:26,490 --> 00:32:28,050
that is still available for free now,

821
00:32:28,050 --> 00:32:29,037
they're waiting until
we all get hooked on it

822
00:32:29,037 --> 00:32:32,373
and then they're gonna start
a subscription service.

823
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:35,760
What I'm showing here

824
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,320
is actually some of our own work,

825
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,210
this is work that Lucas Johnson,

826
00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:42,000
one of my students is gonna talk about.

827
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,710
Where we, even a group of us

828
00:32:43,710 --> 00:32:45,600
who haven't really spent
a lot of time doing this,

829
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,133
I'm more of a field person,

830
00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:52,320
in a few years, can ramp up and create,

831
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,080
like we have a statewide, you know,

832
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,540
stock change assessment
that's based on maps,

833
00:32:57,540 --> 00:33:00,480
it's based on Landsat,
LIDARs, and other things

834
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:01,530
that we can put together,

835
00:33:01,530 --> 00:33:04,830
and we can track how biomass and carbon

836
00:33:04,830 --> 00:33:07,250
is changing over time at these scales.

837
00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:09,960
So you can see here the
harvesting that took place

838
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,930
once this land changed hands

839
00:33:12,930 --> 00:33:15,600
from Finch Prime, to
the Nature Conservancy,

840
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,640
to a Dutch TMO ATP.

841
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,350
This is the upper Hudson Woodlands,

842
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:20,450
or a portion of it,

843
00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:21,870
in the central Adirondacks,

844
00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:23,823
just adjacent to Huntington Forest.

845
00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:28,410
And there's a lot of questions
about this kind of thing,

846
00:33:28,410 --> 00:33:30,660
but this is where things are headed.

847
00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:32,250
Carbon monitoring systems, right?

848
00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:34,920
We need to be able to
track this at large scales,

849
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,980
but also with fine enough resolution

850
00:33:36,980 --> 00:33:39,830
to be able to do monitoring,
reporting, and verification.

851
00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:41,940
But there's lots of questions.

852
00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:45,150
When we see this peek out, we
know that our models saturate,

853
00:33:45,150 --> 00:33:49,740
we know that Landsat can only
predict such a high biomass

854
00:33:49,740 --> 00:33:50,580
with Landsat data,

855
00:33:50,580 --> 00:33:53,820
'cause it can really
only get so green, right?

856
00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:55,380
So we know our models saturate.

857
00:33:55,380 --> 00:33:56,310
So the question is,

858
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:59,400
did the forest reach its
maximum biomass in this view?

859
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,923
Or did the model hit its ceiling?

860
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,070
These are things we have to look at.

861
00:34:05,070 --> 00:34:07,260
So there's an uncertainty.

862
00:34:07,260 --> 00:34:08,370
We also know,

863
00:34:08,370 --> 00:34:10,110
and this is something
that Lucas will talk about

864
00:34:10,110 --> 00:34:11,940
in his talk today,

865
00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:13,710
the rate of recovery that we see

866
00:34:13,710 --> 00:34:16,110
is probably too fast.

867
00:34:16,110 --> 00:34:18,750
So it greens up before it grows up.

868
00:34:18,750 --> 00:34:20,490
So with Landsat,

869
00:34:20,490 --> 00:34:21,540
we see the greening up,

870
00:34:21,540 --> 00:34:22,373
and it's Landsat's like, oh,

871
00:34:22,373 --> 00:34:23,970
the biomass is coming right back again.

872
00:34:23,970 --> 00:34:26,670
But we know that it doesn't
grow back that quickly.

873
00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:27,780
But with tools like this,

874
00:34:27,780 --> 00:34:30,000
we can distinguish areas of working forest

875
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,830
from areas that are being cleared.

876
00:34:31,830 --> 00:34:34,620
We can observe other types of changes.

877
00:34:34,620 --> 00:34:37,530
And we can compare this working land

878
00:34:37,530 --> 00:34:39,780
to a forest preserve right next to it

879
00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:40,950
where we know that there aren't

880
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:43,200
large logging operations going on.

881
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,777
And so there's a lot of
inference and a lot of tools

882
00:34:45,777 --> 00:34:47,280
and things we can do.

883
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,920
But all of this is facilitated
by the technology, right?

884
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,063
We're just using what others
have built to do this.

885
00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:57,900
So go check out Lucas' talk.

886
00:34:57,900 --> 00:35:00,630
So, we also have robust field inventory,

887
00:35:00,630 --> 00:35:03,198
and groups like FMC are improving that.

888
00:35:03,198 --> 00:35:04,410
But of course we have

889
00:35:04,410 --> 00:35:06,543
the National Forest Inventory or FIA,

890
00:35:07,980 --> 00:35:10,020
which is a phenomenal data set

891
00:35:10,020 --> 00:35:11,760
and a phenomenal system.

892
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,250
I mean, it's a really robust inventory

893
00:35:14,250 --> 00:35:16,830
for earth observation, remote sensing.

894
00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:18,420
That's the EO/RS.

895
00:35:18,420 --> 00:35:19,980
And there's a long-term continuity

896
00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:21,840
in earth observation platforms.

897
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,100
There's standardized products,

898
00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:25,950
like the analysis ready data from Landsat.

899
00:35:25,950 --> 00:35:28,770
There's new earth observation
platforms from NASA and ESA,

900
00:35:28,770 --> 00:35:31,290
several of them focused on forests.

901
00:35:31,290 --> 00:35:34,980
And this allows us to develop
some pretty cost efficient,

902
00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:37,290
near realtime monitoring applications.

903
00:35:37,290 --> 00:35:39,960
Because right now, monitoring,
reporting, and verification

904
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,540
is like randomly select
a group of participants

905
00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:44,040
and roll out to their place,

906
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,821
hope they don't chase
you off with a shotgun,

907
00:35:45,821 --> 00:35:48,111
and check out what they're doing.

908
00:35:48,111 --> 00:35:50,220
This is highly inefficient

909
00:35:50,220 --> 00:35:51,990
and this isn't Justin's fault,

910
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:54,300
but DEC recently got,

911
00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:59,040
you know, audited by our comptroller

912
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,780
who likes to go after everybody.

913
00:36:00,780 --> 00:36:02,580
And, we just found like,

914
00:36:02,580 --> 00:36:05,160
even existing programs that
we have in New York state

915
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,930
are not well monitored just to,

916
00:36:06,930 --> 00:36:08,790
people are being paid
to maintain forest land.

917
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:10,860
They subdivided it and,

918
00:36:10,860 --> 00:36:12,060
hasn't been enforced for 10 years,

919
00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:13,920
and they're still getting a tax credit.

920
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,270
So these technologies

921
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:17,070
immediately level up

922
00:36:17,070 --> 00:36:20,220
the capacity to do these things.

923
00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:22,050
I will note that I talk a lot

924
00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:24,390
with some of the forest
industry in New York

925
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:27,120
and the DEC has been wanting to have

926
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,710
a harvest notification system.

927
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:30,390
And as you might imagine,

928
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:32,660
New York landowners are
not excited about that.

929
00:36:32,660 --> 00:36:33,750
And I said, okay,

930
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:35,400
well then we're gonna have
to watch you from space.

931
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,133
And they're like, okay, just be fair.

932
00:36:39,060 --> 00:36:41,160
Which is work that we're
working on, and this is,

933
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,280
I mentioned Madeline's work in a minute.

934
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,430
But we can always have
better trading data.

935
00:36:47,490 --> 00:36:50,010
There's a lot of signal and
noise issues in these models.

936
00:36:50,010 --> 00:36:51,390
There's a lot of error propagation,

937
00:36:51,390 --> 00:36:55,620
because we're often modeling
on model values, right?

938
00:36:55,620 --> 00:36:56,940
If in an FIA plot,

939
00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:58,560
they take the diameter in
the height of the tree,

940
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,000
and they use an allometric equation

941
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,470
to estimate its biomass,

942
00:37:01,470 --> 00:37:02,730
we're treating that as truth.

943
00:37:02,730 --> 00:37:04,350
There's uncertainty there.

944
00:37:04,350 --> 00:37:06,690
We're often modeling, and
training, and training and,

945
00:37:06,690 --> 00:37:08,220
and it's a process.

946
00:37:08,220 --> 00:37:10,170
So there's a lot of uncertainty,

947
00:37:10,170 --> 00:37:13,410
and maps can hide that uncertainty

948
00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:15,270
because they look so cool, right?

949
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:17,280
The map passes the smell test.

950
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,750
You're like, oh, that must be right.

951
00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:19,980
But there's uncertainty,

952
00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:21,467
and there's error in that,

953
00:37:21,467 --> 00:37:23,400
and we have to be thoughtful about that.

954
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,203
And relatively few groups,

955
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:27,870
not including Jarlath's group,

956
00:37:27,870 --> 00:37:31,323
but relatively few groups assess
the accuracy of their maps.

957
00:37:32,430 --> 00:37:35,913
And that's something that
we really need to push for.

958
00:37:37,860 --> 00:37:39,090
There's an engineering in it,

959
00:37:39,090 --> 00:37:40,710
versus an ecological mindset,

960
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:42,870
and this, in the EO/RS community.

961
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:45,780
And by that I mean engineering
is like, look at what we did.

962
00:37:45,780 --> 00:37:48,903
And ecology is like,
well what does it mean?

963
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,633
Right?

964
00:37:50,633 --> 00:37:52,050
And I think that we need more,

965
00:37:52,050 --> 00:37:53,913
obviously more ecologists,

966
00:37:55,260 --> 00:37:57,687
more thinking about, not what
can we do with this data,

967
00:37:57,687 --> 00:38:00,990
and these tools, but what
does it actually get us?

968
00:38:00,990 --> 00:38:02,703
What does it really mean?

969
00:38:03,870 --> 00:38:05,850
And the last thing I'm gonna mention,

970
00:38:05,850 --> 00:38:08,387
'cause I'm gonna hype up Madeline here,

971
00:38:08,387 --> 00:38:11,910
is the change detection
tools that we have out there

972
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:13,530
are mostly untested

973
00:38:13,530 --> 00:38:17,160
across forest biomes
and management regimes.

974
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,320
And so Madeline published a paper

975
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,650
in Journal of Forestry
as an undergrad, right?

976
00:38:22,650 --> 00:38:23,483
Right.

977
00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:26,880
Where we did some of the
first ground truthing of this.

978
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,010
And this is possible because
of partnerships we have

979
00:38:29,010 --> 00:38:31,080
with working forest landowners

980
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,720
who have given us their
harvest records and data.

981
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,430
This is, many of of you might know

982
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:37,500
this is not easy information to get.

983
00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:40,740
And so they're part of this work too.

984
00:38:40,740 --> 00:38:42,360
And they, they've been incredibly helpful.

985
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,240
So Maddie's gonna talk about that work.

986
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,523
As the keynote I get to
plug all my students.

987
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:50,850
So I have also attempted

988
00:38:50,850 --> 00:38:53,910
to put some things in remote sensing,

989
00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:56,640
and on this hype curve,

990
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,830
just based on my own impressions.

991
00:38:58,830 --> 00:39:00,180
Uh oh Jarlath's taking a picture.

992
00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:03,870
So this, I'm, this is
gonna be recorded forever,

993
00:39:03,870 --> 00:39:06,180
but some of the different
technology as I see it.

994
00:39:06,180 --> 00:39:08,340
And I'm really, I would
really love Jarlath,

995
00:39:08,340 --> 00:39:09,960
for you to correct this

996
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,580
when you have a chance to come up.

997
00:39:11,580 --> 00:39:13,770
We could talk about this,
if it's even worth it,

998
00:39:13,770 --> 00:39:16,410
but where's some of these
different technologies seem to be.

999
00:39:16,410 --> 00:39:17,400
I remember 10 years ago,

1000
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,310
everybody was excited about hyperspectral.

1001
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:22,770
I don't see it being applied that much

1002
00:39:22,770 --> 00:39:24,900
in ecological monitoring and research,

1003
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:27,060
even though it seems like it would have,

1004
00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:30,690
but it seems like it's
kind of crashing a bit.

1005
00:39:30,690 --> 00:39:32,460
I think people are excited about radar,

1006
00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:35,790
but it's still kind of a black box.

1007
00:39:35,790 --> 00:39:38,010
There's a lot of excitement
about the space born LIDAR,

1008
00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:39,450
but that's pretty new.

1009
00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:42,030
Airborne LIDAR is pretty established,

1010
00:39:42,030 --> 00:39:46,110
obviously satellite imagery
and the original, the OG,

1011
00:39:46,110 --> 00:39:47,940
aerial orthoimagery forestry,

1012
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:49,140
we know how to use that.

1013
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:54,720
So, here's a video

1014
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,270
with some great jazz
music that goes with it.

1015
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:59,400
But this is about the
revolution in the woods,

1016
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,146
in terms of terrestrial laser scanning.

1017
00:40:02,146 --> 00:40:03,270
And I just,

1018
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:04,410
I could talk about it,

1019
00:40:04,410 --> 00:40:07,010
but I just felt like it
would be better to show you,

1020
00:40:08,822 --> 00:40:10,920
you know, this technology

1021
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,532
and why people are so excited about it.

1022
00:40:13,532 --> 00:40:16,532
(upbeat jazz music)

1023
00:40:24,839 --> 00:40:25,672
I think it goes without saying

1024
00:40:25,672 --> 00:40:26,505
that you can't do this

1025
00:40:26,505 --> 00:40:28,383
without a lot of really
powerful microchips,

1026
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,131
and integration of different technologies.

1027
00:40:33,131 --> 00:40:36,131
(upbeat jazz music)

1028
00:40:45,630 --> 00:40:46,463
So based on this,

1029
00:40:46,463 --> 00:40:48,600
they can calculate the volume of the tree.

1030
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,460
They're not estimating it right?

1031
00:40:50,460 --> 00:40:51,933
With an allometric model.

1032
00:40:54,690 --> 00:40:56,850
And any of you have
nerded out on allometry,

1033
00:40:56,850 --> 00:40:58,200
you know, that that's like,

1034
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,330
there's some camps in the allometry world,

1035
00:41:03,330 --> 00:41:05,700
and maybe we just set that all aside now,

1036
00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:06,533
I don't know.

1037
00:41:09,087 --> 00:41:10,500
But the amount of information

1038
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:13,069
that they're able to
extract from this technique

1039
00:41:13,069 --> 00:41:14,236
is remarkable.

1040
00:41:15,207 --> 00:41:16,457
But is it useful?

1041
00:41:18,165 --> 00:41:18,998
Is it scalable?

1042
00:41:19,884 --> 00:41:20,717
Right?

1043
00:41:20,717 --> 00:41:22,173
And what are the barriers to entry?

1044
00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:25,230
I don't know about all of you,

1045
00:41:25,230 --> 00:41:27,030
but most of the forest
landowners that I know

1046
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:28,620
are land rich and cash poor.

1047
00:41:28,620 --> 00:41:33,620
So, this technology is
extremely powerful and exciting,

1048
00:41:33,630 --> 00:41:38,630
but is it really accessible to folks,

1049
00:41:41,490 --> 00:41:43,080
And this, but this is remarkable work.

1050
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,190
And it's not even really that new.

1051
00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:47,253
I mean, they scanned that
forest us 10 years ago,

1052
00:41:49,290 --> 00:41:52,080
but the Scandinavians
are all over this, right?

1053
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:53,790
But not strictly Scandinavians.

1054
00:41:53,790 --> 00:41:56,290
We gotta give some love,
this is some great music.

