1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,160 [Dr. Benes] Hello everyone, thanks for coming today. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,170 My name is Dr. Benes, 3 00:00:07,170 --> 00:00:09,300 I'm an Assistant Director within the office 4 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:11,970 of the Vice President for Research here at UVM. 5 00:00:11,970 --> 00:00:15,540 I work on projects related to the University's natural areas 6 00:00:15,540 --> 00:00:18,180 and mountain environmental science, 7 00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:21,750 and I've been starting to get more involved 8 00:00:21,750 --> 00:00:25,170 in these various projects involving 9 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:28,800 regional snow and mountain weather observation networks. 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,360 Last year I was involved, hosted a working group session 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,070 similar to this one last year as well, 12 00:00:35,070 --> 00:00:37,740 focused on forming regional networks 13 00:00:37,740 --> 00:00:39,540 of mountain observatories in the Northeast. 14 00:00:39,540 --> 00:00:44,540 I was really thankful for the opportunity 15 00:00:44,670 --> 00:00:46,260 to have that working session last year, 16 00:00:46,260 --> 00:00:49,230 and the following discussions that led 17 00:00:49,230 --> 00:00:51,240 out of that working session. 18 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,570 Been hosting a monthly seminar series 19 00:00:54,570 --> 00:00:57,390 for mountain observatories in the northeast 20 00:00:57,390 --> 00:00:59,100 in which different partners across the region 21 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:03,240 have been giving presentations and sharing information 22 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,880 about the work that they do 23 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,480 for monitoring and research on mountains across the region. 24 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,650 And most recently have been collaborating with 25 00:01:13,650 --> 00:01:15,330 the Atmospheric Sciences Research Center 26 00:01:15,330 --> 00:01:16,410 on Whiteface Mountain, New York, 27 00:01:16,410 --> 00:01:20,070 Paul Casson is here today representing that group 28 00:01:20,070 --> 00:01:22,590 and the Mount Washington Observatory 29 00:01:22,590 --> 00:01:26,160 to develop a new mountain observatory network 30 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,270 across the region, which I'll talk about more shortly. 31 00:01:30,270 --> 00:01:33,600 I'm really also pleased to have Erika Rowland here today. 32 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,430 Erika is the Eastern Director at the Forest Stewards Guild. 33 00:01:38,430 --> 00:01:40,980 The Forest Stewards Guild is a collaborator 34 00:01:40,980 --> 00:01:44,280 on this new Northeast Snow Study Project 35 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,930 that I'm involved in. 36 00:01:45,930 --> 00:01:50,190 And Erika has a bulk of experience in facilitating 37 00:01:50,190 --> 00:01:53,190 conservation practitioners to build understanding 38 00:01:53,190 --> 00:01:55,200 and begin planning for climate change. 39 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,320 And she lives on the Maine-New Hampshire border 40 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,540 in the foothills of the White Mountains, 41 00:02:00,540 --> 00:02:02,790 so really appreciate her coming up today to Burlington 42 00:02:02,790 --> 00:02:04,980 and being part of this working group session. 43 00:02:04,980 --> 00:02:07,684 Erika, anything else you'd wanna share? 44 00:02:07,684 --> 00:02:08,851 Okay, awesome. 45 00:02:12,593 --> 00:02:15,450 Wanted to start off this working group session 46 00:02:15,450 --> 00:02:18,120 just reflecting on FEMCs number one goal, 47 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,150 which is to contribute to the efficient coordination 48 00:02:21,150 --> 00:02:24,300 of multidisciplinary environmental monitoring 49 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:26,070 and research activities. 50 00:02:26,070 --> 00:02:29,790 And I believe that mountain weather observations, 51 00:02:29,790 --> 00:02:34,790 as well as snow monitoring, is central to understanding 52 00:02:39,213 --> 00:02:42,300 and better considering management and protection 53 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:43,620 of forest and ecosystems. 54 00:02:43,620 --> 00:02:47,160 Everything from weather to snow 55 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:52,160 has interdisciplinary impacts across the region. 56 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,210 And I believe that there's a lot of different studies 57 00:02:57,210 --> 00:02:59,880 and a lot of different collective understanding 58 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,040 that we can gather about our ecosystems 59 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,863 by better understanding weather and snow. 60 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,630 The Forest Ecosystem Monitoring Cooperative as well, 61 00:03:09,630 --> 00:03:12,420 so I started off on the first slide here 62 00:03:12,420 --> 00:03:16,653 with a photo of Mount Mansfield by the Spatial Analysis Lab. 63 00:03:18,270 --> 00:03:21,780 On Mount Mansfield, the FEMC has been involved 64 00:03:21,780 --> 00:03:25,350 in over 30-years of long-term ecosystem monitoring 65 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:27,630 and research on the mountain. 66 00:03:27,630 --> 00:03:29,610 And so this is one image 67 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:33,150 of three different watersheds on the mountain. 68 00:03:33,150 --> 00:03:35,010 The star is where the proposed 69 00:03:35,010 --> 00:03:38,100 Mount Mansfield Science and Stewardship Center would be. 70 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:41,820 And all of the other dots are locations 71 00:03:41,820 --> 00:03:45,630 of monitoring sites associated with the FEMC 72 00:03:45,630 --> 00:03:47,160 and their long-term monitoring. 73 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,800 And so they've been really focusing on 74 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,750 this interdisciplinary monitoring 75 00:03:51,750 --> 00:03:53,550 on and around the mountain. 76 00:03:53,550 --> 00:03:54,810 They have two weather stations, 77 00:03:54,810 --> 00:03:57,720 about 2,900-feet on each side of the mountain, 78 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,410 that they've been maintaining since the 1990s as well. 79 00:04:01,410 --> 00:04:05,850 So lots of opportunity to leverage the long-term monitoring 80 00:04:05,850 --> 00:04:08,463 that's in place thanks to the FEMC. 81 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,790 Also wanted to point out some of these 82 00:04:11,790 --> 00:04:16,790 long alpine research priorities set by Capers et. al. 2013. 83 00:04:18,630 --> 00:04:22,320 These 25-different researchers responded to a survey 84 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,260 about one-decade ago and ranked research priorities. 85 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:30,260 And today we're focusing on two of their 86 00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:32,550 six research priorities. 87 00:04:32,550 --> 00:04:36,330 Number one, focusing on snow cover and timing of snow melt. 88 00:04:36,330 --> 00:04:39,540 And number five, characterizing variation in weather. 89 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:42,330 And again, I believe that these two elements 90 00:04:42,330 --> 00:04:45,750 are also tied to understanding impacts of climate 91 00:04:45,750 --> 00:04:47,370 and long-term monitoring, 92 00:04:47,370 --> 00:04:51,660 which feed into all of the other priorities 93 00:04:51,660 --> 00:04:54,183 that were established by these researchers. 94 00:04:55,860 --> 00:05:00,060 I wanted to also point to this fairly new network 95 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:02,400 that has been established at the University of Vermont 96 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,440 called the Cold Weather Summit-to-Shore 97 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,290 Environmental Observation Network. 98 00:05:07,290 --> 00:05:09,390 It is funded by the Cold Region's Research 99 00:05:09,390 --> 00:05:11,940 and Engineering Laboratory or CRREL 100 00:05:11,940 --> 00:05:14,880 And Dr. Arne Bomblies is the PI in the project. 101 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,360 And Dr. Beverly Wemple, who's with us today, is the co-PI. 102 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,710 And Anna Grunes is also a graduate student on the project 103 00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:26,670 and she has a poster out in the poster hall. 104 00:05:26,670 --> 00:05:28,620 So I encourage you all to visit her poster 105 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:29,453 and learn more about the 106 00:05:29,453 --> 00:05:31,230 Cold Weather Summit-to-Shore Project 107 00:05:31,230 --> 00:05:33,300 after this working session. 108 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:36,420 But there are 22-different weather stations 109 00:05:36,420 --> 00:05:40,470 that run along a transect that spans from Lake Champlain 110 00:05:40,470 --> 00:05:42,210 to the top of Mount Mansfield 111 00:05:42,210 --> 00:05:45,480 and across into the northeast kingdom of Vermont. 112 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,600 And all of these different monitoring stations 113 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,290 have solar radiation sensors, snow depth sensors, 114 00:05:52,290 --> 00:05:55,890 a meteorological platform that measures temperature, 115 00:05:55,890 --> 00:05:58,740 relative humidity, wind speed and direction 116 00:05:58,740 --> 00:06:02,400 and precipitation, snowpack temperature ladders, 117 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,110 a soil heat flux plate, 118 00:06:04,110 --> 00:06:06,660 and soil and moisture temperature sensors 119 00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:10,020 at five, 10 and 30-centimeters. 120 00:06:10,020 --> 00:06:13,410 And four of these stations have, 121 00:06:13,410 --> 00:06:15,870 which are indicated in blue here, 122 00:06:15,870 --> 00:06:19,080 have Sommer aluminum snow scales 123 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,050 to measure snow water equivalent or SWE, 124 00:06:22,050 --> 00:06:24,210 and a Sommer snowpack analyzer 125 00:06:24,210 --> 00:06:27,300 that records important parameters of the snowpack 126 00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:30,693 to support predictions about snow melting processes. 127 00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:36,590 And most recently, this network will be integrated 128 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,060 into this new regional network 129 00:06:39,060 --> 00:06:41,310 of mountain observatories with Mount Washington 130 00:06:41,310 --> 00:06:44,940 and the Whiteface Mountain Observatory, 131 00:06:44,940 --> 00:06:47,163 which I'll talk about more shortly. 132 00:06:48,510 --> 00:06:50,970 But first I wanted to start discussions on 133 00:06:50,970 --> 00:06:53,610 this really new exciting initiative called 134 00:06:53,610 --> 00:06:56,010 the Northeast Snow Study. 135 00:06:56,010 --> 00:06:58,470 And so the Northeast Snow Study is this new 136 00:06:58,470 --> 00:07:00,390 federally-appropriated funding through 137 00:07:00,390 --> 00:07:03,270 the US Department of Agriculture 138 00:07:03,270 --> 00:07:06,960 Natural Resource Conservation Service, or NRCS, 139 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:08,670 to the University of New Hampshire, 140 00:07:08,670 --> 00:07:11,580 University of Vermont, and the Schoodic Institute, 141 00:07:11,580 --> 00:07:14,400 the Appalachian Mountain Club and Forest Stewards Guild 142 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,660 and the New York State Mesonet 143 00:07:15,660 --> 00:07:19,710 are all sub awardees to this as well. 144 00:07:19,710 --> 00:07:23,460 And the goal is to assess community needs 145 00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:26,160 for designing a coordinated network 146 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,580 of automated snow and weather measurement stations 147 00:07:29,580 --> 00:07:30,450 in the East, 148 00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:35,450 similar to the Western SNOTEL Network in the West. 149 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,270 And for those of you that don't know much about 150 00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:40,620 the NRCS networks, 151 00:07:40,620 --> 00:07:45,003 there's two-predominant networks that the NRCS manages. 152 00:07:46,050 --> 00:07:48,840 There's SNOTEL, which are all these blue stations 153 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:49,950 out in the West, 154 00:07:49,950 --> 00:07:52,137 and there's also SCAN Network, which is 155 00:07:52,137 --> 00:07:54,930 the Soil Climate Analysis Network 156 00:07:54,930 --> 00:07:57,870 that extends throughout the entire country. 157 00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:01,663 There's actually one SCAN site on Mount Mansfield, 158 00:08:01,663 --> 00:08:04,530 and one of the Cold Weather Summit-to-Shore 159 00:08:04,530 --> 00:08:06,060 Environmental Observation network sites 160 00:08:06,060 --> 00:08:08,703 is co-located next to the SCAN site. 161 00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:11,970 And SNOTEL stations, 162 00:08:11,970 --> 00:08:16,320 there's over 900-sites in these Western states. 163 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,200 They're located in remote high elevation 164 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,940 mountain watersheds. 165 00:08:20,940 --> 00:08:25,470 And the basic sites collect temperature, snow depth, 166 00:08:25,470 --> 00:08:28,830 snow water equivalent and precipitation. 167 00:08:28,830 --> 00:08:30,570 And then there's enhanced sites, 168 00:08:30,570 --> 00:08:32,880 and they collect soil moisture and temperature 169 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,090 at various depths, soil radiation, 170 00:08:36,090 --> 00:08:38,580 wind and relative humidity. 171 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:41,820 And data is collected and reported multiple times daily 172 00:08:41,820 --> 00:08:44,283 with some sensors reporting hourly. 173 00:08:45,570 --> 00:08:47,820 And just right next door to us, 174 00:08:47,820 --> 00:08:50,250 there's the New York State Mesonet, 175 00:08:50,250 --> 00:08:55,250 and there's 126-different standard network sites 176 00:08:55,260 --> 00:08:57,453 that were all completed at 2018. 177 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:03,480 And out of these 126-sites, all of them also 178 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,010 measure meteorological parameters as well as snow depth. 179 00:09:08,010 --> 00:09:09,900 And you could see where all of these sites are 180 00:09:09,900 --> 00:09:12,540 by where you could test the temperature readings 181 00:09:12,540 --> 00:09:14,400 across the entire state. 182 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,350 And then I did an overlay on this image 183 00:09:16,350 --> 00:09:19,110 and I added these blue circles for the sites 184 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:21,630 that are also snow network sites. 185 00:09:21,630 --> 00:09:25,590 And at these sites, all of these sites measure SWE 186 00:09:25,590 --> 00:09:27,540 and they're predominantly located 187 00:09:27,540 --> 00:09:30,903 in the high elevation areas across the state. 188 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:35,853 And so the objectives of NESS, 189 00:09:37,020 --> 00:09:38,820 there's many different objectives, 190 00:09:38,820 --> 00:09:41,910 but overall the ultimate goal is 191 00:09:41,910 --> 00:09:46,910 design a model for a new NRCS network in the region 192 00:09:47,010 --> 00:09:50,310 to comprehensively monitor snowpack, weather, 193 00:09:50,310 --> 00:09:54,360 and hydrological variables across elevational gradients 194 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,283 and mountain ranges. 195 00:09:59,602 --> 00:10:03,660 And today our discussion is also thinking about what else, 196 00:10:03,660 --> 00:10:06,120 what other objectives may we be missing, 197 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,160 or should we be thinking about 198 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,120 when designing this plan and this feasibility study 199 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,340 for a regional snow monitoring network 200 00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:16,440 here in the Northeast? 201 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,150 And so NESS is gonna be launched in three different phases. 202 00:10:21,150 --> 00:10:23,370 The project just started in October, 203 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:26,160 and this is actually the first working group session 204 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:27,660 that we're having for NESS. 205 00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:29,910 We're just starting to get started on a website 206 00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:31,760 and other kind of outreach materials. 207 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,940 And so we're just starting Phase 1, 208 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:37,680 which is stakeholder engagement 209 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,903 and data analysis and synthesis. 210 00:10:41,250 --> 00:10:43,470 In Phase 2, we're gonna be thinking about 211 00:10:43,470 --> 00:10:45,090 the next step of partnership development 212 00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:47,100 and on-the-ground site selection. 213 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:48,990 We're gonna be looking at various properties 214 00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:51,210 across the region and thinking about 215 00:10:51,210 --> 00:10:53,688 what it would take to be able to actually install 216 00:10:53,688 --> 00:10:57,030 these snow monitoring sites across the region. 217 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:58,890 And then Phase 3 would be 218 00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:00,660 development of a public report 219 00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:02,820 detailing these priority sites, 220 00:11:02,820 --> 00:11:05,490 supporting rationale, partnership agreements, 221 00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:07,890 a data-sharing and dissemination plan, 222 00:11:07,890 --> 00:11:09,480 and implementation plan. 223 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,650 And then we're gonna be handing it off 224 00:11:10,650 --> 00:11:12,690 to NRCS for implementation. 225 00:11:12,690 --> 00:11:14,850 And the idea is to be able to have 226 00:11:14,850 --> 00:11:18,060 three-different plans almost to be able to submit to NRCS, 227 00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:22,650 this low, medium, high of different types of networks 228 00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:23,790 that can exist. 229 00:11:23,790 --> 00:11:27,330 So we're really thinking about what are the must-haves, 230 00:11:27,330 --> 00:11:29,370 what are the would-be-nice-to-haves 231 00:11:29,370 --> 00:11:30,420 associated with these networks, 232 00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:35,420 and what are the must-haves, would-be-nice-to-haves... 233 00:11:36,210 --> 00:11:37,160 Erika, help me out. 234 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:41,160 Oh, must-haves, should-haves, and would-be-nice-to-haves 235 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,250 associated with the NESS 236 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,063 feasibility study development. 237 00:11:49,050 --> 00:11:51,400 And so today we're gonna be 238 00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:53,877 collecting feedback from all of you, 239 00:11:53,877 --> 00:11:57,600 and thinking about the design of this NESS network. 240 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,890 And so we're gonna be focusing mainly on the objectives 241 00:12:01,890 --> 00:12:03,480 of the network itself. 242 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,730 Are there other applications or uses 243 00:12:05,730 --> 00:12:07,140 that we should be thinking about 244 00:12:07,140 --> 00:12:09,990 in the main objectives of NESS? 245 00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:11,820 Data types and products, 246 00:12:11,820 --> 00:12:13,860 what monitoring variables should be included 247 00:12:13,860 --> 00:12:15,300 at each monitoring station? 248 00:12:15,300 --> 00:12:19,050 How frequently should data be collected? 249 00:12:19,050 --> 00:12:20,640 How should they be shared? 250 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,950 Thinking about the distribution of sites, 251 00:12:22,950 --> 00:12:24,870 and also the overall network design, 252 00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:29,152 which we'll have together in one breakout, 253 00:12:29,152 --> 00:12:32,190 because I believe that the overall network design 254 00:12:32,190 --> 00:12:35,700 and the distribution of sites go hand-in-hand. 255 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:38,700 And then after we discuss NESS, 256 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:40,380 I'll provide a little bit more of an overview 257 00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:43,182 about this new Mountain Observatory Network 258 00:12:43,182 --> 00:12:46,380 that has recently been funded. 