1055
00:41:57,810 --> 00:41:58,890
But I want to show like,

1056
00:41:58,890 --> 00:42:00,843
the application of drones.

1057
00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:04,710
This is a firm out in the PNW,

1058
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:06,210
Northwest Management has this product

1059
00:42:06,210 --> 00:42:07,680
called Forest View.

1060
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,641
This is directly from their website.

1061
00:42:09,641 --> 00:42:10,474
And I,

1062
00:42:10,474 --> 00:42:11,850
and this is not an endorsement,

1063
00:42:11,850 --> 00:42:14,820
by FEMC, or me, for this firm,

1064
00:42:14,820 --> 00:42:16,350
but this is what they're saying is like,

1065
00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:19,920
you can go out and put out
these traditional plots,

1066
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,360
and measure a few hundred trees,

1067
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,943
and it's gonna cost you
about 11 bucks an acre.

1068
00:42:23,943 --> 00:42:26,580
and, and you only did 126 acres.

1069
00:42:26,580 --> 00:42:30,600
Or you can do orders of
magnitude more than that, right?

1070
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:31,433
And you have,

1071
00:42:31,433 --> 00:42:32,340
you still have some field plots,

1072
00:42:32,340 --> 00:42:34,140
'cause you've gotta train, right?

1073
00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:35,280
What the drone collects,

1074
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,170
you've gotta train that on field data.

1075
00:42:37,170 --> 00:42:40,200
So at least they are
actually doing field work.

1076
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,303
Some firms, it's not clear if they do.

1077
00:42:45,319 --> 00:42:46,290
But the cost per acre,

1078
00:42:46,290 --> 00:42:48,375
and the number of trees measured, right?

1079
00:42:48,375 --> 00:42:51,090
It's a complete game changer, right?

1080
00:42:51,090 --> 00:42:53,700
And the amount of area that
you can cover with this

1081
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:55,020
is a game changer.

1082
00:42:55,020 --> 00:42:56,850
And so it does make sense as a,

1083
00:42:56,850 --> 00:42:59,763
as to talk about it as a
revolution in the woods.

1084
00:43:01,170 --> 00:43:02,220
This is,

1085
00:43:02,220 --> 00:43:04,020
this idea of precision forestry,

1086
00:43:04,020 --> 00:43:05,400
and this is McKinsey and Company,

1087
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,843
which is a consulting firm.

1088
00:43:08,070 --> 00:43:09,510
This is almost,

1089
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:10,620
I mean, they're talking about

1090
00:43:10,620 --> 00:43:12,210
a complete revolution in forestry.

1091
00:43:12,210 --> 00:43:14,490
And we don't need to
get into this too much,

1092
00:43:14,490 --> 00:43:16,800
but they're not just
talking about measurements,

1093
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,120
they're talking about breeding,

1094
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,280
they're talking about
your growing stock, right?

1095
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,480
They're talking about the equipment,

1096
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,430
how you select trees,
how you harvest trees,

1097
00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:24,870
all of these things.

1098
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:28,030
It's, it is like really, like,

1099
00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:30,930
a big revolution in forestry,

1100
00:43:30,930 --> 00:43:32,370
and it's being promoted,

1101
00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:35,040
and it's being pushed forward
in a number of places.

1102
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,310
And I, on the left, again,
FEMC, like Alison's like,

1103
00:43:38,310 --> 00:43:40,560
we're not endorsing these firms, Colin,

1104
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:41,580
this is not an endorsement.

1105
00:43:41,580 --> 00:43:44,790
This is literally from
the E Forester newsletter

1106
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:46,770
that we get from SAF every week.

1107
00:43:46,770 --> 00:43:48,120
These are the advertisers

1108
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,530
that I've seen in this space

1109
00:43:49,530 --> 00:43:51,960
over the last year, right?

1110
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,700
And so these are the folks
that are in this space.

1111
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:55,950
There's many more that
are in this space as well.

1112
00:43:55,950 --> 00:43:58,593
Even John Deere is in this space.

1113
00:44:01,050 --> 00:44:03,900
So UAVs in particular, UAF's, you know,

1114
00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:05,820
platforms are versatile, efficient,

1115
00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:08,790
and they can be integrated
with existing field protocols.

1116
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:09,750
You can really improve

1117
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:11,280
your forest inventory and measurements

1118
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,980
at a much lower cost with larger area.

1119
00:44:13,980 --> 00:44:16,380
They also offered very
detailed maps and data

1120
00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:17,790
for management decision support.

1121
00:44:17,790 --> 00:44:19,800
Like where to put skid trails, right?

1122
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,950
Or culverts, or
delineating riparian zones,

1123
00:44:22,950 --> 00:44:24,183
or whatever it might be.

1124
00:44:25,530 --> 00:44:28,200
As I mentioned, as the video
shows, the TLS systems,

1125
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,850
the laser scanning,

1126
00:44:29,850 --> 00:44:32,190
ground-based LIDAR precisely
measures tree volume.

1127
00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:34,620
So do you have a need
for allometry anymore?

1128
00:44:34,620 --> 00:44:37,860
And the cost is decreasing dramatically

1129
00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:39,180
and becoming a lot more accessible,

1130
00:44:39,180 --> 00:44:41,630
and the public's a lot
more aware of these tools.

1131
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,670
But these, in this space,

1132
00:44:44,670 --> 00:44:46,920
there's a lot of for-profit
firms making big promises.

1133
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,860
So right caveat emptor,

1134
00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:51,210
there's limited scalability,

1135
00:44:51,210 --> 00:44:53,520
at least of UAVs for large landscapes.

1136
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,830
It might be cost prohibitive.

1137
00:44:55,830 --> 00:44:57,540
But there's opportunity to integrate

1138
00:44:57,540 --> 00:44:58,770
between other platforms,

1139
00:44:58,770 --> 00:45:02,220
aerial and satellite platforms
with the UAV across scales,

1140
00:45:02,220 --> 00:45:04,200
which I guess is an excitement thing.

1141
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:05,730
It's important to measure that,

1142
00:45:05,730 --> 00:45:06,960
or to mention that.

1143
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,910
There's a variability incompatibility

1144
00:45:08,910 --> 00:45:11,250
amongst platforms, sensors,
and data procedures.

1145
00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:13,020
I know folks are working on that,

1146
00:45:13,020 --> 00:45:14,370
but if everybody's doing
something different,

1147
00:45:14,370 --> 00:45:16,980
then how do you bring it all together?

1148
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:17,813
As I mentioned,

1149
00:45:17,813 --> 00:45:18,930
the forest inventory frameworks

1150
00:45:18,930 --> 00:45:20,310
are based on allometric models.

1151
00:45:20,310 --> 00:45:22,620
So how do we throw that all away

1152
00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:25,530
and do something different?

1153
00:45:25,530 --> 00:45:28,020
And a lot of times there's
proprietary software

1154
00:45:28,020 --> 00:45:29,430
that you need to pay for

1155
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:30,870
to process or analyze data.

1156
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:32,520
So if you buy a laser scanner,

1157
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,130
or you buy a drone with
a little LIDAR on it,

1158
00:45:35,130 --> 00:45:37,230
that doesn't mean that you all
of a sudden have a great map.

1159
00:45:37,230 --> 00:45:39,120
You've gotta grind through that data,

1160
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,760
and usually you have to buy their software

1161
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,050
to grind through the data,

1162
00:45:43,050 --> 00:45:44,883
or you have to buy a subscription.

1163
00:45:46,620 --> 00:45:49,530
So, none of my animations are working.

1164
00:45:49,530 --> 00:45:51,570
So, this last thing's
supposed to pop up at the end,

1165
00:45:51,570 --> 00:45:56,190
but, you know, for precision forestry,

1166
00:45:56,190 --> 00:45:58,110
I think TLS has been around for a while,

1167
00:45:58,110 --> 00:46:00,990
but it's applications in
forestry are still new.

1168
00:46:00,990 --> 00:46:03,603
UAVhyperspectral, there's
some excitement about that.

1169
00:46:03,603 --> 00:46:05,580
UAVs LIDAR is,

1170
00:46:05,580 --> 00:46:08,640
maybe it's further along on the curve,

1171
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,377
but I know of, you know,

1172
00:46:10,377 --> 00:46:13,200
and UAV based imagery
and those sync together,

1173
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,400
those integrated together
are very powerful.

1174
00:46:16,740 --> 00:46:19,650
I have the dot for integrated forestry,

1175
00:46:19,650 --> 00:46:22,260
precision forestry
services in three places.

1176
00:46:22,260 --> 00:46:23,730
My own anecdotal experience,

1177
00:46:23,730 --> 00:46:25,830
talking to forest landowners.

1178
00:46:25,830 --> 00:46:28,740
I know one that you know said,

1179
00:46:28,740 --> 00:46:30,900
and this is actually one of
the largest forest landowners

1180
00:46:30,900 --> 00:46:33,570
in New York state said, I was skeptical,

1181
00:46:33,570 --> 00:46:34,860
then we went ahead and did it.

1182
00:46:34,860 --> 00:46:36,653
I don't know how we'd live without it.

1183
00:46:37,710 --> 00:46:40,590
I talked to one who was
like, yeah, we did it,

1184
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:41,940
wasn't worth it.

1185
00:46:41,940 --> 00:46:42,773
Right?

1186
00:46:42,773 --> 00:46:44,850
And others are like, the
jury's still out, right?

1187
00:46:44,850 --> 00:46:46,410
So this is just my way of saying like,

1188
00:46:46,410 --> 00:46:48,540
your individual results may vary, right?

1189
00:46:48,540 --> 00:46:53,490
So, instant success, except
results may vary, right?

1190
00:46:53,490 --> 00:46:55,768
And that's something
we can talk more about.

1191
00:46:55,768 --> 00:46:59,070
And I think it's important
to think about these things,

1192
00:46:59,070 --> 00:47:02,820
because I think we all know
folks that own forest land,

1193
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:04,020
and they might ask us these questions,

1194
00:47:04,020 --> 00:47:05,400
should I hire so and so?

1195
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,423
Or should I do this?

1196
00:47:07,273 --> 00:47:08,550
And I don't know if I could, you know,

1197
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:09,813
give them a clear answer.

1198
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,680
Lastly, we have a nature
deficit disorder in the society,

1199
00:47:16,740 --> 00:47:17,573
right?

1200
00:47:17,573 --> 00:47:20,970
We have people that are
not familiar with forests.

1201
00:47:20,970 --> 00:47:22,350
We have a lot of people,

1202
00:47:22,350 --> 00:47:25,380
arguably the vast
majority of our population

1203
00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:29,043
in urban centers is actually
afraid of the forest.

1204
00:47:30,292 --> 00:47:33,090
And, and for understandable
reasons, they're not stupid.

1205
00:47:33,090 --> 00:47:34,230
They're not crazy.

1206
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:35,790
They're not weak.

1207
00:47:35,790 --> 00:47:38,490
They, it's an unfamiliar
environment, right?

1208
00:47:38,490 --> 00:47:39,960
So I tell this story of the first time,

1209
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,840
when I first came to
the Adirondacks in 2007.

1210
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,240
I was in Raybrook where
all the state offices are,

1211
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,600
and there's a maximum
security prison there.

1212
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,580
And there's a corrections officer,

1213
00:47:50,580 --> 00:47:53,070
one correction officer
with a dozen inmates,

1214
00:47:53,070 --> 00:47:55,110
and they were doing landscaping.

1215
00:47:55,110 --> 00:47:56,520
And I asked the corrections
officer, I said,

1216
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,560
aren't you worried you keep
track of all these guys,

1217
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:59,610
just one of you?

1218
00:47:59,610 --> 00:48:00,450
He's like, oh no,

1219
00:48:00,450 --> 00:48:01,920
they're way more afraid of the woods

1220
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:02,913
than they are me.

1221
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:06,000
They think as soon as
they step in the forest,

1222
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,420
they're gonna get eaten by a bear, right?

1223
00:48:09,420 --> 00:48:11,100
The vast majority of the prisoners

1224
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:12,720
that are in that facility

1225
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:16,023
come from New York City
and downstate, right?

1226
00:48:17,293 --> 00:48:19,710
And I think similarly, if we,

1227
00:48:19,710 --> 00:48:21,930
if some folks who live
out on the countryside

1228
00:48:21,930 --> 00:48:23,580
end up in the city,
they might be afraid of,

1229
00:48:23,580 --> 00:48:26,850
you know, places that aren't
really dangerous to them,

1230
00:48:26,850 --> 00:48:28,167
right?

1231
00:48:28,167 --> 00:48:29,790
It's that unfamiliarity.

1232
00:48:29,790 --> 00:48:32,610
Forest visualizations have
been around for a long time,

1233
00:48:32,610 --> 00:48:34,080
but I think that there's some work,

1234
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,700
and particularly working
with my friend and colleague,

1235
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:38,730
Aden Ackerman, who we'll
talk about, is game changer.

1236
00:48:38,730 --> 00:48:41,430
This is not a photo,
this is a visualization.

1237
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:44,400
You can walk through this
stream if you want to,

1238
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,450
in first person, like a video game, right?

1239
00:48:47,450 --> 00:48:51,090
And this is the quality
of these visualizations

1240
00:48:51,090 --> 00:48:53,550
to be able to tell these kinds of stories.

1241
00:48:53,550 --> 00:48:54,630
And I don't know about all of you,

1242
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:56,940
but I'm a very detailed,
kind of, oriented person.

1243
00:48:56,940 --> 00:48:59,130
And the only value I've really
brought to Aidan's work is

1244
00:48:59,130 --> 00:49:01,380
being like, eh, that
leaf doesn't quite look,

1245
00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:03,480
like, it should look like that, right?

1246
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,457
But that's, I guess my, you know,

1247
00:49:06,457 --> 00:49:08,130
that's my perspective as somebody

1248
00:49:08,130 --> 00:49:09,780
who spends a lot of time in the woods.

1249
00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:12,210
But I mean, the ability to
photo map these textures,

1250
00:49:12,210 --> 00:49:13,043
and things like that,

1251
00:49:13,043 --> 00:49:14,550
it makes it very realistic,

1252
00:49:14,550 --> 00:49:16,260
and it gives people, I think,

1253
00:49:16,260 --> 00:49:18,090
an opportunity to have like an on-ramp

1254
00:49:18,090 --> 00:49:19,800
to a forest experience,

1255
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,530
before they have a walk in the woods.

1256
00:49:22,530 --> 00:49:25,620
And there is no substitute
for a walk in the woods.

1257
00:49:25,620 --> 00:49:29,190
But for a lot of people, that's
not even an option, right?

1258
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:33,240
So can we broaden
engagement and tell stories,

1259
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:34,920
the kinds of stories we need to tell folks

1260
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,470
with these types of visualizations?

1261
00:49:37,470 --> 00:49:39,330
Just remarkable, you know,

1262
00:49:39,330 --> 00:49:43,500
accuracy, visually, and to
be able to have, you know,

1263
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:46,740
multiple species, different kinds of bark.

1264
00:49:46,740 --> 00:49:48,060
We have healthy beech bark,

1265
00:49:48,060 --> 00:49:50,190
and we have sick beech bark, right?

1266
00:49:50,190 --> 00:49:51,720
We have these types of things.

1267
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,110
We can also overlay data, right?

1268
00:49:55,110 --> 00:49:56,400
And again, tell stories.

1269
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:57,390
And so I'm going to,

1270
00:49:57,390 --> 00:50:00,390
this video that Aidan and
some colleagues of ours

1271
00:50:00,390 --> 00:50:02,560
at Michigan State developed

1272
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:05,850
to tell these kinds of stories.