259 00:12:46,380 --> 00:12:50,130 And we'll collectively think about how 260 00:12:50,130 --> 00:12:52,080 this new Mountain Observatory Network, 261 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,030 in collaboration with Mount Washington 262 00:12:54,030 --> 00:12:56,460 and the Atmospheric Sciences Research Center 263 00:12:56,460 --> 00:13:01,460 all integrates and complements the future vision 264 00:13:02,370 --> 00:13:06,570 of what NESS could become here in the Northeast. 265 00:13:06,570 --> 00:13:09,600 So with that, I'll hand it off to Erika 266 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,503 who's gonna help us facilitate these working sessions. 267 00:13:14,503 --> 00:13:16,080 [Erika] Yeah, so hopefully when you all 268 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,910 decided to come to a working session, 269 00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:20,280 it was with the intent of contributing. 270 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,753 As Josh noted, we're in the very preliminary stages. 271 00:13:25,710 --> 00:13:28,830 The Forest Stewards Guild is working with 272 00:13:28,830 --> 00:13:30,330 the Appalachian Mountain Club 273 00:13:30,330 --> 00:13:33,930 to basically oversee the stakeholder engagement part. 274 00:13:33,930 --> 00:13:36,390 And for the stakeholder engagement piece, 275 00:13:36,390 --> 00:13:40,590 we're really asking a broad spectrum 276 00:13:40,590 --> 00:13:43,470 of potential interest holders in the information 277 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:45,330 that could be generated with this, 278 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:48,360 their thoughts about this network. 279 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,700 And I'll just mention one thing, 280 00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:53,220 we're gonna engage you and ask you these questions 281 00:13:53,220 --> 00:13:56,250 and capture this and the work that we'll do today. 282 00:13:56,250 --> 00:13:57,810 We'd also really appreciate it 283 00:13:57,810 --> 00:14:00,000 if you'd sign this signup sheet on the way out, 284 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,180 particularly if you're interested in continued engagement. 285 00:14:03,180 --> 00:14:05,501 Because again, this is just the preliminary step 286 00:14:05,501 --> 00:14:09,150 that we'll be asking your input on. 287 00:14:09,150 --> 00:14:13,380 So we're gonna be doing this exercise called 1-2-4-All. 288 00:14:13,380 --> 00:14:15,690 And basically what this is is 289 00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:18,900 we're gonna hand out these pieces of sticky note paper 290 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,840 that are color-coded to the different topics 291 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,880 that we wanna address today. 292 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,100 And we're gonna ask you to just take a minute, 293 00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:26,933 literally a minute, 294 00:14:26,933 --> 00:14:30,360 and just reflect by yourselves, individually, 295 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,330 on the questions, the prompts that we'll have. 296 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:35,970 Then we'll ask you to pair up with one other person 297 00:14:35,970 --> 00:14:38,910 and start a conversation for a couple of minutes. 298 00:14:38,910 --> 00:14:41,520 Then before we even get started, 299 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,680 I'm gonna break you into probably I think 300 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,450 either two or three-groups. 301 00:14:45,450 --> 00:14:47,490 So after you've had two-minutes just chatting 302 00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:48,660 with one other individual, 303 00:14:48,660 --> 00:14:50,460 then we'll get together as a group 304 00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:54,000 and summarize your ideas, and then we'll share out. 305 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,850 We'll ask you for the top two, 306 00:14:56,850 --> 00:14:58,650 whatever the process might be. 307 00:14:58,650 --> 00:15:01,050 And we'll collect the sticky notes at the end. 308 00:15:01,050 --> 00:15:04,150 So we'll actually be capturing everybody's input into this 309 00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:09,423 according to these different color-coordinated pads. 310 00:15:10,339 --> 00:15:13,770 And then do a summary before we wrap things up today. 311 00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:16,170 So I know it seems like a lot of instructions, 312 00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:17,610 I think we'll go through it once, 313 00:15:17,610 --> 00:15:20,040 and then everybody will get the hang of it. 314 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,040 And Josh, have you done a quick count? 315 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,673 Four, five, four, 316 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:29,310 maybe we'll break you into two-groups of four over there. 317 00:15:29,310 --> 00:15:31,230 That group of four, would you mind joining this group, 318 00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:32,160 'cause then there'll be six. 319 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,540 Even numbers are good when you have 320 00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:34,830 to break out for practice. 321 00:15:34,830 --> 00:15:37,593 And I'll move my bag over there if you'd like. 322 00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:42,387 So again, we're gonna start out with, 323 00:15:42,387 --> 00:15:44,550 I'm gonna move on to the next, I'll hand out, 324 00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:47,050 and does everybody have a pen, anybody need a pen? 325 00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:49,200 Anybody else need a pen? 326 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,033 [Participant] Can you just say 327 00:15:50,033 --> 00:15:51,150 the journey just one more time? 328 00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:52,530 I was looking at the handout. 329 00:15:52,530 --> 00:15:53,810 [Erika] Yeah, sure. 330 00:15:53,810 --> 00:15:56,940 So let's do these guys right, here this four. 331 00:15:56,940 --> 00:15:58,080 [Participant] I'm thinking the two of us 332 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:59,378 should be in a different group. 333 00:15:59,378 --> 00:16:00,211 [Erika] Okay. 334 00:16:00,211 --> 00:16:03,400 [Participant] I think the two of us should be different. 335 00:16:10,667 --> 00:16:13,713 [Erika] 'Cause again, you need a pen? 336 00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:16,211 Anybody else need a pen? 337 00:16:16,211 --> 00:16:18,237 [Participant] Can I get a pen? 338 00:16:18,237 --> 00:16:20,400 [Dr. Benes] Yeah, and for our online attendees 339 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,560 you're also gonna break out into a subgroup. 340 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,880 Unfortunately Sarah Nelson with the MC 341 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,110 was originally gonna help us 342 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:30,270 with facilitation of the online group, 343 00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:34,260 but she wasn't able to join us today. 344 00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:37,920 So we would really appreciate, 345 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,830 we'll just put you on mute here on our end 346 00:16:40,830 --> 00:16:42,720 and then unmute you afterwards, 347 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,770 and you're welcome to discuss between one another 348 00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:51,390 about the prompts that we have for all of you. 349 00:16:51,390 --> 00:16:54,120 So I'm just gonna put the volume down here. 350 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,850 [Erika] So again, for this first motive, 351 00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:57,360 are you gonna advance to the objective? 352 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:58,410 [Dr. Benes] Yes. 353 00:16:58,410 --> 00:17:00,360 [Erika] And I'll hand out some paper. 354 00:17:02,805 --> 00:17:05,520 [Dr. Benes] So we're gonna be collecting input 355 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,040 on all of these various items. 356 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,370 So the first is going to be network objectives, 357 00:17:11,370 --> 00:17:12,810 which is light green, 358 00:17:12,810 --> 00:17:15,180 so we do have these light green Post-its 359 00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:20,180 that you'll be putting ideas of network objectives on. 360 00:17:20,310 --> 00:17:24,750 And so what we mean about network objectives 361 00:17:24,750 --> 00:17:26,073 for NESS were, 362 00:17:27,690 --> 00:17:30,600 we just handed out a one-pager about NESS, 363 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,403 the scope of NESS and what we're thinking about 364 00:17:33,403 --> 00:17:38,403 for the focus areas of the Northeast Snow Study Network. 365 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,840 But various existing objectives 366 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:43,920 that we're considering right now 367 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,470 is focusing the design of this network 368 00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:49,260 on spring flooding, potential for drought, 369 00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:51,600 winter-based economy impact, 370 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,520 data for recreationalists, 371 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,340 climate monitoring and ecological change. 372 00:17:56,340 --> 00:17:58,440 So we'd appreciate you reflecting 373 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,540 and thinking about other objectives 374 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:04,320 that we should be considering for NESS 375 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,562 that we should be thinking about 376 00:18:07,562 --> 00:18:10,410 as we're developing a plan for 377 00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:12,180 what this snow monitoring network 378 00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:13,560 would look like across the region. 