1273
00:50:05,850 --> 00:50:07,860
[Lauren] Following good
civic cultural practices,

1274
00:50:07,860 --> 00:50:12,031
and planning for long-term
forest health and resilience.

1275
00:50:12,031 --> 00:50:14,130
For example, thinning,

1276
00:50:14,130 --> 00:50:16,140
or removing a portion of the trees,

1277
00:50:16,140 --> 00:50:17,760
can be implemented strategically

1278
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,463
to improve ecological and financial value.

1279
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,480
In the near term, carbon
storage recovers quickly

1280
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:25,860
as large trees grow,

1281
00:50:25,860 --> 00:50:29,400
and diverse young trees
become established.

1282
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,440
In the long term, this stand

1283
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,080
is diverse, resilient, and healthy.

1284
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,360
Carbon sequestration rates are high,

1285
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,960
and the forest continues to
regenerate into the future.

1286
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,270
And because this also allows a forest

1287
00:50:42,270 --> 00:50:44,400
to grow older and larger trees,

1288
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,493
there is a substantial
increase in carbon storage.

1289
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,500
[Colin ] This is Lauren Cooper, right?

1290
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:54,267
Lauren Cooper who's the director of

1291
00:50:54,267 --> 00:50:56,550
the forest carbon and climate
program at Michigan State

1292
00:50:56,550 --> 00:50:58,080
did that lovely voiceover,

1293
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,240
multi-talented person.

1294
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:01,323
Very soothing.

1295
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,700
There's a growing public
awareness of forest benefits

1296
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:09,810
in terms of health climate,
a number of things, right?

1297
00:51:09,810 --> 00:51:11,850
But I think forest,

1298
00:51:11,850 --> 00:51:14,790
and I, of course I get
to teach at ESF, right?

1299
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:16,950
We're all tree nerds.

1300
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:19,020
But outside of that bubble,

1301
00:51:19,020 --> 00:51:21,840
understanding of forests
is pretty limited.

1302
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,930
It lags behind, I think,
in the public mind.

1303
00:51:24,930 --> 00:51:27,900
And particularly can we
reach underserved audience

1304
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:30,483
as an on ramp to a real forest experience.

1305
00:51:31,650 --> 00:51:32,790
Demonstration forests,

1306
00:51:32,790 --> 00:51:33,870
we know are really effective

1307
00:51:33,870 --> 00:51:35,400
at helping to convey messages

1308
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,220
about forest stewardship, management,

1309
00:51:38,220 --> 00:51:39,570
things that are counterintuitive.

1310
00:51:39,570 --> 00:51:43,440
Why sometimes you have to cut
trees to say a forest, right?

1311
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,960
These are counterintuitive
things for the general public,

1312
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,890
but you show them a demonstration
area like, oh, that's,

1313
00:51:49,890 --> 00:51:50,723
that makes sense.

1314
00:51:50,723 --> 00:51:51,556
And of course,

1315
00:51:51,556 --> 00:51:52,710
folks in New England and New York

1316
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:54,300
wouldn't have been
doing it for generations

1317
00:51:54,300 --> 00:51:56,310
if it was catastrophic, right?

1318
00:51:56,310 --> 00:51:59,490
So there is some local
knowledge around this.

1319
00:51:59,490 --> 00:52:01,470
And of course there's tremendous amount

1320
00:52:01,470 --> 00:52:02,400
of traditional knowledge

1321
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,300
that we're just starting to recognize.

1322
00:52:05,310 --> 00:52:09,210
But these, can we create
virtual demonstration forests?

1323
00:52:09,210 --> 00:52:11,070
'Cause people aren't
rushing out like they're,

1324
00:52:11,070 --> 00:52:14,160
to Legoland, or Disneyland, to
go to a demonstration forest.

1325
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:15,750
Can we create a VR space

1326
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:17,670
where they can experience
some of these things?

1327
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:19,140
And that it's data driven.

1328
00:52:19,140 --> 00:52:22,530
So we're not accused of just
making cartoons up, right?

1329
00:52:22,530 --> 00:52:23,820
That these are real places

1330
00:52:23,820 --> 00:52:27,060
that we're kind of
digitally twinning, right?

1331
00:52:27,060 --> 00:52:30,270
That reflect long-term forest research

1332
00:52:30,270 --> 00:52:32,670
that helps us understand these dynamics.

1333
00:52:32,670 --> 00:52:35,940
And so, Aidan can share
more of these with you.

1334
00:52:35,940 --> 00:52:37,830
And there's a lot going on,

1335
00:52:37,830 --> 00:52:39,840
talking about the progression
of beech bark disease

1336
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,613
and implications for things.

1337
00:52:42,540 --> 00:52:43,950
And there's open tools being developed

1338
00:52:43,950 --> 00:52:46,380
for data driven visualizations
that tell these stories.

1339
00:52:46,380 --> 00:52:48,600
And this is work of

1340
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,100
another one of my students, Mike Mahoney.

1341
00:52:50,100 --> 00:52:53,790
And I promise this is the
last plug for my students,

1342
00:52:53,790 --> 00:52:55,770
who, you know, does a lot of things.

1343
00:52:55,770 --> 00:52:58,950
He just builds R packages
in his spare time, right?

1344
00:52:58,950 --> 00:53:00,420
So he's building R packages

1345
00:53:00,420 --> 00:53:02,640
so that anybody can get
on these game engines,

1346
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,900
bring their data in,

1347
00:53:03,900 --> 00:53:06,360
and create visualizations like this.

1348
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,470
This is lowering the barriers
to entry in a huge way, right?

1349
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:13,590
To be able to take inventory
data and, and locations,

1350
00:53:13,590 --> 00:53:15,690
so terrain is really exciting because

1351
00:53:15,690 --> 00:53:17,400
you basically pick a spot,

1352
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,140
the package pulls in all the geo data

1353
00:53:19,140 --> 00:53:20,760
from the national map and other places

1354
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,340
and creates a
three-dimensional visualization

1355
00:53:23,340 --> 00:53:25,020
that you can interact with

1356
00:53:25,020 --> 00:53:26,720
and do all kinds of analysis with.

1357
00:53:28,140 --> 00:53:30,643
But there is no substitute
for a walk in the woods,

1358
00:53:30,643 --> 00:53:32,704
I say that time and time again.

1359
00:53:32,704 --> 00:53:34,910
And there's no substitute for field work

1360
00:53:34,910 --> 00:53:37,470
as it replaced to monitoring.

1361
00:53:37,470 --> 00:53:38,820
There's no silver bullet either,

1362
00:53:38,820 --> 00:53:41,640
for misconceptions about
forest ecology and management.

1363
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,590
Aidan and I have written a
few proposals over the years

1364
00:53:43,590 --> 00:53:46,440
that run into that kind
of grumpy skepticism,

1365
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,472
a lot that,

1366
00:53:47,472 --> 00:53:50,220
ah, there've been forced
visualizations forever, right?

1367
00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:53,610
There's been two decades of
unfulfilled hype around VR,

1368
00:53:53,610 --> 00:53:54,443
right?

1369
00:53:54,443 --> 00:53:55,290
Will better graphics,

1370
00:53:55,290 --> 00:53:57,240
I mean, these are way better,

1371
00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:59,370
but will this really change this?

1372
00:53:59,370 --> 00:54:00,300
I, we don't know.

1373
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:02,670
And could any of us with kids,

1374
00:54:02,670 --> 00:54:04,860
like more screen time, really?

1375
00:54:04,860 --> 00:54:05,693
Right?

1376
00:54:05,693 --> 00:54:06,526
Even more screen time?

1377
00:54:06,526 --> 00:54:08,580
Could this actually make
nature deficit disorder worse?

1378
00:54:08,580 --> 00:54:09,660
People like, well, it's good enough.

1379
00:54:09,660 --> 00:54:11,130
I saw it in in my Oculus,

1380
00:54:11,130 --> 00:54:12,870
I don't need to actually go out there.

1381
00:54:12,870 --> 00:54:15,390
The goal is to get
people out there, right?

1382
00:54:15,390 --> 00:54:17,430
But this is an meant to be an on-ramp,

1383
00:54:17,430 --> 00:54:19,287
but maybe it, you know,

1384
00:54:19,287 --> 00:54:21,660
and again, even with
Mike's work and other work,

1385
00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:23,973
there are still significant
barriers to entry.

1386
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:26,730
And I'm gonna give Aidan credit for this

1387
00:54:26,730 --> 00:54:27,720
because he did it,

1388
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:29,730
because mine looked terrible, right?

1389
00:54:29,730 --> 00:54:32,130
But this is really showing
this progression of VR,

1390
00:54:32,130 --> 00:54:34,710
in particular, over time.

1391
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:39,710
And that there is a growing
engagement with this,

1392
00:54:39,793 --> 00:54:44,100
and I know some of my
grumpiest forestry colleagues

1393
00:54:44,100 --> 00:54:44,988
are like,

1394
00:54:44,988 --> 00:54:45,821
(gasps)

1395
00:54:45,821 --> 00:54:47,700
you know, and these are,
these are folks that like,

1396
00:54:47,700 --> 00:54:48,900
didn't think that video games

1397
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:52,290
had anything to contribute
to their work, right?

1398
00:54:52,290 --> 00:54:54,780
And it, they're, it's a
game changer instantly.

1399
00:54:54,780 --> 00:54:55,833
So it's exciting.

1400
00:54:57,570 --> 00:54:59,460
So, we still have these same questions.

1401
00:54:59,460 --> 00:55:01,060
I haven't answered them for you.

1402
00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:05,670
Hopefully I've gotten
you thinking about them.

1403
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:06,840
But as I said,

1404
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:11,310
and I would like to
welcome our expert panel

1405
00:55:11,310 --> 00:55:13,980
to come up is that, they just?

1406
00:55:13,980 --> 00:55:15,530
Be careful coming on the stage.

1407
00:55:17,550 --> 00:55:21,210
So I'm very grateful to
have these three experts,

1408
00:55:21,210 --> 00:55:23,957
and really productive thinkers,

1409
00:55:23,957 --> 00:55:25,050
with us today,

1410
00:55:25,050 --> 00:55:27,513
and I'm gonna attempt to
facilitate a discussion.

1411
00:55:28,620 --> 00:55:30,210
First is Jarlath O'Neil-Dunne.

1412
00:55:30,210 --> 00:55:32,580
Jarlath, I apologize for adding an L

1413
00:55:32,580 --> 00:55:34,770
to your last name there.

1414
00:55:34,770 --> 00:55:36,660
He's the director of
the spatial analysis lab

1415
00:55:36,660 --> 00:55:38,341
here at UVM,

1416
00:55:38,341 --> 00:55:39,870
and also with the US Forest Service

1417
00:55:39,870 --> 00:55:41,850
Northern Research Station.

1418
00:55:41,850 --> 00:55:43,440
Jarlath is one of the rock stars

1419
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:44,940
in remote sensing,

1420
00:55:44,940 --> 00:55:47,110
and making sense of remotely sensed data

1421
00:55:48,060 --> 00:55:48,893
that I know of,

1422
00:55:48,893 --> 00:55:50,970
is somebody that we always look to

1423
00:55:50,970 --> 00:55:52,413
as a leader in this field.

1424
00:55:53,340 --> 00:55:55,996
And particularly really,

1425
00:55:55,996 --> 00:55:58,740
the good basic fundamental technology,

1426
00:55:58,740 --> 00:55:59,820
but the applications of it.

1427
00:55:59,820 --> 00:56:02,160
Really powerful, really diverse.

1428
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,240
Probably one of the biggest
evangelists for drones

1429
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:09,330
and their applications
and resource stewardship.

1430
00:56:09,330 --> 00:56:11,910
Dr. Sara Kuebbing comes from the,

1431
00:56:11,910 --> 00:56:14,700
from the forest school at Yale University,

1432
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:16,323
that other forest school.

1433
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,880
She's the director of the Applied
Science Synthesis program.

1434
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,920
She's an applied and and I, Sara,

1435
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,320
I took the liberty of
saying translational ecology

1436
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,690
in the position that you're in,

1437
00:56:27,690 --> 00:56:29,010
in the sense that

1438
00:56:29,010 --> 00:56:30,510
it's about doing research

1439
00:56:30,510 --> 00:56:32,400
and engaging multiple ways of knowing,

1440
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,130
engaging people, and stakeholders

1441
00:56:35,130 --> 00:56:36,300
outside of academia,

1442
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:38,340
or outside of this agency

1443
00:56:38,340 --> 00:56:40,290
as co-generating,

1444
00:56:40,290 --> 00:56:42,570
co-generating the knowledge together.

1445
00:56:42,570 --> 00:56:43,403
She has a background

1446
00:56:43,403 --> 00:56:45,210
in conservation and invasion biology

1447
00:56:45,210 --> 00:56:47,670
and plant community and ecosystem ecology.

1448
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:49,830
Really grateful for Sara joining us.

1449
00:56:49,830 --> 00:56:53,430
And last but certainly not
least is Aidan Ackerman,

1450
00:56:53,430 --> 00:56:54,660
who is an assistant professor

1451
00:56:54,660 --> 00:56:57,840
in our landscape architecture
department at SUNY ESF.

1452
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,840
And he's really bringing
an amazing skillset

1453
00:57:03,060 --> 00:57:05,620
and a really wonderful
collaborative ability

1454
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:09,300
to data-driven environmental modeling,

1455
00:57:09,300 --> 00:57:13,170
visualization, simulation,
and immersive VR technology,

1456
00:57:13,170 --> 00:57:14,520
and already applying it and work

1457
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,150
with the National Park Service

1458
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:19,080
and a number of other groups,

1459
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:23,460
including the siting of
wind, windmills, wind,

1460
00:57:23,460 --> 00:57:24,600
what are they officially called?

1461
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:25,800
They're not just windmills.

1462
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:26,633
They're windmills?

1463
00:57:26,633 --> 00:57:27,466
[Audience Member] Wind turbines?

1464
00:57:27,466 --> 00:57:28,930
[Colin] Wind turbines. Thank you.

1465
00:57:29,999 --> 00:57:33,810
And, so really applying this work

1466
00:57:33,810 --> 00:57:36,570
into environmental decision making space.

1467
00:57:36,570 --> 00:57:40,740
So, let's give a round of
applause for our panel,

1468
00:57:40,740 --> 00:57:42,543
'cause they're gonna
answer all these questions.

1469
00:57:42,543 --> 00:57:45,543
(audience clapping)

1470
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:49,290
And I'm gonna leave this slide up

1471
00:57:49,290 --> 00:57:50,880
unless you want to change it,

1472
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,283
and sit here, sit down.

1473
00:58:00,270 --> 00:58:02,610
So who wants to start?

1474
00:58:02,610 --> 00:58:04,157
Well I think Colin,

1475
00:58:04,157 --> 00:58:04,990
we should start by marveling,

1476
00:58:04,990 --> 00:58:05,823
not just remote sensing,

1477
00:58:05,823 --> 00:58:07,920
but what Photoshop can do because gosh,

1478
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,431
my pre-COVID Photoshop photo looks,

1479
00:58:11,431 --> 00:58:13,727
I look so much better up there, don't I?

1480
00:58:13,727 --> 00:58:16,453
I know I wanted to put male model

1481
00:58:16,453 --> 00:58:18,610
underneath there as well.

1482
00:58:20,058 --> 00:58:20,891
Well, I can jump in.

1483
00:58:20,891 --> 00:58:22,320
You hear me okay?

1484
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:23,730
That was a great talk and, you know,

1485
00:58:23,730 --> 00:58:26,490
very entertaining and
really captured a lot of

1486
00:58:26,490 --> 00:58:27,990
the questions that come up for me.

1487
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:30,630
I think one thing that stood out

1488
00:58:30,630 --> 00:58:34,620
when you did that timeline
of tool development

1489
00:58:34,620 --> 00:58:38,040
from Wikipedia was, you
know, not being a forester,

1490
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,950
I do guess that probably that sort of

1491
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:43,500
first half of that tool set,

1492
00:58:43,500 --> 00:58:48,500
it's probably developed four
forestry practices primarily.

1493
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,340
And that second half getting into digital

1494
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:56,250
I think was maybe more derivative.

1495
00:58:56,250 --> 00:58:57,083
Like I think about this

1496
00:58:57,083 --> 00:58:58,320
as a landscape architect all the time

1497
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,390
where there's no software or tool

1498
00:59:00,390 --> 00:59:03,000
made for landscape architecture.

1499
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,550
You know, so I suspect that the, you know,

1500
00:59:05,550 --> 00:59:08,880
things like remote sensing,
or use of video game engines,

1501
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,060
or any of that started
with a different need

1502
00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:14,640
that was its primary driver,

1503
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,160
often a military need, right?

1504
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:18,540
And others as well.

1505
00:59:18,540 --> 00:59:21,660
Or an entertainment need in
the case of the virtual stuff.

1506
00:59:21,660 --> 00:59:24,840
And then we sort of find ways to apply it.

1507
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:29,840
And so, you know, that
fundamentally leads to,

1508
00:59:29,940 --> 00:59:31,500
you know, probably like a core mismatch

1509
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:32,880
between what it was intended to do

1510
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:33,900
and what we're doing with it,

1511
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:37,470
which doesn't mean it doesn't
do what we're doing very well,

1512
00:59:37,470 --> 00:59:39,720
but I think there's just
something interesting about

1513
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,240
a tool that was developed
for a specific forestry,

1514
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,040
or monitoring practice,

1515
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:45,840
like an analog tool usually,

1516
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,360
and the adoption of a different tool,

1517
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:49,470
that had a different intent,

1518
00:59:49,470 --> 00:59:51,630
and starting to apply it to what we do.

1519
00:59:51,630 --> 00:59:52,470
So that stood out.

1520
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:53,720
And you know, I say with,

1521
00:59:54,642 --> 00:59:56,700
with the virtual visualizations,

1522
00:59:56,700 --> 00:59:58,020
that's very much the case.

1523
00:59:58,020 --> 01:00:03,000
Like we, we are have inherited
two great technologies,

1524
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:03,833
right?

1525
01:00:03,833 --> 01:00:08,460
So, virtual reality and
video game technology,

1526
01:00:08,460 --> 01:00:11,340
and mostly those have
been used to play games

1527
01:00:11,340 --> 01:00:14,970
and to sell condos that
haven't been built yet

1528
01:00:14,970 --> 01:00:17,010
by looking at in virtual reality.

1529
01:00:17,010 --> 01:00:19,890
And so, a lot of what
we get, we, you know,

1530
01:00:19,890 --> 01:00:22,620
digitally grow our trees,
or we go out and we take,

1531
01:00:22,620 --> 01:00:24,750
you know, photogrammetry of actual trees,

1532
01:00:24,750 --> 01:00:28,090
but the ways in which we assemble them are

1533
01:00:29,010 --> 01:00:31,140
taking, pretty much
other people's products,

1534
01:00:31,140 --> 01:00:32,910
and other people's workflows
and putting together.

1535
01:00:32,910 --> 01:00:33,750
So I think one thing that,

1536
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:38,211
you know, boosting
Mike's talk is, you know,

1537
01:00:38,211 --> 01:00:41,140
that's one of the first applications of

1538
01:00:42,740 --> 01:00:45,870
a specific workflow to
forestry first and foremost.

1539
01:00:45,870 --> 01:00:47,170
So I don't know if that,

1540
01:00:48,389 --> 01:00:50,250
you know, given your two areas,

1541
01:00:50,250 --> 01:00:51,480
your reactions to that,

1542
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,190
you know, mine is probably the furthest,

1543
01:00:53,190 --> 01:00:54,023
like I'm borrowing a lot

1544
01:00:54,023 --> 01:00:55,810
from the entertainment side of things,

1545
01:00:56,670 --> 01:00:59,040
but if that, you know,
lands for you at all,

1546
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,230
I'm thinking specifically
about like those tape measures,

1547
01:01:01,230 --> 01:01:04,500
and those, you know, lenses,

1548
01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:05,370
and what those do,

1549
01:01:05,370 --> 01:01:07,500
they do like one specific
thing really well

1550
01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:09,543
for monitoring and measurement, right?

1551
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,500
And what your reaction is to that.

1552
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,850
Well, I think in my case,

1553
01:01:17,850 --> 01:01:19,710
the more I use technology,

1554
01:01:19,710 --> 01:01:22,530
the more I become concerned about things.

1555
01:01:22,530 --> 01:01:26,070
One is the data sciencification of things,

1556
01:01:26,070 --> 01:01:27,620
trademark, all rights reserved.

1557
01:01:28,830 --> 01:01:31,170
In that, what do we lose

1558
01:01:31,170 --> 01:01:32,880
when we move to these technologies?

1559
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,070
What do we lose in our workforce, right?

1560
01:01:35,070 --> 01:01:37,380
As our students are sitting around

1561
01:01:37,380 --> 01:01:39,510
taking more classes that I teach

1562
01:01:39,510 --> 01:01:42,450
in geospatial or advanced statistics,

1563
01:01:42,450 --> 01:01:43,737
do they lose the time in the woods,

1564
01:01:43,737 --> 01:01:45,237
and the understanding, right?

1565
01:01:45,237 --> 01:01:47,850
And we take a look at a
lot of the things around

1566
01:01:47,850 --> 01:01:50,313
artificial intelligence
and remote sensing.

1567
01:01:51,180 --> 01:01:52,013
Great.

1568
01:01:52,013 --> 01:01:52,846
You built an algorithm

1569
01:01:52,846 --> 01:01:55,140
that extracts all the buildings
from satellite imagery

1570
01:01:55,140 --> 01:01:56,310
in the world, right?

1571
01:01:56,310 --> 01:01:58,290
My, daughter when she was two

1572
01:01:58,290 --> 01:02:00,120
would have been really good
at identifying a building.

1573
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,850
When we get into some of
the complicated issues

1574
01:02:02,850 --> 01:02:05,220
that we're talking about in forestry,

1575
01:02:05,220 --> 01:02:07,737
we really need domain expertise.

1576
01:02:07,737 --> 01:02:11,370
And my great concern is
that we're losing that.

1577
01:02:11,370 --> 01:02:13,110
I also really liked your talk, Colin,

1578
01:02:13,110 --> 01:02:15,900
because you went outside of forestry

1579
01:02:15,900 --> 01:02:18,300
and I think what's nice when
we get into these technologies

1580
01:02:18,300 --> 01:02:20,910
is we can look at other industries.

1581
01:02:20,910 --> 01:02:23,430
I ask my friends and
relatives who are in medicine

1582
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:25,590
about the move to digital records

1583
01:02:25,590 --> 01:02:26,430
and all the imaging,

1584
01:02:26,430 --> 01:02:28,380
and do they really feel like

1585
01:02:28,380 --> 01:02:29,970
America is any healthier now

1586
01:02:29,970 --> 01:02:31,380
with billions of dollars?

1587
01:02:31,380 --> 01:02:33,060
Are they more fulfilled in their jobs?

1588
01:02:33,060 --> 01:02:34,080
No, no, no.

1589
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:35,220
Right across the board.

1590
01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:37,380
And then I think we have
some very worrying trends

1591
01:02:37,380 --> 01:02:38,760
we're seeing

1592
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,820
with the move in precision agriculture

1593
01:02:41,820 --> 01:02:43,410
that can give us an indication

1594
01:02:43,410 --> 01:02:45,540
of what may be coming in forestry,

1595
01:02:45,540 --> 01:02:47,610
you no longer own your equipment.

1596
01:02:47,610 --> 01:02:50,760
You license things.

1597
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:52,920
The data are all behind the scenes.

1598
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,150
You have very, very little
understanding of what's going on.

1599
01:02:57,150 --> 01:02:58,800
And I think here in the northeast,

1600
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,810
where we have a lot of

1601
01:03:00,810 --> 01:03:03,300
smaller scale and family run operations,

1602
01:03:03,300 --> 01:03:05,460
these technologies may not scale.

1603
01:03:05,460 --> 01:03:08,130
But when we look what's happened
in precision agriculture

1604
01:03:08,130 --> 01:03:08,963
in the Midwest,

1605
01:03:08,963 --> 01:03:13,530
I think those are some real
concerns that we should have,

1606
01:03:13,530 --> 01:03:16,800
particularly for an
organization like FEMC, right?

1607
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,820
Because then you have all
the awesomeness of data

1608
01:03:20,820 --> 01:03:24,870
suddenly no longer exists
within government agencies

1609
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:27,020
or individuals who may
be willing to share it.

1610
01:03:27,020 --> 01:03:30,693
It does potentially exist
within corporations.

1611
01:03:32,580 --> 01:03:34,620
Yeah, I guess I'll just chime in here.

1612
01:03:34,620 --> 01:03:38,340
I'm glad to hear Jarlath
bring up medicine.

1613
01:03:38,340 --> 01:03:41,190
I think this is something our
group has talked a lot about,

1614
01:03:41,190 --> 01:03:45,900
is parallels between worlds
like epidemiology and forestry,

1615
01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:48,300
which on the onset maybe
seem very different,

1616
01:03:48,300 --> 01:03:51,330
but together they have
very similar problems.

1617
01:03:51,330 --> 01:03:53,490
And this touches on the scaling question

1618
01:03:53,490 --> 01:03:54,420
that Colin brought up

1619
01:03:54,420 --> 01:03:56,850
that I think connects all these questions,

1620
01:03:56,850 --> 01:03:58,710
is we have data sets that we're collecting

1621
01:03:58,710 --> 01:04:00,300
literally at different spatial scales,

1622
01:04:00,300 --> 01:04:02,580
and we need to downscale
those data sets sometimes,

1623
01:04:02,580 --> 01:04:04,950
and we need to upscale
those data sets sometimes.

1624
01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:07,200
And then thinking about that application

1625
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:08,130
and how we can do that,

1626
01:04:08,130 --> 01:04:09,930
or if we can do that well,

1627
01:04:09,930 --> 01:04:11,220
there's a lot of questions there.

1628
01:04:11,220 --> 01:04:13,800
But, I think the connection is

1629
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:15,810
when we think about individual humans,

1630
01:04:15,810 --> 01:04:16,643
and their health,

1631
01:04:16,643 --> 01:04:19,290
epidemiologists are rarely going to say,

1632
01:04:19,290 --> 01:04:21,840
you are going to get COVID
today, and you will not.

1633
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:22,673
Right?

1634
01:04:22,673 --> 01:04:24,060
The models can't predict that.

1635
01:04:24,060 --> 01:04:25,770
That's the same thing
with our forest stands.

1636
01:04:25,770 --> 01:04:28,650
I think we should be realistic
about a single forest stand

1637
01:04:28,650 --> 01:04:30,270
being able to really be able to predict,

1638
01:04:30,270 --> 01:04:32,940
and predict or project into the future

1639
01:04:32,940 --> 01:04:35,190
what will happen at that individual level

1640
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:37,077
despite the massive amounts of data.

1641
01:04:37,077 --> 01:04:40,110
And so one area also that

1642
01:04:40,110 --> 01:04:41,370
our group has been thinking a lot about

1643
01:04:41,370 --> 01:04:43,110
is the application of this technology

1644
01:04:43,110 --> 01:04:45,012
into the carbon credit markets,

1645
01:04:45,012 --> 01:04:49,500
which are at that whatever
the peak is of the hype cycle.

1646
01:04:49,500 --> 01:04:51,450
That is where we are right now.

1647
01:04:51,450 --> 01:04:53,940
And how these conversations

1648
01:04:53,940 --> 01:04:55,920
about the differences in
data are fueling that.

1649
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,770
So, touching on some of the
things you guys talked about,

1650
01:04:58,770 --> 01:05:00,150
trying to stay far away from

1651
01:05:00,150 --> 01:05:02,223
answering any of Colin's questions.

1652
01:05:04,110 --> 01:05:05,430
Yeah. I think there's,

1653
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:06,540
and Jarlath, you brought up this,

1654
01:05:06,540 --> 01:05:07,980
there's this black box, right?

1655
01:05:07,980 --> 01:05:08,940
Kind of in the sense of like,

1656
01:05:08,940 --> 01:05:11,190
people don't know how these things work.

1657
01:05:11,190 --> 01:05:15,360
And you've worked with so many different,

1658
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:16,193
kind of clients,

1659
01:05:16,193 --> 01:05:17,973
in the sense of different partners.

1660
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,320
Have you found the

1661
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,249
concern about what's kind
of behind the curtain?

1662
01:05:24,249 --> 01:05:28,200
Does that, does that impede progress?

1663
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,050
Does that create less
faith in the outputs?

1664
01:05:31,050 --> 01:05:32,940
Does that, or does that vary

1665
01:05:32,940 --> 01:05:36,660
amongst different types of folks?

1666
01:05:36,660 --> 01:05:38,250
Different types of clients
in different settings,

1667
01:05:38,250 --> 01:05:39,480
whether, I know you've
worked with military,

1668
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:40,313
you worked with FEMA,

1669
01:05:40,313 --> 01:05:42,420
you worked, worked with so many different

1670
01:05:42,420 --> 01:05:45,060
types of partners.

1671
01:05:45,060 --> 01:05:47,160
Yeah, I think people
are so pushed right now.

1672
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:48,480
They really just,

1673
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:49,890
they almost want a one-pager,

1674
01:05:49,890 --> 01:05:51,390
or they want a PowerPoint slide

1675
01:05:51,390 --> 01:05:53,820
that's gonna answer their question.

1676
01:05:53,820 --> 01:05:55,470
I think where we see the,

1677
01:05:55,470 --> 01:05:57,120
one of these major challenges

1678
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,820
with remote sensing technologies

1679
01:05:59,820 --> 01:06:02,340
is that, particularly when we seek to

1680
01:06:02,340 --> 01:06:04,830
understand long-term trends,

1681
01:06:04,830 --> 01:06:07,920
is that our past data and our new data

1682
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:08,790
don't match.

1683
01:06:08,790 --> 01:06:10,950
You can just take LIDAR for instance,

1684
01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:12,420
and the trees look very different.

1685
01:06:12,420 --> 01:06:14,520
The gaps look very different.

1686
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,460
All of these things, as
the technology improves.

1687
01:06:17,460 --> 01:06:20,330
And so our ability to understand things

1688
01:06:20,330 --> 01:06:22,230
in just a world I operate in a lot,

1689
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:23,580
which is providing people

1690
01:06:23,580 --> 01:06:26,310
with estimates of tree
canopy in open areas

1691
01:06:26,310 --> 01:06:28,350
will get wildly different estimates.

1692
01:06:28,350 --> 01:06:30,930
Whether you're using Landsat imagery,

1693
01:06:30,930 --> 01:06:33,660
whether you're using a point-based sample

1694
01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:34,620
from photos,

1695
01:06:34,620 --> 01:06:35,880
where the trees lean

1696
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:36,840
in different directions

1697
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:37,890
in those photos,

1698
01:06:37,890 --> 01:06:40,470
or where you're using
high resolution LIDAR.