379 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:14,393 [Erika] Yeah. 380 00:18:14,393 --> 00:18:16,650 And if the use of the word objectives isn't clear, 381 00:18:16,650 --> 00:18:19,860 it's actually, what would we use this data for? 382 00:18:19,860 --> 00:18:21,450 What would the applications be? 383 00:18:21,450 --> 00:18:26,220 So it's really trying to add on to this list 384 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:29,023 that are already just the preliminary starter to this. 385 00:18:29,023 --> 00:18:32,220 I don't know what kind of interest holders 386 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:34,230 in this topic you all represent. 387 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:36,180 But the one thing I didn't say is 388 00:18:36,180 --> 00:18:38,460 we've already started some phone surveys around this, 389 00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:42,210 again tackling from recreationalists to town planners 390 00:18:42,210 --> 00:18:43,043 to everybody. 391 00:18:43,043 --> 00:18:45,570 So we're trying to get a really broad swab of input 392 00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:48,543 on what these applications or uses, objectives, may be. 393 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:52,170 We'll give you one-minute to think on your own 394 00:18:52,170 --> 00:18:54,330 and then be prepared to pair up 395 00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:56,313 and chat with your neighbor about this. 396 00:18:57,930 --> 00:18:58,763 [Dr. Benes] You got the timer? 397 00:18:58,763 --> 00:19:00,353 -[Erika] Yeah. -[Dr. Benes] Okay, great. 398 00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:47,430 [Erika] Just as you think about this, 399 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:48,480 these are broad, 400 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,670 even these first four-bullets are kind of broad. 401 00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:53,430 If you wanna dig into those in a little bit more detail, 402 00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:54,573 that's helpful too. 403 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,920 (participant sighs) 404 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:12,450 And I don't know if that's been enough time 405 00:20:12,450 --> 00:20:13,500 to do some thinking on your own, 406 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:15,330 but if you wanna start chitchatting to a partner, 407 00:20:15,330 --> 00:20:17,450 that'd be awesome about ideas. 408 00:20:37,566 --> 00:20:41,066 (participants chattering) 409 00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:06,633 (participants chattering continues) 410 00:21:27,725 --> 00:21:32,058 (participants chattering continues) 411 00:21:53,383 --> 00:21:57,716 (participants chattering continues) 412 00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:43,609 (participants chattering continues) 413 00:22:45,397 --> 00:22:48,390 So my idea for the sticky notes, 414 00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:50,447 to make it fun and more lively. 415 00:22:53,316 --> 00:22:57,649 (participants chattering continues) 416 00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:19,050 [Dr. Benes] And so go ahead and transition 417 00:23:19,050 --> 00:23:23,320 to groups of four and share ideas amongst one another. 418 00:23:26,955 --> 00:23:30,455 (participants chattering) 419 00:23:52,058 --> 00:23:56,391 (participants chattering continues) 420 00:24:08,321 --> 00:24:12,654 (participants chattering continues) 421 00:24:30,201 --> 00:24:34,534 (participants chattering continues) 422 00:25:02,509 --> 00:25:06,842 (participants chattering continues) 423 00:25:46,725 --> 00:25:51,058 (participants chattering continues) 424 00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:17,151 [Erika] If you could start to summarize, 425 00:27:17,151 --> 00:27:18,851 and make sure you have it legible. 426 00:27:29,393 --> 00:27:31,226 Another minute or two. 427 00:27:37,095 --> 00:27:41,428 (participants chattering continues) 428 00:28:34,154 --> 00:28:39,024 Okay, everybody, you ready to share a little bit? 429 00:28:39,024 --> 00:28:42,524 I think group one's all ready to go first. 430 00:28:44,692 --> 00:28:45,525 [Participant] We can go first. 431 00:28:45,525 --> 00:28:47,100 [Erika] Okay, great, thank you. 432 00:28:51,630 --> 00:28:52,920 [Participant] I'm gonna summarize what I've written. 433 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,180 [Erika] Okay, yeah, great. 434 00:28:54,180 --> 00:28:55,710 [Dr. Benes] Wonderful. 435 00:28:55,710 --> 00:28:57,390 [Participant] I would say there was an interest 436 00:28:57,390 --> 00:28:59,910 in components that are beyond the hydrology 437 00:28:59,910 --> 00:29:04,910 like the use of the data for just looking at plant vibration 438 00:29:05,580 --> 00:29:08,730 and non-hydrology aspects. 439 00:29:08,730 --> 00:29:12,360 [Erika] So, applying the data to these other questions? 440 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,643 -[Participant] Yeah. -[Erika] Okay. 441 00:29:14,580 --> 00:29:15,990 And may I just interject? 442 00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:19,113 Are there any data then, any specific parameters 443 00:29:19,113 --> 00:29:21,060 that you would want collected 444 00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:23,733 to make those applications viable? 445 00:29:30,394 --> 00:29:32,430 [Participant] I think I brought up the aspect of 446 00:29:32,430 --> 00:29:36,210 using the data for having a better understanding 447 00:29:36,210 --> 00:29:37,330 of how much snowpack 448 00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:43,983 contributes to flooding another human base, 449 00:29:44,940 --> 00:29:48,060 the impacts to human society 450 00:29:48,060 --> 00:29:51,210 or whatever, so that was I think another aspect 451 00:29:51,210 --> 00:29:52,890 of just like sort of social... 452 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:54,260 [Erika] The social component, yeah. 453 00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:55,523 [Participant] Component on that. 454 00:30:02,820 --> 00:30:06,990 [Participant] Yeah, I just mentioned the impact of 455 00:30:06,990 --> 00:30:09,690 up-slope migration for plants and animals, 456 00:30:09,690 --> 00:30:14,690 so ecological impacts and influences of the snowpack. 457 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,713 [Erika] Yeah. 458 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,750 [Participant] I guess the third thing we were talking... 459 00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:19,950 I'm sorry, were you gonna say something? 460 00:30:19,950 --> 00:30:20,983 [Participant] No. 461 00:30:20,983 --> 00:30:23,370 [Participant] The other thing that we did mention is 462 00:30:23,370 --> 00:30:25,980 maybe looking at, one of us was thinking 463 00:30:25,980 --> 00:30:27,570 this is realtime data, 464 00:30:27,570 --> 00:30:29,700 and others were not thinking as realtime data. 465 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:33,420 So maybe thinking about how that data is packaged, 466 00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:35,160 is it realtime or is it summarized, 467 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,990 or do you have different audiences 468 00:30:36,990 --> 00:30:38,220 that wanna see different... 469 00:30:38,220 --> 00:30:39,750 [Erika] And that is our next prompt. 470 00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:40,643 [Participant] Sorry. 471 00:30:44,765 --> 00:30:46,800 [Erica] Any more from this group? 472 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:47,633 Thank you very much. 473 00:30:47,633 --> 00:30:50,100 I guess we'll just move to you guys for impressions. 474 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:51,720 [Participant] That was a lot of our conversation, 475 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,720 I think was the realtime verse packets type of situation. 476 00:31:00,630 --> 00:31:04,350 We talked about maybe removing 477 00:31:04,350 --> 00:31:06,660 recreationalists as a focus, 478 00:31:06,660 --> 00:31:10,800 and adding that if we can collect a few more metrics 479 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,730 to appease that community from that approach. 480 00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:17,193 Sounded like that was an opinion. 481 00:31:19,410 --> 00:31:21,540 And being sure to establish new sites 482 00:31:21,540 --> 00:31:23,680 on top of existing sites 483 00:31:24,525 --> 00:31:25,675 or have corrallel data. 484 00:31:29,726 --> 00:31:31,380 [Participant] And to have the location be where 485 00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:34,410 it's gonna be meaningful for the purpose of those things. 486 00:31:34,410 --> 00:31:36,300 So if is the top of Mount Washington 487 00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:38,160 and the top of Mount Mansfield 488 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,700 really the data that has meaning in the valleys. 489 00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:44,520 [Erika] Yeah, and again you'll be able to dig into that 490 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,193 when we get to these network design pieces. 491 00:31:48,870 --> 00:31:51,750 So great, thinking ahead. 492 00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:54,137 Do you guys have some ideas that you can share? 493 00:31:54,137 --> 00:31:56,930 [Participant] I have some that we came up with. 494 00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:59,040 So one thing based on the Mesonet, 495 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,360 New York State Mesonet, 496 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,090 agriculture is a big user of 497 00:32:03,090 --> 00:32:04,590 specifically soil temperature, 498 00:32:04,590 --> 00:32:07,560 but the whole concept of poor man's fertilizer, 499 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,473 snowpack contributing nitrogen in the spring. 500 00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:14,370 Utilities, we had a lot of power outages 501 00:32:14,370 --> 00:32:16,740 with this wet snowpack recently, 502 00:32:16,740 --> 00:32:19,740 that affects everybody basically. 