1699
01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:43,950
And that story can be your
city's gaining tree canopy,

1700
01:06:43,950 --> 01:06:45,360
or your city's losing tree canopy.

1701
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,600
That's a, it's a completely
opposite of one another.

1702
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,180
And I think that's where the challenge is,

1703
01:06:50,180 --> 01:06:53,247
is that people want faith in the data,

1704
01:06:53,247 --> 01:06:54,990
and the faith in the technology,

1705
01:06:54,990 --> 01:06:58,230
and it is actually
inherently very unstable

1706
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:59,970
and gives us very different answers.

1707
01:06:59,970 --> 01:07:04,110
And that causes a lot of questions.

1708
01:07:04,110 --> 01:07:06,180
And it comes down to trust, right?

1709
01:07:06,180 --> 01:07:08,610
So many things fall on our emotions

1710
01:07:08,610 --> 01:07:10,377
and we want to trust these things,

1711
01:07:10,377 --> 01:07:13,620
and the reality is that we
can't always trust them.

1712
01:07:13,620 --> 01:07:15,510
And then when it gets to the black box,

1713
01:07:15,510 --> 01:07:17,100
that's even less trust.

1714
01:07:17,100 --> 01:07:18,570
Right.

1715
01:07:18,570 --> 01:07:19,970
No, thank you.

1716
01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:20,803
Yeah. I think,

1717
01:07:20,803 --> 01:07:21,636
it makes me think also,

1718
01:07:21,636 --> 01:07:22,680
and that kind of gets to my point again,

1719
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,580
I'm not trying to disrespect to engineers,

1720
01:07:26,580 --> 01:07:28,260
but I think that the idea,

1721
01:07:28,260 --> 01:07:29,783
there is a lot of the work of like,

1722
01:07:29,783 --> 01:07:31,050
there's a new satellite,

1723
01:07:31,050 --> 01:07:32,520
there's a new sensor,

1724
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:34,440
there's a new algorithm, right?

1725
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,597
And let's go for it, right?

1726
01:07:36,597 --> 01:07:37,920
And let's do it.

1727
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,110
But then stacks on top
of all the other things

1728
01:07:40,110 --> 01:07:41,130
we already have.

1729
01:07:41,130 --> 01:07:42,210
And there isn't that work

1730
01:07:42,210 --> 01:07:43,980
to kind of come back and compare,

1731
01:07:43,980 --> 01:07:46,530
and try to understand what is,

1732
01:07:46,530 --> 01:07:48,300
are there common threads, right?

1733
01:07:48,300 --> 01:07:52,800
Or are these very contradictory?

1734
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:54,630
And again, that gets to this idea of like,

1735
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:56,580
what does it really mean, right?

1736
01:07:56,580 --> 01:07:59,250
And I also went down a
rabbit hole with this,

1737
01:07:59,250 --> 01:08:02,667
and you know, thinking about
means versus ends, right?

1738
01:08:02,667 --> 01:08:04,590
And I think, you know,

1739
01:08:04,590 --> 01:08:07,680
Sara and AIE were talking
about outcomes, right?

1740
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:09,897
And so the how do we get there?

1741
01:08:09,897 --> 01:08:11,993
And you, Aidan you pointed out

1742
01:08:11,993 --> 01:08:13,380
that a lot of the technology

1743
01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:14,550
that we're applying to forestry

1744
01:08:14,550 --> 01:08:15,780
wasn't developed for that,

1745
01:08:15,780 --> 01:08:18,270
same thing with video
game engines with VR.

1746
01:08:18,270 --> 01:08:19,710
It wasn't meant to be applied

1747
01:08:19,710 --> 01:08:22,083
in this environmental visualization space.

1748
01:08:23,730 --> 01:08:26,370
And it, but the same is
true for NASA, right?

1749
01:08:26,370 --> 01:08:29,580
I mean, NASA's funding programs are like,

1750
01:08:29,580 --> 01:08:31,197
we sent this, we developed this technology

1751
01:08:31,197 --> 01:08:33,030
and we sent it up in space.

1752
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:35,280
Could you find other uses for it?

1753
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:36,330
Right?

1754
01:08:36,330 --> 01:08:37,950
That maybe, cynically,

1755
01:08:37,950 --> 01:08:40,620
would help us justify our budget, right?

1756
01:08:40,620 --> 01:08:41,880
And so, you know,

1757
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:43,800
there's a lot of technology
that NASA's developed,

1758
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,540
but most of us just familiar with the pen

1759
01:08:45,540 --> 01:08:47,640
that will write upside down, right?

1760
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:48,930
And it's that kind of example

1761
01:08:48,930 --> 01:08:50,610
that wasn't what, you know,

1762
01:08:50,610 --> 01:08:52,770
what they originally designed it for.

1763
01:08:52,770 --> 01:08:53,670
So I just want to,

1764
01:08:53,670 --> 01:08:56,702
I just want to think about the,

1765
01:08:56,702 --> 01:09:01,702
is there a hazard in applying technology

1766
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:04,519
in the new space?

1767
01:09:04,519 --> 01:09:06,600
I think we can see some
of the benefits of it,

1768
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,210
but are there other kinds of hazards?

1769
01:09:09,210 --> 01:09:10,043
Yeah,

1770
01:09:10,043 --> 01:09:11,250
I was thinking a little bit about tools

1771
01:09:11,250 --> 01:09:12,090
and the hype cycle.

1772
01:09:12,090 --> 01:09:14,760
Actually, I got started
thinking about tools when

1773
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,060
both Jarlath and Sara
mentioned medical applications.

1774
01:09:18,060 --> 01:09:21,360
So, you know, go off on
a tangent for a second.

1775
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,480
My mother-in-law was a
midwife at Dartmouth Hitchcock

1776
01:09:24,480 --> 01:09:25,313
and she, you know,

1777
01:09:25,313 --> 01:09:26,670
we talk a lot about technology

1778
01:09:26,670 --> 01:09:28,470
and she talks about charting, you know,

1779
01:09:28,470 --> 01:09:29,640
writing down the patient's records

1780
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,020
and how it used to be,

1781
01:09:31,020 --> 01:09:32,370
her interpretation of things,

1782
01:09:32,370 --> 01:09:33,203
and she would write out,

1783
01:09:33,203 --> 01:09:35,010
kind of like a story,

1784
01:09:35,010 --> 01:09:36,150
and how much that changed

1785
01:09:36,150 --> 01:09:37,770
when she was given dropdown menus

1786
01:09:37,770 --> 01:09:38,850
to choose symptoms,

1787
01:09:38,850 --> 01:09:39,683
and stuff like that.

1788
01:09:39,683 --> 01:09:40,800
And so, you know,

1789
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:41,820
that's a great illustration

1790
01:09:41,820 --> 01:09:43,290
of what I tell my students
all the time is like

1791
01:09:43,290 --> 01:09:44,400
that I, you know,

1792
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,920
being, loving digital technology so much,

1793
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:48,210
there's always this fundamental debate,

1794
01:09:48,210 --> 01:09:50,640
hand drawing versus digital.

1795
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,310
And one is an open-ended tool

1796
01:09:53,310 --> 01:09:55,170
that you've been using your whole life.

1797
01:09:55,170 --> 01:09:59,338
And the other comes with
options, and menus, and tools.

1798
01:09:59,338 --> 01:10:01,920
And so, when, you know,

1799
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,290
typically even with some of
the older forestry tools,

1800
01:10:04,290 --> 01:10:05,123
you pick it up

1801
01:10:05,123 --> 01:10:05,956
and you do

1802
01:10:05,956 --> 01:10:07,380
what it tells you it should do,

1803
01:10:07,380 --> 01:10:09,567
because it's a tool with
certain things it can do.

1804
01:10:09,567 --> 01:10:11,040
And with digital tools,

1805
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,680
I think that becomes even riskier

1806
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,720
because you can't manipulate the thing,

1807
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:16,740
or try different things.

1808
01:10:16,740 --> 01:10:18,940
You just really are
guided by the interface.

1809
01:10:19,980 --> 01:10:23,190
And so, that's sort of, you know,

1810
01:10:23,190 --> 01:10:26,190
that can be really reassuring,
I think, to end users,

1811
01:10:26,190 --> 01:10:29,070
that once you learn how to
operate the digital tool,

1812
01:10:29,070 --> 01:10:30,240
you're proficient at it,

1813
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,585
and you can do what you need to with it.

1814
01:10:32,585 --> 01:10:35,130
I think sort of back to that hype cycle,

1815
01:10:35,130 --> 01:10:36,090
first kind of the upsides,

1816
01:10:36,090 --> 01:10:38,594
of breaking open and using
the tools differently.

1817
01:10:38,594 --> 01:10:40,290
Oftentimes, you know,

1818
01:10:40,290 --> 01:10:42,330
there's ideas of social
transformation of work,

1819
01:10:42,330 --> 01:10:45,750
and that a tool is often
introduced to society

1820
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:47,760
with particular use.

1821
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,070
It sort of exhausts that user base,

1822
01:10:50,070 --> 01:10:52,740
and then that's the
peak of that hype cycle.

1823
01:10:52,740 --> 01:10:54,720
And then there's kind of a disillusionment

1824
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,450
that it can't transform
everything in our lives,

1825
01:10:57,450 --> 01:10:58,680
or whatever we're trying to do.

1826
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,690
And then people start

1827
01:11:00,690 --> 01:11:03,300
kind of taking advantage of,

1828
01:11:03,300 --> 01:11:05,760
or exploiting some other
things that tool can do.

1829
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,410
I don't know where people
come up with these ideas.

1830
01:11:07,410 --> 01:11:09,330
I think they're amazing, right?

1831
01:11:09,330 --> 01:11:12,363
Let's try this weird thing
that it's not meant to do.

1832
01:11:13,710 --> 01:11:15,660
And then you start to see

1833
01:11:15,660 --> 01:11:18,450
actually what that transformative tool

1834
01:11:18,450 --> 01:11:19,283
can actually do.

1835
01:11:19,283 --> 01:11:20,250
I mean some tools are introduced,

1836
01:11:20,250 --> 01:11:21,267
and they do what they're meant to do,

1837
01:11:21,267 --> 01:11:23,220
and it changes everything.

1838
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:24,960
But most tools go through that,

1839
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,413
and then it's actually that secondary,

1840
01:11:27,413 --> 01:11:30,573
finding new and novel applications.

1841
01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:34,077
So I think probably the biggest risk,

1842
01:11:34,077 --> 01:11:36,150
and I probably am not,

1843
01:11:36,150 --> 01:11:38,250
I think maybe I looked
to you two to answer this

1844
01:11:38,250 --> 01:11:39,083
about bigger risks.

1845
01:11:39,083 --> 01:11:40,920
The biggest risk for me,

1846
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:42,180
'cause I think more and
I see more advantages,

1847
01:11:42,180 --> 01:11:43,740
to starting to break open those tools

1848
01:11:43,740 --> 01:11:44,573
and do new things

1849
01:11:44,573 --> 01:11:46,140
that they weren't intended to do

1850
01:11:46,140 --> 01:11:48,150
or marketed towards.

1851
01:11:48,150 --> 01:11:49,140
That's where we're starting to see

1852
01:11:49,140 --> 01:11:51,300
some of our best outcomes

1853
01:11:51,300 --> 01:11:53,070
with the digital visualization

1854
01:11:53,070 --> 01:11:53,940
and taking like, you know,

1855
01:11:53,940 --> 01:11:55,350
5 or 10 different tools

1856
01:11:55,350 --> 01:11:56,910
and finding out how to put them together

1857
01:11:56,910 --> 01:11:58,710
to do very specific things

1858
01:11:58,710 --> 01:11:59,670
that altogether become

1859
01:11:59,670 --> 01:12:02,940
like a very transformatively
different workflow.

1860
01:12:02,940 --> 01:12:05,700
I think the biggest risk is

1861
01:12:05,700 --> 01:12:09,150
still thinking about how few,

1862
01:12:09,150 --> 01:12:10,740
to your point about adoption,

1863
01:12:10,740 --> 01:12:13,290
how few people, and offices, and agencies,

1864
01:12:13,290 --> 01:12:17,550
can actually end up using
those 5 or 10 tool set

1865
01:12:17,550 --> 01:12:19,140
specialized software,

1866
01:12:19,140 --> 01:12:20,700
years of learning how to do these,

1867
01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:22,680
often inventing these things yourself,

1868
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:24,300
and writing papers about them,

1869
01:12:24,300 --> 01:12:26,911
doesn't transform into
everyday applications

1870
01:12:26,911 --> 01:12:29,580
and the broad transport
power we say they do,

1871
01:12:29,580 --> 01:12:32,580
because somebody in an office

1872
01:12:32,580 --> 01:12:35,160
can't sort of open up one or two tools

1873
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:36,480
and start to explore them,

1874
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:38,640
and do things that they need to do.

1875
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,580
They like hire us to
consult and do these things,

1876
01:12:41,580 --> 01:12:44,520
and there's only one of
us, you know, our group.

1877
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,080
So I think the biggest risk is

1878
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:47,820
that these become more and more bespoke,

1879
01:12:47,820 --> 01:12:49,530
and unique, and specialized,

1880
01:12:49,530 --> 01:12:50,880
and further away from

1881
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:52,320
what made them popular in the first place,

1882
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:53,460
which is,

1883
01:12:53,460 --> 01:12:54,660
most people can use it

1884
01:12:54,660 --> 01:12:56,910
with a little bit of
time spent and learning,

1885
01:12:57,810 --> 01:12:59,070
but I'm sure there are other risks.

1886
01:12:59,070 --> 01:13:01,356
That's the biggest one I
can see is like, you know,

1887
01:13:01,356 --> 01:13:03,180
you get farther and farther away from

1888
01:13:03,180 --> 01:13:05,283
a broad base of users.

1889
01:13:07,500 --> 01:13:08,333
Yeah.

1890
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:11,580
I mean I guess the biggest risk I see

1891
01:13:11,580 --> 01:13:14,040
is that these are big complicated systems

1892
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:15,720
and I appreciate Colin, how you sort of,

1893
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:16,752
you know,

1894
01:13:16,752 --> 01:13:19,170
separated out precision
forest measurement,

1895
01:13:19,170 --> 01:13:20,370
from remote sensing,

1896
01:13:20,370 --> 01:13:22,320
from visualization.

1897
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:23,340
But I think,

1898
01:13:23,340 --> 01:13:25,170
I mean there's obviously other categories,

1899
01:13:25,170 --> 01:13:26,760
but there's also space in between.

1900
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,950
And I think there's many people,

1901
01:13:28,950 --> 01:13:30,540
especially in the carbon crediting world

1902
01:13:30,540 --> 01:13:33,330
that are pushing precision remote sensing,

1903
01:13:33,330 --> 01:13:35,700
and precision remote sensing prediction.

1904
01:13:35,700 --> 01:13:39,123
And so I think there's risks of the hype,

1905
01:13:41,670 --> 01:13:43,320
creating confidence

1906
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,180
that maybe we should be a
little more humble about,

1907
01:13:45,180 --> 01:13:46,800
about what we can and can't do

1908
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,650
to sort of capture emerging markets

1909
01:13:49,650 --> 01:13:50,940
that need to move fast,

1910
01:13:50,940 --> 01:13:52,713
and they need to move now,

1911
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:56,610
and creating systems that
could become problematic

1912
01:13:56,610 --> 01:13:57,443
down the line.

1913
01:13:57,443 --> 01:13:58,462
[Colin] Right.

1914
01:13:58,462 --> 01:13:59,295
While our money,

1915
01:13:59,295 --> 01:14:00,627
money that could go to
actual forest conservation,

1916
01:14:00,627 --> 01:14:03,120
but goes to other forest uses

1917
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:04,410
that may or may not be exactly

1918
01:14:04,410 --> 01:14:05,400
what we thought they were,

1919
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:06,390
but we won't know until

1920
01:14:06,390 --> 01:14:07,223
actually someone

1921
01:14:07,223 --> 01:14:08,460
brings out their prism gauge

1922
01:14:08,460 --> 01:14:09,300
in 20 years,

1923
01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:10,530
and goes and measures it.

1924
01:14:10,530 --> 01:14:11,363
[Colin] Right.

1925
01:14:12,690 --> 01:14:13,680
Yeah. I think about like,

1926
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,273
are there, they,

1927
01:14:16,115 --> 01:14:18,660
a lot of the stuff I've seen
around precision forestry,

1928
01:14:18,660 --> 01:14:20,580
they drop the confidence intervals.

1929
01:14:20,580 --> 01:14:21,413
Yeah.

1930
01:14:21,413 --> 01:14:22,920
They don't even show them.

1931
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:24,920
And it's kind of like, hang on a second.

1932
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:28,350
And I think that the,

1933
01:14:28,350 --> 01:14:30,780
that just raises a red flag for me.

1934
01:14:30,780 --> 01:14:31,613
[Sara] Yeah.

1935
01:14:31,613 --> 01:14:32,610
And again, you,

1936
01:14:32,610 --> 01:14:34,950
if you're in the business of,

1937
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:36,780
if you're in the business
of selling something,

1938
01:14:36,780 --> 01:14:38,903
you don't want to talk
about its weaknesses.

1939
01:14:38,903 --> 01:14:41,187
[Sara] Right.

1940
01:14:41,187 --> 01:14:43,140
And that makes sense from one standpoint,

1941
01:14:43,140 --> 01:14:43,980
from another standpoint,

1942
01:14:43,980 --> 01:14:46,317
there are folks that
have to hold the line,

1943
01:14:46,317 --> 01:14:48,800
and say, what do we really know from this?

1944
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,330
And, I think, you know,

1945
01:14:51,330 --> 01:14:52,200
and I'm interested,

1946
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:53,367
I mean,

1947
01:14:53,367 --> 01:14:54,200
do you agree with me

1948
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:55,980
that not a lot of folks
assess the accuracy of

1949
01:14:55,980 --> 01:14:57,210
their map products?

1950
01:14:57,210 --> 01:14:58,530
I mean, it's not a,

1951
01:14:58,530 --> 01:15:00,600
it's not as common as
you think it should be,

1952
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:02,067
or it would be.

1953
01:15:02,067 --> 01:15:04,170
And I don't even think we have the ability

1954
01:15:04,170 --> 01:15:06,360
to do the level of accuracy assessment

1955
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:07,560
that we need nowadays,

1956
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,410
particularly when it comes
to historical data, right?

1957
01:15:10,410 --> 01:15:11,243
Like, we don't,

1958
01:15:11,243 --> 01:15:13,530
if we want to talk about change over time,

1959
01:15:13,530 --> 01:15:16,200
which I think is so crucial to all of us,

1960
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:17,340
we can't roll back.

1961
01:15:17,340 --> 01:15:21,780
When I do LIDAR based change
detection of forest canopies,

1962
01:15:21,780 --> 01:15:26,280
I don't have the level of
detail from 2012 on the ground

1963
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,660
to say that what I'm estimating
from remotely sensed data

1964
01:15:30,660 --> 01:15:33,780
is anywhere close to it what it,

1965
01:15:33,780 --> 01:15:35,400
what I'm calling it.

1966
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:36,233
Right.

1967
01:15:36,233 --> 01:15:39,720
So the challenge is, nothing's
gonna be perfect, right?

1968
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,690
All models are wrong, some
models are useful, right?

1969
01:15:42,690 --> 01:15:44,343
And so the,

1970
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:47,370
you don't want the perfect
to be the enemy of the good,

1971
01:15:47,370 --> 01:15:49,921
but are you really, you know,

1972
01:15:49,921 --> 01:15:52,200
I do think that there's
some inherent, you know,

1973
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,270
when you see some of
these kinds of data sets

1974
01:15:54,270 --> 01:15:56,610
that we can produce with
LIDAR and things like that,

1975
01:15:56,610 --> 01:15:58,320
they're just very intuitive.

1976
01:15:58,320 --> 01:15:59,153
And because they're,

1977
01:15:59,153 --> 01:16:00,810
and like your visualizations Aidan, like,

1978
01:16:00,810 --> 01:16:01,890
because they're intuitive,

1979
01:16:01,890 --> 01:16:03,730
they convey a certain reality

1980
01:16:04,620 --> 01:16:08,220
and it hides the
uncertainty that's below it.

1981
01:16:08,220 --> 01:16:09,690
And I'm sure you've experienced this,

1982
01:16:09,690 --> 01:16:11,250
I know I have just in the last few years

1983
01:16:11,250 --> 01:16:12,910
of getting really into this space

1984
01:16:13,980 --> 01:16:16,110
as kind of leading these projects

1985
01:16:16,110 --> 01:16:18,570
as opposed to being the
guy that's shaking my fist

1986
01:16:18,570 --> 01:16:20,550
and being like, it's, you
need to go on the woods.

1987
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:21,420
Right?

1988
01:16:21,420 --> 01:16:25,920
But, the challenge is

1989
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,080
to find that line, right?

1990
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:29,100
And that,

1991
01:16:29,100 --> 01:16:32,070
when you're conveying this uncertainty,

1992
01:16:32,070 --> 01:16:34,350
to different end users,

1993
01:16:34,350 --> 01:16:36,270
like do they really grasp it?

1994
01:16:36,270 --> 01:16:37,806
Right?

1995
01:16:37,806 --> 01:16:40,290
And, so you're obviously doing the work

1996
01:16:40,290 --> 01:16:43,020
because you believe it
has power and value,

1997
01:16:43,020 --> 01:16:44,040
and it can move the needle,

1998
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:46,350
and it can lead to a better outcome.

1999
01:16:46,350 --> 01:16:49,198
But you also have to be
humble about it, you know?

2000
01:16:49,198 --> 01:16:50,031
And,

2001
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:52,170
but there will always be someone else

2002
01:16:52,170 --> 01:16:55,320
that chooses not to take
the path of humility, right?

2003
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:57,480
And who makes really great promises

2004
01:16:57,480 --> 01:17:00,000
around their stuff and doesn't really

2005
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,460
think about what it means.

2006
01:17:02,460 --> 01:17:05,890
So yeah, that's not really a question-

2007
01:17:05,890 --> 01:17:07,590
Well, just to speak to that a little bit,

2008
01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:09,510
you know, we've had scenarios where,

2009
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:11,430
so something like a
photoreal visualization,

2010
01:17:11,430 --> 01:17:13,680
you can plaster text right over it

2011
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:15,178
that says this is a simulation,

2012
01:17:15,178 --> 01:17:16,470
and take it away.

2013
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:17,370
And it would just,

2014
01:17:17,370 --> 01:17:19,830
the nature of it looking
like a photograph,

2015
01:17:19,830 --> 01:17:22,926
which is somewhat still considered to be

2016
01:17:22,926 --> 01:17:26,190
a record of what happened,

2017
01:17:26,190 --> 01:17:27,720
means that it will stand out

2018
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,550
as the definitive truth right,

2019
01:17:29,550 --> 01:17:30,720
to people,

2020
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:35,370
probably also these hyperreal captures

2021
01:17:35,370 --> 01:17:37,110
of, they're hyper detailed,

2022
01:17:37,110 --> 01:17:39,780
also look like the
definitive record, right?

2023
01:17:39,780 --> 01:17:41,580
It's said, they say nothing about,

2024
01:17:41,580 --> 01:17:42,900
at least my models say nothing about

2025
01:17:42,900 --> 01:17:44,580
the ecology or the processes,

2026
01:17:44,580 --> 01:17:45,420
it's just a image.

2027
01:17:45,420 --> 01:17:46,530
So we've actually had projects

2028
01:17:46,530 --> 01:17:48,840
where we've backed off of the realism,

2029
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,480
applied like sketchy styles,

2030
01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:53,040
just because we're so nervous

2031
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:54,030
that this is going to,

2032
01:17:54,030 --> 01:17:55,980
and these are more with
historic visualizations,

2033
01:17:55,980 --> 01:17:59,940
that they're going to be sort
of this summative graphic

2034
01:17:59,940 --> 01:18:02,010
that people take away as
oh, that's how it looked.

2035
01:18:02,010 --> 01:18:03,660
You know, you're nodding your head.

2036
01:18:03,660 --> 01:18:04,493
Yeah.

2037
01:18:04,493 --> 01:18:05,940
I, that's awesome.

2038
01:18:05,940 --> 01:18:06,990
I think that's great.

2039
01:18:06,990 --> 01:18:08,460
Aidan, you and I have talked a lot about,

2040
01:18:08,460 --> 01:18:09,814
and one of the things

2041
01:18:09,814 --> 01:18:10,837
that really captured my excitement

2042
01:18:10,837 --> 01:18:12,030
when I first met you

2043
01:18:12,030 --> 01:18:13,110
and started seeing your work

2044
01:18:13,110 --> 01:18:16,230
was the ability that this can,

2045
01:18:16,230 --> 01:18:17,460
can you just talk a little bit about

2046
01:18:17,460 --> 01:18:19,410
like stakeholder engagement

2047
01:18:19,410 --> 01:18:20,697
and being able to,

2048
01:18:20,697 --> 01:18:22,178
and you as well, Sara.

2049
01:18:22,178 --> 01:18:23,070
I mean, I think

2050
01:18:23,070 --> 01:18:25,110
being able to communicate messages

2051
01:18:25,110 --> 01:18:26,910
without having to use charts or graphs,

2052
01:18:26,910 --> 01:18:28,380
which the average person is just,

2053
01:18:28,380 --> 01:18:30,270
they glaze over immediately.

2054
01:18:30,270 --> 01:18:33,660
But being able to put them in
a first person visualization

2055
01:18:33,660 --> 01:18:36,030
of either this is what's
happened over time,

2056
01:18:36,030 --> 01:18:38,340
or this is what's going to happen, right?

2057
01:18:38,340 --> 01:18:40,620
This is what we think is gonna happen,

2058
01:18:40,620 --> 01:18:42,600
or here are alternative scenarios

2059
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,370
of what we could do.

2060
01:18:44,370 --> 01:18:45,203
Right?

2061
01:18:45,203 --> 01:18:47,670
It creates a lot of power

2062
01:18:47,670 --> 01:18:49,020
for engaging people where,

2063
01:18:49,020 --> 01:18:52,710
meeting people where
they are, potentially.

2064
01:18:52,710 --> 01:18:54,270
Can you speak to that a little bit?

2065
01:18:54,270 --> 01:18:55,323
Yeah.

2066
01:18:55,323 --> 01:18:56,156
And then I'll,

2067
01:18:56,156 --> 01:18:57,840
I'd love if Sara follow up,

2068
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,420
I mean there's two pieces
to these virtual forests.

2069
01:19:00,420 --> 01:19:03,660
One is just, and I worry about
this, that they're dazzling.

2070
01:19:03,660 --> 01:19:07,426
They just look so real,
and that, you know,

2071
01:19:07,426 --> 01:19:08,580
I don't know how they'll look in 10 years,

2072
01:19:08,580 --> 01:19:10,560
probably they'll look like something

2073
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,540
that was made 10 years ago looks now,

2074
01:19:12,540 --> 01:19:15,150
but for the moment they look,

2075
01:19:15,150 --> 01:19:15,983
people, I mean,

2076
01:19:15,983 --> 01:19:19,050
so that's one piece of,
of engagement is just,

2077
01:19:19,050 --> 01:19:20,790
they're, people can't
believe what they're seeing,

2078
01:19:20,790 --> 01:19:22,020
and that kind of can be dangerous.

2079
01:19:22,020 --> 01:19:23,760
Like are we actually engaging them,

2080
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:25,710
or are we just engaging their wonder

2081
01:19:25,710 --> 01:19:27,300
with anything that looks hyper real?

2082
01:19:27,300 --> 01:19:28,620
You know?

2083
01:19:28,620 --> 01:19:30,510
But environments are

2084
01:19:30,510 --> 01:19:32,730
the hardest thing to
capture realistically.

2085
01:19:32,730 --> 01:19:36,480
Like a manmade object is
very easy to simulate,

2086
01:19:36,480 --> 01:19:39,030
just because of the
organic and diverse nature

2087
01:19:39,030 --> 01:19:42,090
of every piece of the forest.

2088
01:19:42,090 --> 01:19:44,430
So I do think that there's
some special fascination,

2089
01:19:44,430 --> 01:19:45,450
but people say, I've never,

2090
01:19:45,450 --> 01:19:46,560
I've seen stuff like this,

2091
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:47,910
but it always looks so bad.

2092
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:52,470
But there is a piece of it that, you know,

2093
01:19:52,470 --> 01:19:56,040
taps into, why do we care
about them being so realistic?

2094
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,650
And I think it's
connecting people with that

2095
01:19:58,650 --> 01:20:01,066
sense of awe, something
that's bigger than themselves,

2096
01:20:01,066 --> 01:20:04,170
that they can really
connect with this place.

2097
01:20:04,170 --> 01:20:06,570
That to me is the start
of that conversation.

2098
01:20:06,570 --> 01:20:08,100
We're not just just showing them software

2099
01:20:08,100 --> 01:20:09,540
and they feel like they're
looking at software.

2100
01:20:09,540 --> 01:20:11,940
They've, and we've done,

2101
01:20:11,940 --> 01:20:13,210
Colin's been instrumental

2102
01:20:14,465 --> 01:20:16,020
with years of improving them,

2103
01:20:16,020 --> 01:20:17,070
'cause I certainly don't,

2104
01:20:17,070 --> 01:20:19,020
I'm not a forester,

2105
01:20:19,020 --> 01:20:21,720
so that somebody who knows their land well

2106
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:24,000
knows it, it's ins and outs.

2107
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,980
can actually look at these visualizations

2108
01:20:25,980 --> 01:20:27,521
and feel like they're seeing

2109
01:20:27,521 --> 01:20:29,823
something similar to their land.

2110
01:20:31,170 --> 01:20:35,070
And we'd like to study more
on the end side of this,

2111
01:20:35,070 --> 01:20:37,380
does this actually move the
needle or change behavior?

2112
01:20:37,380 --> 01:20:40,624
And that's like just a very
long process to set up.

2113
01:20:40,624 --> 01:20:42,450
So we mostly look at right now,

2114
01:20:42,450 --> 01:20:46,140
are we getting people to
want to engage with these?

2115
01:20:46,140 --> 01:20:47,730
Are they,

2116
01:20:47,730 --> 01:20:48,810
are they watching them

2117
01:20:48,810 --> 01:20:50,340
for the whole amount of time that we want

2118
01:20:50,340 --> 01:20:52,470
for the message to get across?

2119
01:20:52,470 --> 01:20:54,120
But I would go back to
saying like, you know,

2120
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,130
I've been asked like, why
does it need to be realistic?