503 00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:23,010 I kind of agree, I think rec relations is important, 504 00:32:23,010 --> 00:32:24,554 but it shouldn't be limited to that, 505 00:32:24,554 --> 00:32:28,410 this has a much wider reach 506 00:32:28,410 --> 00:32:31,530 and you can even dig deeper into the recreationalists 507 00:32:31,530 --> 00:32:35,850 with the avalanche forecasting, snow quality forecasting 508 00:32:35,850 --> 00:32:39,750 for our skiing, like qualifying the snowpack 509 00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:41,400 and not just the depth of the snow, 510 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,263 but what type of snow it is, and SWE plays into that. 511 00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:53,253 Flooding of course was the major one, 512 00:32:54,150 --> 00:32:55,860 and baseline climate data, 513 00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:58,123 do we know if we have snow now that 514 00:32:58,123 --> 00:33:00,150 that there is less snow now than there used to be, 515 00:33:00,150 --> 00:33:01,350 year-to-year. 516 00:33:01,350 --> 00:33:04,800 A lot of people's opinions on that 517 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,890 are based on their recollections as a child, 518 00:33:07,890 --> 00:33:10,863 nothing that's really empirical data. 519 00:33:12,525 --> 00:33:13,920 [Erika] Great. 520 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,200 So can I just collect all of these, 521 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,360 the ones from this exercise? 522 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,411 And as I do that, do you wanna move on? 523 00:33:20,411 --> 00:33:23,851 [Dr. Benes] Yeah, sounds good. 524 00:33:23,851 --> 00:33:25,380 [Participant] Would frazzelized or anchorized, 525 00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:26,340 would that be in your realm 526 00:33:26,340 --> 00:33:30,413 or is that too hydrological for your focus? 527 00:33:30,413 --> 00:33:31,246 [Erika] I don't think 528 00:33:31,246 --> 00:33:32,850 it's too hydrological for our purpose, 529 00:33:32,850 --> 00:33:34,830 but it's really, we've been talking to the 530 00:33:34,830 --> 00:33:38,370 northeast forecast, the Berkeley Forecast Center. 531 00:33:38,370 --> 00:33:41,490 We're really asking broadly. 532 00:33:41,490 --> 00:33:42,420 [Participant] Because ice in general 533 00:33:42,420 --> 00:33:44,417 is a big concern in the state, 534 00:33:44,417 --> 00:33:46,417 but from a Fisheries perspective, 535 00:33:46,417 --> 00:33:48,713 we're really concerned about that kind of life. 536 00:33:50,190 --> 00:33:53,403 In-stream ice features basically that can disrupt. 537 00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:57,909 We also missed the transportation sector. 538 00:33:57,909 --> 00:34:00,648 [Erika] Yeah, you already plugged your note. 539 00:34:00,648 --> 00:34:01,672 You got that down? 540 00:34:01,672 --> 00:34:03,575 [Participant] Yeah, we'll do that. 541 00:34:03,575 --> 00:34:07,200 The other one with chemistry is the pollution-type stuff, 542 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,530 el fico, and it's general chemistry, 543 00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:13,320 especially talking about acid rain. 544 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,520 Just very concerned here 545 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,820 about the state of general 546 00:34:19,175 --> 00:34:20,250 water chemistry. 547 00:34:20,250 --> 00:34:22,200 I don't know whether snow is different. 548 00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:26,309 [Erika] Yeah, in terms of what is 549 00:34:26,309 --> 00:34:28,770 being sent up in the atmosphere. 550 00:34:28,770 --> 00:34:30,390 [Dr. Benes] The initial question was just 551 00:34:30,390 --> 00:34:32,043 in terms of interest groups. 552 00:34:32,043 --> 00:34:33,630 [Erika] Well interest groups, 553 00:34:33,630 --> 00:34:38,400 or what kind of uses, who might be using the data, 554 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,940 what might they be applying it to, those kinds of things. 555 00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:44,760 So again, this gets back to the idea of the objectives 556 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,740 for the entire network. 557 00:34:46,740 --> 00:34:48,421 [Participant] I mean you were the only one who suggested 558 00:34:48,421 --> 00:34:49,254 iodine. 559 00:34:49,254 --> 00:34:54,254 [Participant] Yeah. 560 00:34:58,410 --> 00:35:00,000 [Dr. Benes] Great, well we'll transition now 561 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,380 to data types and products, 562 00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:04,560 which will be the teal-colored Post-its. 563 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,860 And here we wanna think a little bit more about 564 00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:10,650 what different data types and products should be considered. 565 00:35:10,650 --> 00:35:13,260 What things are being measured by these stations, 566 00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:16,560 what other types of variables should we be thinking about. 567 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,253 Realtime data availability also being part of this as well. 568 00:35:21,150 --> 00:35:25,500 How would people access the data, other things like that. 569 00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:27,420 So we'll do the same exact exercise 570 00:35:27,420 --> 00:35:31,380 where we'll spend one-minute with individual reflection. 571 00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:34,800 Then we'll do the same process again with groups of two. 572 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,300 And then we'll move to groups of four, 573 00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:39,663 and then reflect on what everyone has come up with. 574 00:35:54,377 --> 00:35:56,100 And to our online attendee, 575 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:59,100 I'm sorry I had you muted but you're welcome to participate. 576 00:35:59,970 --> 00:36:02,430 So I'm just gonna unmute the sound system now. 577 00:36:02,430 --> 00:36:05,350 Please mute yourself if you're 578 00:36:07,140 --> 00:36:08,130 just thinking to yourself, 579 00:36:08,130 --> 00:36:10,323 but unmute yourself if you wanna chime in. 580 00:36:20,090 --> 00:36:21,420 [Participant] Is that second to last one 581 00:36:21,420 --> 00:36:23,720 supposed to say soil temperature and moisture? 582 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,413 [Dr. Benes] Soil temperature and moisture, yes. 583 00:36:46,020 --> 00:36:48,383 [Participant] Snow cover would be built into depth. 584 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:53,093 [Dr. Benes] Snow cover would be built into depth, yeah. 585 00:38:08,250 --> 00:38:10,380 [Erika] Okay, if you guys wanna transition into 586 00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:14,517 just talking in pairs again, please, any ideas that way. 587 00:38:21,682 --> 00:38:25,182 (participants chattering) 588 00:38:50,864 --> 00:38:55,197 (participants chattering continues) 589 00:39:24,384 --> 00:39:28,717 (participants chattering continues) 590 00:40:01,833 --> 00:40:06,166 (participants chattering continues) 591 00:40:37,458 --> 00:40:41,791 (participants chattering continues) 592 00:40:59,424 --> 00:41:03,757 (participants chattering continues) 593 00:41:16,413 --> 00:41:20,746 (participants chattering continues) 594 00:41:37,476 --> 00:41:41,809 (participants chattering continues) 595 00:42:56,196 --> 00:43:00,529 (participants chattering continues) 596 00:43:51,298 --> 00:43:55,631 (participants chattering continues) 597 00:44:46,140 --> 00:44:49,020 [Erika] The room is quiet, maybe everybody's all set. 598 00:44:49,020 --> 00:44:52,467 [Participant] We're getting a grade on this right now. 599 00:44:52,467 --> 00:44:54,217 [Erika] I'm not grading anything. 600 00:44:57,704 --> 00:45:00,100 So since we started doing this stuff, 601 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,790 do you guys mind leading off this time? 602 00:45:05,691 --> 00:45:09,201 [Participant] You don't wanna take the rein? 603 00:45:09,201 --> 00:45:10,710 [Participant] I don't think I can recap everything 604 00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:12,500 that everyone else's was saying, 605 00:45:12,500 --> 00:45:14,850 but the one that I came up with was 606 00:45:14,850 --> 00:45:17,160 really just making sure that it's shared 607 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,700 really broadly with the public as a 608 00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:22,410 tool to educate on climate change. 609 00:45:22,410 --> 00:45:26,010 Because we know that it's impacting the winter so much. 610 00:45:26,010 --> 00:45:28,867 And sharing it with the public, 611 00:45:28,867 --> 00:45:31,830 in terms of the public can just readily digest, 612 00:45:31,830 --> 00:45:34,170 instead of having to tell them what 613 00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:36,240 snow water looked like and means, 614 00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:38,793 but just things in that terminology. 615 00:45:39,709 --> 00:45:41,320 [Erika] Maybe, just out of curiosity, 616 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:42,780 because these are the kind of details that we're 617 00:45:42,780 --> 00:45:44,910 dig into as we move forward. 618 00:45:44,910 --> 00:45:47,070 What format, is that pictures? 619 00:45:47,070 --> 00:45:48,000 [Participant] A website. 620 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:48,833 [Erika] Like an icon? 621 00:45:48,833 --> 00:45:49,666 [Participant] Yeah. 622 00:45:49,666 --> 00:45:51,183 They don't even have to read text. 623 00:45:52,170 --> 00:45:53,970 [Erika] Something they may send via social media, 624 00:45:53,970 --> 00:45:55,350 or something that... 625 00:45:55,350 --> 00:45:57,160 [Participant] If you want to get to those people. 626 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,110 [Participant] Maybe a simple summary. 627 00:46:01,380 --> 00:46:02,980 One thing I came up with was 628 00:46:06,481 --> 00:46:07,743 precipitational tensity, 629 00:46:10,740 --> 00:46:12,183 change in wind direction, 630 00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:16,860 and change in delta T between two and nine-meters, 631 00:46:16,860 --> 00:46:19,080 the disparity between those two. 632 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:24,080 Because you're getting an idea of frontal passage 633 00:46:24,270 --> 00:46:27,030 and where the snow might be scoured or deposited, 634 00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:28,470 but the quality of your data 635 00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:30,720 is gonna is affected by wind, 636 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:33,060 but not just the speed of the wind, 637 00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:37,230 but the direction and how quickly that's changing. 