2121
01:20:56,130 --> 01:20:58,290
There's plenty of these
virtual forests out there

2122
01:20:58,290 --> 01:21:01,050
where these are just sort of stock trees

2123
01:21:01,050 --> 01:21:03,180
and it is connecting people with

2124
01:21:03,180 --> 01:21:06,330
what we know is one of the
great things about the forest

2125
01:21:06,330 --> 01:21:09,420
is this sense that
you're in this huge thing

2126
01:21:09,420 --> 01:21:10,770
that you can't fully comprehend,

2127
01:21:10,770 --> 01:21:12,755
it as a living ecosystem,

2128
01:21:12,755 --> 01:21:14,850
and sort of this sense of wonder,

2129
01:21:14,850 --> 01:21:16,050
which is kind of funny to think about

2130
01:21:16,050 --> 01:21:17,640
with such a technical message.

2131
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:19,440
But I think that's sort
of where it starts for me,

2132
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:21,870
is getting people to feel
connected to the place

2133
01:21:21,870 --> 01:21:23,640
so that the space can open up for them

2134
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:24,900
to think about it.

2135
01:21:24,900 --> 01:21:26,040
How about you Sara?

2136
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:30,300
Yeah, I think virtual
reality is very cool,

2137
01:21:30,300 --> 01:21:31,140
but I also see it's

2138
01:21:31,140 --> 01:21:34,980
a potential engagement
for promoting action

2139
01:21:34,980 --> 01:21:36,930
and allowing people to visualize in a way

2140
01:21:36,930 --> 01:21:38,340
that they really can't,

2141
01:21:38,340 --> 01:21:40,740
either by traveling many places,

2142
01:21:40,740 --> 01:21:43,620
or access to promoting change.

2143
01:21:43,620 --> 01:21:45,330
And so I'm gonna share a story

2144
01:21:45,330 --> 01:21:47,010
that I don't know
whether it's true or not,

2145
01:21:47,010 --> 01:21:48,450
but now I'm going to spread it widely

2146
01:21:48,450 --> 01:21:49,471
and we'll just make it true.

2147
01:21:49,471 --> 01:21:50,801
(Colin laughing)

2148
01:21:50,801 --> 01:21:51,759
It's on the record now.

2149
01:21:51,759 --> 01:21:52,592
Yeah, it's on the record now.

2150
01:21:52,592 --> 01:21:56,340
The, so I heard from an
entomologist one time,

2151
01:21:56,340 --> 01:21:58,860
that there's a huge federal line item

2152
01:21:58,860 --> 01:22:02,310
for Lymantria dispar control and research.

2153
01:22:02,310 --> 01:22:05,340
The insect now known as spongy moth.

2154
01:22:05,340 --> 01:22:06,420
And if you look at that,

2155
01:22:06,420 --> 01:22:09,210
relative to the many
other pests and pathogens

2156
01:22:09,210 --> 01:22:10,350
that are threatening our forests

2157
01:22:10,350 --> 01:22:12,630
and the emergence, it's sort of dwarfs,

2158
01:22:12,630 --> 01:22:14,970
or sorry, those funding
line items for, you know,

2159
01:22:14,970 --> 01:22:17,070
Cyrex, wood WAFs or these other things,

2160
01:22:17,070 --> 01:22:18,030
are dwarfed by

2161
01:22:18,030 --> 01:22:19,620
what we now just have as like

2162
01:22:19,620 --> 01:22:21,450
a federal line item that
gets passed every year

2163
01:22:21,450 --> 01:22:22,283
for spongy moth.

2164
01:22:22,283 --> 01:22:25,290
And the entomologist who
told me the story said

2165
01:22:25,290 --> 01:22:26,700
the forest service back in the day

2166
01:22:26,700 --> 01:22:28,020
was pushing, and pushing, and pushing,

2167
01:22:28,020 --> 01:22:30,510
and trying to get research into
invasive pests and pathogens

2168
01:22:30,510 --> 01:22:34,050
and just was not making
headway with legislatures.

2169
01:22:34,050 --> 01:22:36,330
They just didn't really care about it,

2170
01:22:36,330 --> 01:22:38,280
except for then there was a retreat

2171
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:40,020
out at Camp David in Maryland,

2172
01:22:40,020 --> 01:22:42,150
and there happened to be in that area

2173
01:22:42,150 --> 01:22:44,010
a spongy moth infestation.

2174
01:22:44,010 --> 01:22:48,090
And the picnic tables
were covered with poop

2175
01:22:48,090 --> 01:22:49,080
from the caterpillars.

2176
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,270
But that allowed for
an engaging discussion

2177
01:22:51,270 --> 01:22:53,220
with policy makers and legislatures

2178
01:22:53,220 --> 01:22:55,200
to say like, what is this, this is wild.

2179
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,211
Camp David has never
looked like this before.

2180
01:22:57,211 --> 01:22:59,910
This is what spongy moth infestations do.

2181
01:22:59,910 --> 01:23:02,580
And it allowed this entry point

2182
01:23:02,580 --> 01:23:04,230
for ecologists and foresters

2183
01:23:04,230 --> 01:23:06,207
to go in and talk about
the impacts of the forest.

2184
01:23:06,207 --> 01:23:09,690
And so while we probably
can't engage with, you know,

2185
01:23:09,690 --> 01:23:11,910
beech bark disease, or
these others and you know,

2186
01:23:11,910 --> 01:23:13,650
introduce them to Camp David, you know,

2187
01:23:13,650 --> 01:23:16,920
at ideal times when policy
makers will be out there,

2188
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:18,960
we can have Aidan bring in,

2189
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,570
for Senator Leahy to
share with his colleagues,

2190
01:23:21,570 --> 01:23:23,310
these visual reality of,

2191
01:23:23,310 --> 01:23:25,290
this is what a forest looks like now,

2192
01:23:25,290 --> 01:23:26,700
and this is what it could look like,

2193
01:23:26,700 --> 01:23:28,740
under these different circumstances,

2194
01:23:28,740 --> 01:23:30,510
and hey, we have a bunch of, you know,

2195
01:23:30,510 --> 01:23:31,800
people who are on the ground

2196
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:33,017
and who are ready to do the research

2197
01:23:33,017 --> 01:23:34,650
and to figure out what's going on.

2198
01:23:34,650 --> 01:23:37,470
And I see that being
a really powerful tool

2199
01:23:37,470 --> 01:23:38,850
that could be really well engaged,

2200
01:23:38,850 --> 01:23:40,170
and where precision,

2201
01:23:40,170 --> 01:23:44,250
where having it look
really real is awesome,

2202
01:23:44,250 --> 01:23:46,320
but the precision doesn't
necessarily need to be there

2203
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:47,520
that we're promising in terms of,

2204
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:50,040
though that tree definitely
has a knot, you know,

2205
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:52,680
this far up the tree, and
there's this much carbon,

2206
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,015
but just enough to give that sense.

2207
01:23:55,015 --> 01:23:57,432
(indistinct)

2208
01:24:02,100 --> 01:24:05,250
God, to, that could see that right?

2209
01:24:05,250 --> 01:24:07,620
That virtualization,

2210
01:24:07,620 --> 01:24:11,610
and come to some conclusions
as politicians do

2211
01:24:11,610 --> 01:24:13,950
and make some assumptions,

2212
01:24:13,950 --> 01:24:17,910
and then suddenly force
money into this thing that,

2213
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:22,230
you know, says we cannot
cut another beech ever.

2214
01:24:22,230 --> 01:24:24,480
And I'm gonna make a law
that says no more beech,

2215
01:24:24,480 --> 01:24:27,420
it's against the law, and you're
gonna be thrown into jail,

2216
01:24:27,420 --> 01:24:29,550
because I saw what happened.

2217
01:24:29,550 --> 01:24:30,383
[Sara] Yeah.

2218
01:24:30,383 --> 01:24:31,920
You know, and, you know, and you go,

2219
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:32,820
well what did you see?

2220
01:24:32,820 --> 01:24:34,140
Well, I got this virtual thing

2221
01:24:34,140 --> 01:24:36,210
and they showed me what the
forest is gonna look like

2222
01:24:36,210 --> 01:24:37,830
in the deep Adirondacks,

2223
01:24:37,830 --> 01:24:39,570
which is supposed to be forever wild,

2224
01:24:39,570 --> 01:24:40,410
and there's no beech,

2225
01:24:40,410 --> 01:24:41,310
and there's nothing left.

2226
01:24:41,310 --> 01:24:42,143
Oh my God.

2227
01:24:42,143 --> 01:24:42,976
It was horrible.

2228
01:24:42,976 --> 01:24:43,809
And you're like, whoa.

2229
01:24:43,809 --> 01:24:47,280
that was a total misinterpretation
of the intention,

2230
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:49,980
which is to sink money into, you know,

2231
01:24:49,980 --> 01:24:52,336
invasive species research,
or something like that.

2232
01:24:52,336 --> 01:24:53,169
[Sara] Yeah.

2233
01:24:53,169 --> 01:24:54,870
So it seems like a lot of times

2234
01:24:54,870 --> 01:24:56,220
these things always go in that direction.

2235
01:24:56,220 --> 01:24:59,880
How do you, I mean, I guess you can't,

2236
01:24:59,880 --> 01:25:01,740
it's a, you can't protect-

2237
01:25:01,740 --> 01:25:03,030
[Colin] Once the cat's out of the bag,

2238
01:25:03,030 --> 01:25:03,863
you can't really-

2239
01:25:03,863 --> 01:25:05,670
Right. Right. Exactly-

2240
01:25:05,670 --> 01:25:06,630
[Colin] But. I think, I mean,

2241
01:25:06,630 --> 01:25:08,940
not to bounce it back at you Justin,

2242
01:25:08,940 --> 01:25:11,220
but I mean that's kind of the
job of the agencies right?

2243
01:25:11,220 --> 01:25:12,720
Is to correct their legislators.

2244
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:15,150
Well, and, and that's, you know-

2245
01:25:16,067 --> 01:25:17,160
I'm say that as an academic, right?

2246
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:18,687
I'm honestly listening to this

2247
01:25:18,687 --> 01:25:22,290
and I'm trying to see how we apply it all.

2248
01:25:22,290 --> 01:25:23,439
Like we,

2249
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:24,272
when we talk about the remote sensing

2250
01:25:24,272 --> 01:25:25,620
and the aerial stuff,

2251
01:25:25,620 --> 01:25:27,750
the idea from our perspective,

2252
01:25:27,750 --> 01:25:29,790
looking at New York state, right?

2253
01:25:29,790 --> 01:25:31,950
It's a vast forest

2254
01:25:31,950 --> 01:25:34,650
and 90% of the population
that votes in New York state

2255
01:25:34,650 --> 01:25:36,630
has no idea that forest exists, right?

2256
01:25:36,630 --> 01:25:38,847
So I could see the opportunities

2257
01:25:38,847 --> 01:25:41,160
and the complications to that.

2258
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:42,750
But when it comes to,

2259
01:25:42,750 --> 01:25:43,890
we don't care what people think,

2260
01:25:43,890 --> 01:25:45,450
what we care about is the forest itself.

2261
01:25:45,450 --> 01:25:49,650
So our job is to see that invasion

2262
01:25:49,650 --> 01:25:50,940
before it becomes a problem.

2263
01:25:50,940 --> 01:25:51,990
And we do that.

2264
01:25:51,990 --> 01:25:54,150
The easiest way we do
that is aerially, right?

2265
01:25:54,150 --> 01:25:56,460
We somehow get up and we fly over,

2266
01:25:56,460 --> 01:25:58,800
and if we see something that
sticks out like a sore thumb,

2267
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:00,060
we go investigate it,

2268
01:26:00,060 --> 01:26:02,940
and hopefully we catch that
disease before it goes rampant.

2269
01:26:02,940 --> 01:26:06,900
And that's where I see the
power of this aerial and,

2270
01:26:06,900 --> 01:26:08,911
and remote sensing.

2271
01:26:08,911 --> 01:26:13,860
And I want you guys to
continue working on that stuff

2272
01:26:13,860 --> 01:26:16,110
and get it focused in

2273
01:26:16,110 --> 01:26:18,480
so that one, it's useful

2274
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:19,980
and two, it's available,

2275
01:26:19,980 --> 01:26:21,187
i.e. cheap, you know, and,

2276
01:26:21,187 --> 01:26:24,540
but I know that me being the audience

2277
01:26:24,540 --> 01:26:25,617
is not the landowner, right?

2278
01:26:25,617 --> 01:26:27,970
The landowner doesn't give a hoot about

2279
01:26:28,950 --> 01:26:32,220
the cost and the evaluation
of a remote sensing,

2280
01:26:32,220 --> 01:26:33,780
satellite imagery, whatever.

2281
01:26:33,780 --> 01:26:35,040
What they do care about is, geez,

2282
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:38,250
my tree turned orange in the back

2283
01:26:38,250 --> 01:26:39,870
and now you're knocking on my door.

2284
01:26:39,870 --> 01:26:42,660
How the heck did you know my
tree was orange in the back?

2285
01:26:42,660 --> 01:26:44,850
And please tell me what's killing it.

2286
01:26:44,850 --> 01:26:46,050
Suddenly there's a connection.

2287
01:26:46,050 --> 01:26:46,883
'Cause I think that,

2288
01:26:46,883 --> 01:26:50,340
just like that politician
seeing the visual thing,

2289
01:26:50,340 --> 01:26:52,320
and then suddenly making all these rules,

2290
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:55,890
The landowner doesn't
care about the world.

2291
01:26:55,890 --> 01:26:58,260
What they care about is why my tree

2292
01:26:58,260 --> 01:27:00,390
is turning orange in the back.

2293
01:27:00,390 --> 01:27:03,660
And that's like suddenly where
I see the connection with,

2294
01:27:03,660 --> 01:27:05,250
you know, all this information,

2295
01:27:05,250 --> 01:27:07,590
this vast information
that we're developing,

2296
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:09,030
we're figuring out,

2297
01:27:09,030 --> 01:27:10,380
and then putting it on the ground,

2298
01:27:10,380 --> 01:27:11,850
and suddenly having that landowner

2299
01:27:11,850 --> 01:27:14,190
doesn't care about anything that we do

2300
01:27:14,190 --> 01:27:16,350
except why their tree is dying.

2301
01:27:16,350 --> 01:27:17,310
I think that's,

2302
01:27:17,310 --> 01:27:18,870
as long as we can make that connection,

2303
01:27:18,870 --> 01:27:21,170
that's the value and the
importance of it all.

2304
01:27:22,113 --> 01:27:23,040
[Colin] And Justin, I just wanna say,

2305
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:24,930
I think the idea, at least for,

2306
01:27:24,930 --> 01:27:27,030
I don't wanna speak for Aidan, but for me,

2307
01:27:27,030 --> 01:27:29,905
with these visualizations is

2308
01:27:29,905 --> 01:27:32,940
that you're curating what
you're showing in the message.

2309
01:27:32,940 --> 01:27:35,460
And you're, as we know, when
we're talking to legislatures,

2310
01:27:35,460 --> 01:27:36,930
we gotta aim for a third grade level.

2311
01:27:36,930 --> 01:27:39,180
And I'm not being snarky. It's true.

2312
01:27:39,180 --> 01:27:41,043
That's what I'm told all the time.

2313
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:45,030
When you know, and with
these visualizations,

2314
01:27:45,030 --> 01:27:46,350
you make the message very clear

2315
01:27:46,350 --> 01:27:47,910
and you make it visual

2316
01:27:47,910 --> 01:27:50,040
and you can show people.

2317
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:51,570
Like for example, the,

2318
01:27:51,570 --> 01:27:53,220
and this is where it all comes together,

2319
01:27:53,220 --> 01:27:54,053
at least for me,

2320
01:27:54,053 --> 01:27:55,590
is that if you're doing remote sensing

2321
01:27:55,590 --> 01:27:58,230
to detect forest health problems,

2322
01:27:58,230 --> 01:28:00,000
if you want to then take action, right?

2323
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:01,050
As the resource steward,

2324
01:28:01,050 --> 01:28:03,630
that one responsible for
protecting the resource,

2325
01:28:03,630 --> 01:28:05,730
you're probably going to
need to take some actions

2326
01:28:05,730 --> 01:28:07,710
that some stakeholders are not gonna like,

2327
01:28:07,710 --> 01:28:09,150
it might be politically problematic,

2328
01:28:09,150 --> 01:28:11,160
especially like in the forest preserve,

2329
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:12,480
the Adirondack part, right?

2330
01:28:12,480 --> 01:28:14,893
Where you have some limitations,

2331
01:28:14,893 --> 01:28:16,410
at least politically,

2332
01:28:16,410 --> 01:28:17,760
as to what you can do there

2333
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:19,950
in terms of silviculture, sanitation,

2334
01:28:19,950 --> 01:28:21,780
harvesting, that type of thing.

2335
01:28:21,780 --> 01:28:24,660
If you can illustrate to an audience,

2336
01:28:24,660 --> 01:28:28,680
like if we just sit there
and leave it alone, right?

2337
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:31,410
This is the likely outcome, right?

2338
01:28:31,410 --> 01:28:32,820
If we take action,

2339
01:28:32,820 --> 01:28:35,820
we can potentially lead
to a better outcome.

2340
01:28:35,820 --> 01:28:38,850
And you try to curate the message in a way

2341
01:28:38,850 --> 01:28:40,440
that it's hard to misinterpret,

2342
01:28:40,440 --> 01:28:42,240
which, and it still can be,

2343
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:46,260
but that you try to
really focus it in and,

2344
01:28:46,260 --> 01:28:47,790
and you also really want
to make it data driven

2345
01:28:47,790 --> 01:28:49,290
so you're not accused of just,

2346
01:28:49,290 --> 01:28:50,880
like waving your hands around

2347
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:53,608
and imagining a better future.

2348
01:28:53,608 --> 01:28:56,691
(indistinct comment)

2349
01:29:06,630 --> 01:29:08,250
They go to the property owner,

2350
01:29:08,250 --> 01:29:10,620
or they do the talk at the community,

2351
01:29:10,620 --> 01:29:12,030
and so much of the information,

2352
01:29:12,030 --> 01:29:16,440
it's like they know, they know
what they're saying is right.

2353
01:29:16,440 --> 01:29:17,647
But it's anecdotal, right?

2354
01:29:17,647 --> 01:29:19,830
You know, well how do you know that

2355
01:29:19,830 --> 01:29:22,440
if we don't do anything,
all the ash are gonna die?

2356
01:29:22,440 --> 01:29:24,450
Well because the, you know,

2357
01:29:24,450 --> 01:29:26,520
go to Michigan, they're all dead.

2358
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:27,360
I mean, it's gonna happen.

2359
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:28,950
You guys gotta prepare yourselves.

2360
01:29:28,950 --> 01:29:29,783
We'll work on it.

2361
01:29:29,783 --> 01:29:31,950
We have so many other things
that we have to worry about.

2362
01:29:31,950 --> 01:29:32,940
10 years later, you know,

2363
01:29:32,940 --> 01:29:34,470
all their ash trees are dead,

2364
01:29:34,470 --> 01:29:36,450
and they're going, ah,

2365
01:29:36,450 --> 01:29:38,370
we need the government to
come in and pay for this

2366
01:29:38,370 --> 01:29:39,990
because we didn't know
this was gonna happen.

2367
01:29:39,990 --> 01:29:41,100
We're like, well 10 years ago

2368
01:29:41,100 --> 01:29:42,627
we actually told you it was gonna happen,

2369
01:29:42,627 --> 01:29:44,610
and we told you to plan for it.

2370
01:29:44,610 --> 01:29:46,230
You know, so I, you know,

2371
01:29:46,230 --> 01:29:50,190
I guess getting that anecdotal information

2372
01:29:50,190 --> 01:29:53,945
and making it, proving
it, you know, with your,

2373
01:29:53,945 --> 01:29:56,165
with the things you do-

2374
01:29:56,165 --> 01:29:56,998
[Colin] Yeah.

2375
01:29:56,998 --> 01:29:57,831
At the universities.

2376
01:29:57,831 --> 01:30:00,210
That's where I think that
that that really helps.

2377
01:30:00,210 --> 01:30:02,580
And I know, and I appreciate
where you're coming from,

2378
01:30:02,580 --> 01:30:04,152
where you're still working on it.

2379
01:30:04,152 --> 01:30:05,437
But boy, if you're working on it

2380
01:30:05,437 --> 01:30:06,660
and then, you know,

2381
01:30:06,660 --> 01:30:08,610
the hard part here is in with technology

2382
01:30:08,610 --> 01:30:09,570
is you're working on it,

2383
01:30:09,570 --> 01:30:10,403
you're working on it,

2384
01:30:10,403 --> 01:30:11,236
and you're starting to get close,

2385
01:30:11,236 --> 01:30:13,023
but then the technology changes,

2386
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:15,270
and then you're doing
something completely different.

2387
01:30:15,270 --> 01:30:17,940
I mean, you guys have been
saying this, all of you,

2388
01:30:17,940 --> 01:30:20,700
that by the time we get
to figuring one thing out,

2389
01:30:20,700 --> 01:30:21,870
the technology changes

2390
01:30:21,870 --> 01:30:23,580
and we're starting to do something else.

2391
01:30:23,580 --> 01:30:26,670
And then we look back to our
old data to try to compare.

2392
01:30:26,670 --> 01:30:29,580
And there you can't, it's
completely different.

2393
01:30:29,580 --> 01:30:31,140
We better figure that out

2394
01:30:31,140 --> 01:30:32,880
because eventually it's
gonna get to the point

2395
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:34,873
where no one's gonna
wanna listen to any of us.

2396
01:30:34,873 --> 01:30:36,060
'Cause you know,

2397
01:30:36,060 --> 01:30:38,070
you're gonna contradict
yourself in two years.

2398
01:30:38,070 --> 01:30:39,300
Come on.

2399
01:30:39,300 --> 01:30:40,133
[Jarlath] Yeah.

2400
01:30:40,133 --> 01:30:42,420
Well, I think one of the things that we,

2401
01:30:42,420 --> 01:30:44,070
another mistake we've made,

2402
01:30:44,070 --> 01:30:45,900
and especially with remote sensing,

2403
01:30:45,900 --> 01:30:48,600
is this move to
quantification of everything.

2404
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,840
So remote sensing was
highly qualitative, right?

2405
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,120
Forestry, remote sensing, trade craft,

2406
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:55,770
came outta World War II,

2407
01:30:55,770 --> 01:30:57,360
highly qualitative, right?

2408
01:30:57,360 --> 01:30:59,070
People trying to figure things out,

2409
01:30:59,070 --> 01:31:01,710
and aerial photos,
high-resolution aerial photos

2410
01:31:01,710 --> 01:31:03,300
were always very, very powerful,

2411
01:31:03,300 --> 01:31:06,030
combined with ground information.

2412
01:31:06,030 --> 01:31:08,130
They helped us tell a story,

2413
01:31:08,130 --> 01:31:10,350
which is what you're trying
to do with VR, right?

2414
01:31:10,350 --> 01:31:11,490
Like, we want to tell a story,

2415
01:31:11,490 --> 01:31:14,160
and now we've had this
impulse to quantify everything

2416
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:16,710
so we can produce bar charts and p values

2417
01:31:16,710 --> 01:31:18,780
and all of this stuff, which
I'm not convinced makes,

2418
01:31:18,780 --> 01:31:20,550
helps us make better decisions.

2419
01:31:20,550 --> 01:31:23,730
And one of the reasons why
I love drone technology

2420
01:31:23,730 --> 01:31:26,880
is because you can sort of do
what we used to do a lot of,

2421
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:29,580
which is just take high
resolution ariel photos,

2422
01:31:29,580 --> 01:31:32,040
and they, you immediately understand them.

2423
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:33,240
Unlike satellite images,

2424
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:34,170
which are too course,

2425
01:31:34,170 --> 01:31:37,170
and have a lot of these
values and things like that,

2426
01:31:37,170 --> 01:31:39,690
they immediately
communicate to the landowner

2427
01:31:39,690 --> 01:31:41,820
and enhance their understanding

2428
01:31:41,820 --> 01:31:44,190
and validate their understanding
of their landscape,

2429
01:31:44,190 --> 01:31:46,380
and also produce a valuable record.

2430
01:31:46,380 --> 01:31:48,960
And I think when we look at
some technologies that are

2431
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:50,310
successful, right?

2432
01:31:50,310 --> 01:31:53,070
Like GPS, just, it's
really, really simple.

2433
01:31:53,070 --> 01:31:54,690
It's easy to understand.

2434
01:31:54,690 --> 01:31:56,070
And so it's widely adopted.

2435
01:31:56,070 --> 01:31:58,440
It's something that any of you
were to go out to the field

2436
01:31:58,440 --> 01:32:01,551
and we're gonna say, don't get
coordinates for that, right?

2437
01:32:01,551 --> 01:32:02,550
You think that's a little bit strange.

2438
01:32:02,550 --> 01:32:05,100
And I think things like drones
will just be allow us like,

2439
01:32:05,100 --> 01:32:05,933
hey, when we're out there,

2440
01:32:05,933 --> 01:32:07,710
let's just get a photo of the area.

2441
01:32:07,710 --> 01:32:10,290
We don't have to quantify, we
don't have to run AI on it.

2442
01:32:10,290 --> 01:32:12,060
We don't have to extract all the species.

2443
01:32:12,060 --> 01:32:13,230
Let's just have a record there

2444
01:32:13,230 --> 01:32:14,340
so that we can look back

2445
01:32:14,340 --> 01:32:16,950
and see if it matches up
with our stuff on the ground.

2446
01:32:16,950 --> 01:32:18,616
And I think the best technologies,

2447
01:32:18,616 --> 01:32:21,570
especially in the places we operate in,

2448
01:32:21,570 --> 01:32:24,060
where we're probably not always

2449
01:32:24,060 --> 01:32:25,740
doing these industrial operations,

2450
01:32:25,740 --> 01:32:26,970
are gonna be simple ones

2451
01:32:26,970 --> 01:32:28,770
that landowners can employ

2452
01:32:28,770 --> 01:32:31,050
that are low cost, highly reliable,

2453
01:32:31,050 --> 01:32:33,573
and allow us to make better decisions.

2454
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:35,850
[Colin] Well said.

2455
01:32:35,850 --> 01:32:36,683
[Elissa] All right.

2456
01:32:36,683 --> 01:32:38,760
I think that I have to,

2457
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:41,292
this has been a wonderful conversation,

2458
01:32:41,292 --> 01:32:42,810
and really exciting panel.

2459
01:32:42,810 --> 01:32:46,950
I'm going to keep us moving
on the course of the day.

2460
01:32:46,950 --> 01:32:50,520
So I would really love to
thank all of our panelists and,

2461
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:54,150
and Colin especially for
wonderful presentation

2462
01:32:54,150 --> 01:32:55,473
and discussion.

2463
01:32:56,617 --> 01:32:57,450
So-

2464
01:32:57,450 --> 01:33:00,450
(audience clapping)

2465
01:33:04,500 --> 01:33:06,240
And I do encourage all of you

2466
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:07,890
to continue talking about this

2467
01:33:07,890 --> 01:33:10,020
throughout the course of the day.

2468
01:33:10,020 --> 01:33:12,870
I'm sure that they'd be happy
to talk to you more about it

2469
01:33:12,870 --> 01:33:15,362
as you see them in the space

2470
01:33:15,362 --> 01:33:18,300
and think about it as you're attending

2471
01:33:18,300 --> 01:33:20,130
the contributed talk sessions

2472
01:33:20,130 --> 01:33:21,930
and over lunch.

2473
01:33:21,930 --> 01:33:26,930
So these are some great pieces
of things to think about.

2474
01:33:27,180 --> 01:33:29,962
And one thing that I
was thinking about is,

2475
01:33:29,962 --> 01:33:33,090
I do want to recognize
our virtual audience.

2476
01:33:33,090 --> 01:33:36,420
And I was thinking about
where hybrid conferences

2477
01:33:36,420 --> 01:33:37,680
land on the hype cycle,

2478
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:38,880
and I don't really know,

2479
01:33:39,750 --> 01:33:42,180
I'm really hoping they're on the plateau.

2480
01:33:42,180 --> 01:33:44,372
[Colin] Teaching on Zoom is in the trough.

2481
01:33:44,372 --> 01:33:45,205
Yeah.

2482
01:33:45,205 --> 01:33:46,038
[Colin] Disillusionment.

2483
01:33:46,038 --> 01:33:47,670
(Elissa laughing)

2484
01:33:47,670 --> 01:33:49,200
But I do want to, you know,

2485
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:50,760
recognize and thank all of the people

2486
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:53,760
who are attending virtually,

2487
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:57,450
and we look forward to seeing
you again in person soon.

2488
01:33:57,450 --> 01:34:01,710
And please do send in
questions on the chat

2489
01:34:01,710 --> 01:34:04,050
while you're attending different sessions.

2490
01:34:04,050 --> 01:34:06,150
And for the plan for the rest of the day,

2491
01:34:06,150 --> 01:34:09,030
right now we have a short coffee break,

2492
01:34:09,030 --> 01:34:12,840
then we'll meet back in here at 11

2493
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:15,840
to learn a little bit about the FEMC

2494
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:17,760
and work with our state coordinators.

2495
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:20,310
And so come back here at 11 to

2496
01:34:20,310 --> 01:34:24,660
hear what is being done
in each of the states.

2497
01:34:24,660 --> 01:34:27,270
Then that will be followed by

2498
01:34:27,270 --> 01:34:29,280
our first contributed talk session.

2499
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:30,717
And those will be in the,

2500
01:34:30,717 --> 01:34:33,600
the rooms on your agendas,

2501
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:35,490
and down the hall.

2502
01:34:35,490 --> 01:34:38,400
And that will be followed then by lunch.

2503
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,400
So we'll be back in this space

2504
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:43,620
and in the other side of this room

2505
01:34:43,620 --> 01:34:48,620
where we can continue to gather
and talk, to share ideas.

2506
01:34:49,230 --> 01:34:53,823
And then the rest of the
day, more contributed talks,

2507
01:34:54,660 --> 01:34:55,680
working sessions.

2508
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:57,270
We have three working sessions.

2509
01:34:57,270 --> 01:34:59,553
Two are available virtually and,

2510
01:35:00,684 --> 01:35:03,810
and three are available here in person.

2511
01:35:03,810 --> 01:35:08,810
And then the poster
session and social hour.

2512
01:35:09,030 --> 01:35:12,300
So I hope everybody has a wonderful day

2513
01:35:12,300 --> 01:35:15,940
and I look forward to talking to everyone

2514
01:35:16,830 --> 01:35:18,660
all throughout the day.

2515
01:35:18,660 --> 01:35:20,694
[Colin] Thanks, Elissa.

2516
01:35:20,694 --> 01:35:23,694
(audience clapping)