638 00:46:37,230 --> 00:46:39,420 And it depends on your interval 639 00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:40,440 that you're recording the data. 640 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,623 If it's hourly, it could change an awful lot in an hour. 641 00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:49,410 And siting criteria, I don't know if that fits in to here 642 00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:50,970 -but... -[Erika] The next part. 643 00:46:50,970 --> 00:46:52,403 [Participant] That's overriding. 644 00:46:54,810 --> 00:46:56,700 [Erika] Any other comments from this group? 645 00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:59,093 [Participant] Would it be appropriate to have a camera? 646 00:47:00,210 --> 00:47:02,004 [Participant] Good point. 647 00:47:02,004 --> 00:47:03,957 [Participant] That's the most viewed part of the Mesonet 648 00:47:03,957 --> 00:47:06,180 is the camera on every site. 649 00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:08,993 [Dr. Benes] Patrick, what are you thinking about? 650 00:47:13,753 --> 00:47:15,084 [Patrick] I thinking of the fish 651 00:47:15,084 --> 00:47:16,430 in terms of all that water, 652 00:47:16,430 --> 00:47:20,550 so ground water depth and temperature. 653 00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:21,900 I think in Vermont in general 654 00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:24,300 we need more of that information. 655 00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:29,163 And then doing more on temperature. 656 00:47:31,050 --> 00:47:34,190 I realize it's outside of this realm of snow, 657 00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:37,243 but, hey, I'll just make a point for it. 658 00:47:41,580 --> 00:47:42,503 [Erika] Somebody I was talking to 659 00:47:42,503 --> 00:47:44,790 in some of these preliminaries, 660 00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:46,357 preliminary research with somebody, and they're like, 661 00:47:46,357 --> 00:47:47,317 "Everything goes down now, 662 00:47:47,317 --> 00:47:49,417 "everything ends up in the stream anyway." 663 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:52,774 I'm gonna go with this group next. 664 00:47:52,774 --> 00:47:53,849 [Participant] I'm gonna let you go, 665 00:47:53,849 --> 00:47:57,617 because we had the thought and feel of what they just said, 666 00:47:57,617 --> 00:47:58,710 one of the ideas. 667 00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:59,790 [Participant] Yeah. 668 00:47:59,790 --> 00:48:02,520 Well, we also had the idea of a camera, 669 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,380 and using that even potentially as 670 00:48:04,380 --> 00:48:06,570 another way of driving snow depth, 671 00:48:06,570 --> 00:48:10,020 having two different measurements of the same thing, 672 00:48:10,020 --> 00:48:12,243 with the recent uncertainty there. 673 00:48:13,710 --> 00:48:16,110 And then also maybe, 674 00:48:16,110 --> 00:48:18,510 and this might just be some sort of post-processing thing, 675 00:48:18,510 --> 00:48:21,873 but some sort of data for type of precipitation fall out, 676 00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:26,130 sensor fluff, and it probably just means 677 00:48:26,130 --> 00:48:27,240 a function of temperature, 678 00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:29,433 but it doesn't always happen that way. 679 00:48:30,990 --> 00:48:34,650 And then also talking about 680 00:48:34,650 --> 00:48:36,360 the ability of data 681 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,043 to be accessed by the public. 682 00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:43,800 This will definitely pre-select the quantity of data, 683 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,210 but allowing that to be easily digested 684 00:48:48,210 --> 00:48:50,250 by people and the public, but also 685 00:48:50,250 --> 00:48:52,980 for people who are using it for research purposes. 686 00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:55,380 [Erika] So, again, I'm gonna probe this a little further, 687 00:48:55,380 --> 00:48:58,360 because these are important questions I think to ask is 688 00:48:59,211 --> 00:49:01,380 raw data packaged in some way 689 00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:03,630 that's more accessible to the public, 690 00:49:03,630 --> 00:49:07,050 but if you can, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, 691 00:49:07,050 --> 00:49:08,520 make a distinction. 692 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,220 I think scientists would probably like the raw data 693 00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:12,510 rather than the packaged. 694 00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:15,090 But if you were putting on your public hat, 695 00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:17,550 what would you like to see in terms of 696 00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:18,540 if you went to the website, 697 00:49:18,540 --> 00:49:20,583 and were looking for, what kind of data, 698 00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:23,640 the raw data or some kind of summary? 699 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,703 -[Participant] As the public? -[Erika] Yeah. 700 00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:31,260 [Participant] Yeah, I think definitely both, 701 00:49:31,260 --> 00:49:34,950 but I think for general public, realtime data 702 00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:37,170 and over, I don't know, 703 00:49:37,170 --> 00:49:40,241 a 24-hour or maybe a week-long period 704 00:49:40,241 --> 00:49:42,630 to be able to be able to see the evolution of 705 00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:44,163 different variables. 706 00:49:46,350 --> 00:49:50,070 So not necessarily processed, but just 707 00:49:50,070 --> 00:49:51,900 being able to see changes in temperature 708 00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:54,393 and wind speed, and changes in snow depth. 709 00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:59,080 [Erika] Yeah, welcome, anybody come in. 710 00:50:00,990 --> 00:50:02,700 [Participant] I think there's different audiences, 711 00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:04,140 so I don't think you can think about 712 00:50:04,140 --> 00:50:07,350 one data product output, 713 00:50:07,350 --> 00:50:09,610 and even the raw data, people do like the raw data. 714 00:50:09,610 --> 00:50:11,847 But I was saying I think this could produce a lot of data, 715 00:50:11,847 --> 00:50:13,650 and one of the issues I think is for people 716 00:50:13,650 --> 00:50:16,920 to easily have a way to subset what they want, 717 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,290 and not get overwhelmed with all the data that's there, 718 00:50:19,290 --> 00:50:21,240 'cause it's just too much to deal with. 719 00:50:22,413 --> 00:50:24,630 [Participant] So I said different audiences 720 00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:27,003 might want different granularity and scale. 721 00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:29,850 So you have raw data, 722 00:50:29,850 --> 00:50:31,200 but I think there's derived products 723 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,110 that could be very useful to people. 724 00:50:34,110 --> 00:50:35,730 The public, it's interesting, 725 00:50:35,730 --> 00:50:38,100 I have a different perspective with the public. 726 00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:40,390 I would love to see long-term trends 727 00:50:41,610 --> 00:50:45,120 of this data over a year or two, 728 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:46,950 but you're answering it really differently, 729 00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:49,920 you're like, "I wanna see the last day". 730 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,900 That's I think an example of how, 731 00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:53,350 I don't think there's one up, 732 00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:56,240 but definitely having a way to subset 733 00:50:58,230 --> 00:51:02,604 and bring it down to scale for different audiences. 734 00:51:02,604 --> 00:51:04,440 [Erika] And I think it's been a great point to capture, 735 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,830 Josh, as we go into more in-depth discussion 736 00:51:07,830 --> 00:51:10,362 that this is gonna be a real nuanced piece of 737 00:51:10,362 --> 00:51:12,713 what we feel it is. 738 00:51:12,713 --> 00:51:14,100 [Participant] I would just say that FEMC 739 00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,203 might be a good model for you in that, 740 00:51:17,203 --> 00:51:21,720 because FEMC has invested in 741 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,600 core environmental data collection. 742 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,140 And then when Jim Duncan was head of FEMC, 743 00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:30,390 I think the big contribution that he made 744 00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:33,480 was dashboard development that became this 745 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,550 how do you take the core data 746 00:51:35,550 --> 00:51:39,270 and get it displayed and accessible 747 00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:41,220 to a whole range of users, 748 00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:45,330 from the manager to the researcher 749 00:51:45,330 --> 00:51:48,600 to the, you name it, the public, that sort of thing. 750 00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:49,530 So you might wanna think of, 751 00:51:49,530 --> 00:51:51,763 and even interview Jim like from that. 752 00:51:51,763 --> 00:51:52,950 [Erika] Yeah, and I think this conversation 753 00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:54,360 will help shape some of our questions 754 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:55,403 and some of the working groups 755 00:51:55,403 --> 00:51:57,583 that we have going forward to get comment. 756 00:51:57,583 --> 00:51:59,340 [Participant] Yeah, I mean I was just thinking 757 00:51:59,340 --> 00:52:01,832 in terms of as a member of the public 758 00:52:01,832 --> 00:52:04,260 and mostly as a recreationalists to the public, 759 00:52:04,260 --> 00:52:08,460 is the two online data sources 760 00:52:08,460 --> 00:52:09,293 that have to do with Stoneback 761 00:52:09,293 --> 00:52:13,200 that I use a ton and really love the way it's presented. 762 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,190 It's different but I wanna shout CA, 763 00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:19,090 it's a really great job in the region. 764 00:52:20,687 --> 00:52:22,860 It's a really wonderful job in what you were talking about 765 00:52:22,860 --> 00:52:26,040 in terms of having a very digestive report 766 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,420 for a very particular use. 767 00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:29,100 I'm not saying it's for avalanches, 768 00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:31,530 but whatever that particular public interest is, 769 00:52:31,530 --> 00:52:34,920 they have a really good way of displaying 770 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,320 and showing the most key information 771 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:38,460 that you need, 772 00:52:38,460 --> 00:52:40,530 and then having a much more detailed 773 00:52:40,530 --> 00:52:41,970 report within that. 774 00:52:41,970 --> 00:52:43,560 That's very much based upon region, 775 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,350 and that also involves a lot of community science, 776 00:52:46,350 --> 00:52:50,130 and that website as well that you can contribute. 777 00:52:50,130 --> 00:52:52,770 So that is I think like a really great resource 778 00:52:52,770 --> 00:52:54,573 or a great way of displaying... 779 00:52:54,573 --> 00:52:55,406 [Erika] Thinking of a model or for data. 780 00:52:56,644 --> 00:52:58,230 [Participant] Yeah, and they also have an app 781 00:52:58,230 --> 00:53:00,543 that is actually usable and really nice. 782 00:53:02,190 --> 00:53:04,920 And then for long-term snowpack data, 783 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,880 I was saying that there's somebody who has a website 784 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,280 for snow depth on Mount Mansfield, 785 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:12,390 it's called Matt Parrilla. 786 00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:15,840 And that's look at it all the time to be like, 787 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,203 how is this year in relationship to every other year? 788 00:53:20,490 --> 00:53:22,860 So those are really well displayed. 789 00:53:22,860 --> 00:53:23,693 [Erika] Great. 790 00:53:24,990 --> 00:53:26,500 Are there any other comments from this group? 791 00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:27,570 [Participant] Yeah, a few others, 792 00:53:27,570 --> 00:53:28,440 most of it's covered already, 793 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,170 but realtime data collection 794 00:53:31,170 --> 00:53:34,590 perhaps updated online every 15-minutes as well. 795 00:53:34,590 --> 00:53:36,450 Got that written down. 796 00:53:36,450 --> 00:53:41,410 For me, I like to graph and I'm more short-term days 797 00:53:43,050 --> 00:53:46,650 looking back, or thinking about public. 798 00:53:46,650 --> 00:53:48,870 If I was with science hat on then 799 00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:50,970 I'm gonna want multiple years. 800 00:53:50,970 --> 00:53:52,833 But public, couple of days. 801 00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:59,070 And co-locate again, this is the same answer 802 00:53:59,070 --> 00:54:02,280 in the previous question with co-locate this 803 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,730 with other sites so that way you're not duplicating, 804 00:54:05,730 --> 00:54:07,260 you have one site a mile away, 805 00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:09,953 and then you've got everyone's collecting weather data. 806 00:54:10,980 --> 00:54:13,653 Put them side by side and utilize each other's data. 807 00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:18,660 And then they would also be measuring, 808 00:54:18,660 --> 00:54:21,147 your co-located site would be measuring the chemistry, 809 00:54:21,147 --> 00:54:23,253 the snow chemistry, or rain chemistry. 810 00:54:24,750 --> 00:54:27,600 Towards the solar radiation, 811 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,363 make sure that long wave radiation's included in that. 812 00:54:31,493 --> 00:54:34,593 And are assuming pressure means atmospheric pressure? 813 00:54:35,890 --> 00:54:36,727 [Dr. Benes] Yes. 814 00:54:36,727 --> 00:54:37,917 [Participant] I was not assuming that 815 00:54:37,917 --> 00:54:41,970 and I asked why we would need to measure pressure. 816 00:54:41,970 --> 00:54:42,977 Oh, of course. 817 00:54:43,889 --> 00:54:44,722 [Participant] Very much pressure. 818 00:54:44,722 --> 00:54:46,931 [Participant] Clarity and word choice. 819 00:54:46,931 --> 00:54:49,170 [Participant] And when you guys mentioned co-location 820 00:54:49,170 --> 00:54:53,670 and chemistry, that NADP sites make sense to me 821 00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:54,660 'cause there's already a lot of 'em. 822 00:54:54,660 --> 00:54:55,493 [Dr. Benes] Absolutely. 823 00:54:55,493 --> 00:54:56,547 [Participant] And they're doing that. 824 00:54:56,547 --> 00:54:59,040 And one thing with the camera that I forgot to mention 825 00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,590 that I learned that's a really cool trick. 826 00:55:01,590 --> 00:55:05,010 So wind sensors, especially at high elevation 827 00:55:05,010 --> 00:55:06,330 are really susceptible to icing, 828 00:55:06,330 --> 00:55:08,880 and you get a lot of times where they're not any good. 829 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,860 But if you have a camera on a snow stake, 830 00:55:10,860 --> 00:55:13,650 you put a feather or a piece of flagging on the top, 831 00:55:13,650 --> 00:55:15,570 it gives you a visual representation 832 00:55:15,570 --> 00:55:16,800 of which way the wind's blowing. 833 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,887 So you can say, gee that thing's raw, it's not working now. 834 00:55:20,887 --> 00:55:22,917 But gives you a way of knowing 835 00:55:22,917 --> 00:55:27,141 if the wind sensor's actually accurate or not. 836 00:55:27,141 --> 00:55:30,350 When you just see a number, you just go by that, 837 00:55:30,350 --> 00:55:31,953 it may may not be right. 838 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:36,370 And it's free or nearly free. 839 00:55:37,410 --> 00:55:38,373 It's little tech. 840 00:55:39,690 --> 00:55:41,250 [Erika] Any other comments? 841 00:55:41,250 --> 00:55:42,300 Can I collect your sticky notes, 842 00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:44,510 and I'll pass out the next one. 843 00:55:44,510 --> 00:55:47,490 [Participant] Looks like Julia may be contributing. 844 00:55:47,490 --> 00:55:48,390 [Dr. Benes] Oh, is there somebody online 845 00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:49,540 that wants to chime in? 846 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,303 Anyone online that wants to chime in? 847 00:55:56,217 --> 00:55:59,370 -[Julia] Hi, it's just Julia. -[Dr. Benes] Hi, Julia. 848 00:55:59,370 --> 00:56:01,380 [Julia] Hey, how's it going? 849 00:56:01,380 --> 00:56:02,700 I jumped in kind of late, sorry, 850 00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:04,590 I was going between sessions. 851 00:56:04,590 --> 00:56:07,830 But I just also, the USGS, the National Water Dashboard, 852 00:56:07,830 --> 00:56:10,060 similarly has like a lot of stations 853 00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:13,230 with variable parameters at different stations 854 00:56:13,230 --> 00:56:17,910 and you can show the data at different timescales. 855 00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:19,680 Not that this has to replicate it, 856 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,580 but it would be another place to look. 857 00:56:23,130 --> 00:56:25,643 [Dr. Benes] Fantastic, got that idea down, thank you. 858 00:56:28,740 --> 00:56:32,340 So we'll transition now to two different categories, 859 00:56:32,340 --> 00:56:33,900 and if other ideas come up 860 00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:35,940 as we are starting to talk about these other categories, 861 00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:37,320 don't hesitate to jump up here 862 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,420 and grab one of the other color notepads, 863 00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:44,010 and throw on ideas on the walls around here. 864 00:56:44,010 --> 00:56:48,240 But the next topic area that we wanted to discuss 865 00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:49,920 was the distribution of sites. 866 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,880 So I threw on a map here just examples, 867 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,090 and I put the New York State snow monitoring sites 868 00:56:57,090 --> 00:56:59,670 just as static images on this slide, 869 00:56:59,670 --> 00:57:01,590 because they're already set there. 870 00:57:01,590 --> 00:57:05,370 But in terms of this NESS feasibility study, 871 00:57:05,370 --> 00:57:08,430 and thinking about the distribution of sites across Vermont, 872 00:57:08,430 --> 00:57:11,820 New Hampshire and Maine, would we be thinking about 873 00:57:11,820 --> 00:57:15,360 regional distribution, distribution of these sites 874 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,110 really focused on high elevation areas, 875 00:57:19,110 --> 00:57:23,820 or focused more on elevational gradients across the region? 876 00:57:23,820 --> 00:57:24,660 So there's different ways 877 00:57:24,660 --> 00:57:27,780 that these stations could be distributed. 878 00:57:27,780 --> 00:57:29,880 Would love any of your ideas on 879 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,443 the distribution of the sites. 880 00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:37,700 And then also, so that's gonna be the yellow ones, 881 00:57:38,190 --> 00:57:39,848 but then we're also gonna have orange 882 00:57:39,848 --> 00:57:42,810 during this breakout as well 883 00:57:42,810 --> 00:57:46,290 focused on the overall network design of NESS, 884 00:57:46,290 --> 00:57:48,090 what are the must-haves, should-haves 885 00:57:48,090 --> 00:57:49,680 and would-be-nice-to-haves, 886 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,420 and what should we be thinking about in terms 887 00:57:51,420 --> 00:57:53,250 of network design? 888 00:57:53,250 --> 00:57:54,900 So these two going hand-in-hand, 889 00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:57,300 because I think overall network design 890 00:57:57,300 --> 00:58:00,930 feeds into the distribution of these sites. 891 00:58:00,930 --> 00:58:01,763 [Erika] And actually, 892 00:58:01,763 --> 00:58:04,320 I only gave you one yellow color piece of paper 893 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,509 so you can put them all, both on one. 894 00:58:07,509 --> 00:58:08,448 Don't get confused. 895 00:58:08,448 --> 00:58:09,714 [Participant] Can you explain that one more, 896 00:58:09,714 --> 00:58:12,083 because I honestly have no idea what you're looking for? 897 00:58:12,930 --> 00:58:13,770 -[Dr. Benes] In terms of... -[Participant] It's different 898 00:58:13,770 --> 00:58:15,540 than what was on the other one? 899 00:58:15,540 --> 00:58:17,550 [Dr. Benes] Yeah, I guess, Erika, 900 00:58:17,550 --> 00:58:18,510 feel free to chime in too, 901 00:58:18,510 --> 00:58:21,490 but I'm thinking in terms of 902 00:58:25,380 --> 00:58:30,380 what are the overall main take-home things 903 00:58:30,510 --> 00:58:33,659 that these sites would be measuring, 904 00:58:33,659 --> 00:58:35,710 not just measuring, but overall 905 00:58:39,900 --> 00:58:43,380 necessities for this network. 906 00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:45,780 What are the main take-home messages? 907 00:58:45,780 --> 00:58:48,180 I don't know if you have examples. 908 00:58:48,180 --> 00:58:49,290 [Erika] I've been thinking about this, 909 00:58:49,290 --> 00:58:50,580 it's given all the things we've talked about, 910 00:58:50,580 --> 00:58:51,540 we've talked about objectives, 911 00:58:51,540 --> 00:58:52,920 we talked about data products, 912 00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:54,780 we're gonna be talking about sites, 913 00:58:54,780 --> 00:58:56,370 what are the priorities there? 914 00:58:56,370 --> 00:58:59,730 If you had to design your network 915 00:58:59,730 --> 00:59:02,010 for just the things that we must have, 916 00:59:02,010 --> 00:59:05,580 where would the sites be, what would the data products be? 917 00:59:05,580 --> 00:59:07,350 What would the objectives be? 918 00:59:07,350 --> 00:59:11,280 Or if you could expand it out more, for example, 919 00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,048 if we can only measure snow water equivalent 920 00:59:15,048 --> 00:59:16,983 at the tops of mountains, 921 00:59:18,990 --> 00:59:22,680 that would be one kind of overall network design. 922 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,170 But we're trying to think something bigger and better. 923 00:59:25,170 --> 00:59:28,260 And the reason this is important is that, 924 00:59:28,260 --> 00:59:32,370 as Josh talked about in his opening remarks, 925 00:59:32,370 --> 00:59:35,640 when the report goes back to the NRCS, 926 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:36,757 it's gonna be like, 927 00:59:36,757 --> 00:59:40,627 "Well here's our bare-bones design", and then, 928 00:59:40,627 --> 00:59:42,360 "Here's what it would be if we could have 929 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,460 these next things," the should-haves. 930 00:59:44,460 --> 00:59:46,600 And wouldn't it be nice if it could cover 931 00:59:47,850 --> 00:59:50,190 the entire elevational gradient on every mountain, 932 00:59:50,190 --> 00:59:52,890 on every aspect, kind of thing. 933 00:59:52,890 --> 00:59:54,603 It's to that point. 934 00:59:55,530 --> 00:59:58,140 [Participant] Have you looked at all at SNOTEL network 935 00:59:58,140 --> 00:59:59,733 out west and compared? 936 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,240 [Dr. Benes] That's what we're gonna be looking into more. 937 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,760 [Erika] The leadership group is taking a field trip 938 01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,030 out to Utah in January. 939 01:00:12,103 --> 01:00:14,123 To take a look at those, yeah, and to ask 940 01:00:14,123 --> 01:00:16,073 some of these more technical questions. 941 01:00:17,850 --> 01:00:20,640 [Participant] So you're talking about siting, 942 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,080 or are you talking about... 943 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:23,910 [Erika] Let's go back, let's make this easy, 944 01:00:23,910 --> 01:00:25,230 let's go back to the previous slide, 945 01:00:25,230 --> 01:00:30,230 and just work on site locations. 946 01:00:30,570 --> 01:00:32,880 If you were gonna distribute these sites, 947 01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,850 where would they be, only high elevations, spread out, 948 01:00:35,850 --> 01:00:38,163 valleys, elevational gradients? 949 01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:41,063 From your perspective, 950 01:00:41,063 --> 01:00:42,790 what would be important to capture. 951 01:00:44,370 --> 01:00:45,660 And again, let's start with a minute, 952 01:00:45,660 --> 01:00:48,177 we can just go from a minute of reflection 953 01:00:48,177 --> 01:00:50,283 and then we'll just jump into group, 954 01:00:52,530 --> 01:00:54,710 especially since we've lost some folks here. 955 01:02:48,420 --> 01:02:50,883 Feel free to start talking as groups now. 956 01:02:59,624 --> 01:03:03,124 (participants chattering) 957 01:03:36,563 --> 01:03:40,896 (participants chattering continues) 958 01:04:10,195 --> 01:04:14,528 (participants chattering continues) 959 01:04:54,705 --> 01:04:59,038 (participants chattering continues) 960 01:05:40,354 --> 01:05:44,687 (participants chattering continues) 961 01:06:18,796 --> 01:06:23,129 (participants chattering continues) 962 01:07:09,732 --> 01:07:11,649 Wrapping up this piece. 963 01:07:13,114 --> 01:07:15,414 Can I hear a little bit of what folks thought. 964 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,135 We'll start with you guys. 965 01:07:20,135 --> 01:07:21,085 [Participant] I have a big list. 966 01:07:21,085 --> 01:07:22,230 (all laugh) 967 01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:24,743 But I've been talking to Josh about this for a while. 968 01:07:25,830 --> 01:07:28,110 So a number of us like to hear the whole discussion, 969 01:07:28,110 --> 01:07:30,450 I've been talking about leveraging existing sites, 970 01:07:30,450 --> 01:07:33,000 like the SCAN sites seem like almost a no-brainer, 971 01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,720 because they're already set up for climate analysis. 972 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,870 Piggybacking on top of that network, maybe the CoCoRaHS, 973 01:07:39,870 --> 01:07:43,530 which is like a lay monitoring network to look into that, 974 01:07:43,530 --> 01:07:45,990 where those are across the region, 975 01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:49,110 research sites like in New Hampshire, Hubbard Brook, 976 01:07:49,110 --> 01:07:52,530 Mount Washington, obviously, the Whiteface network, 977 01:07:52,530 --> 01:07:55,800 Sleepers River, but also considering university properties 978 01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,440 because of the potential that it might offer 979 01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,953 for student engagement research. 980 01:08:02,790 --> 01:08:07,430 So that's a big overall, don't build a network, it's... 981 01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,329 [Participant] Reinventing the wheel! 982 01:08:12,329 --> 01:08:15,270 [Participant] Let's build it off of what already exists. 983 01:08:15,270 --> 01:08:17,250 I don't know that anyone else in our group said this, 984 01:08:17,250 --> 01:08:19,260 but we have been grappling a lot with this 985 01:08:19,260 --> 01:08:21,153 in our Summit-to-Shore project. 986 01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,320 We put a lot of our monitoring sites under the forest, 987 01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,840 the forest canopy, because we're trying to get them 988 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:29,340 sited along an elevation gradient. 989 01:08:29,340 --> 01:08:31,920 It's completely forested setting mostly, 990 01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,130 but Met sites are typically sited in openings, 991 01:08:35,130 --> 01:08:37,050 and I think you all should watch for that 992 01:08:37,050 --> 01:08:37,883 when you go... 993 01:08:37,883 --> 01:08:39,600 [Erika] That's a good point that I hadn't thought about. 994 01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,819 I'm sure other people in our team have thought of that, 995 01:08:41,819 --> 01:08:43,319 which is that differentiation. 996 01:08:44,460 --> 01:08:45,780 [Participant] Generally if you're gonna 997 01:08:45,780 --> 01:08:46,830 buy all that equipment 998 01:08:46,830 --> 01:08:48,540 that you had on your list, Josh, be careful, 999 01:08:48,540 --> 01:08:51,420 because that needs to be sited in an opening. 1000 01:08:51,420 --> 01:08:56,420 But there is this what actually gets caught on the ground 1001 01:08:56,790 --> 01:08:59,130 and contributes to the hydrology and habitat 1002 01:08:59,130 --> 01:09:01,110 and all these things is important. 1003 01:09:01,110 --> 01:09:03,690 So sometimes like not considering at least, 1004 01:09:03,690 --> 01:09:05,643 or asking, let's not tell people. 1005 01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:08,910 You did not have on your list, 1006 01:09:08,910 --> 01:09:11,171 but I think it's super important to consider, 1007 01:09:11,171 --> 01:09:13,050 and Peter Groffman made this point, staffing. 1008 01:09:13,050 --> 01:09:16,110 I would design your network with staffing 1009 01:09:16,110 --> 01:09:18,180 as your number one priority, 1010 01:09:18,180 --> 01:09:19,800 because you collect all this data, 1011 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,060 and you don't have the staff 1012 01:09:21,060 --> 01:09:24,030 to go collect the data from the field, 1013 01:09:24,030 --> 01:09:28,260 deal with the equipment, make sure you curate the data, 1014 01:09:28,260 --> 01:09:30,030 get it up, it's not reflective 1015 01:09:30,030 --> 01:09:30,990 if you don't have the staff. 1016 01:09:30,990 --> 01:09:34,290 And it's hard to get funding for staff, 1017 01:09:34,290 --> 01:09:38,730 but without the staff everything else caves in. 1018 01:09:38,730 --> 01:09:40,953 So I would put staffing up. 1019 01:09:41,790 --> 01:09:43,770 Related to that I think there are some 1020 01:09:43,770 --> 01:09:47,100 really great opportunities today to use community science, 1021 01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:48,810 super simple measurements 1022 01:09:48,810 --> 01:09:51,900 distributed like post in the ground 1023 01:09:51,900 --> 01:09:54,450 that you could ask people when they're skiing past 1024 01:09:54,450 --> 01:09:56,310 or recreating past, take a picture 1025 01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:58,710 and send it to this website we set up. 1026 01:09:58,710 --> 01:10:02,430 So a much more distributed network of simple snow dat, 1027 01:10:02,430 --> 01:10:04,380 that would be community based 1028 01:10:04,380 --> 01:10:08,310 with a scale back network of what we know in the last week 1029 01:10:08,310 --> 01:10:09,453 until, could work. 1030 01:10:11,940 --> 01:10:14,430 This is kind of related to your network design, 1031 01:10:14,430 --> 01:10:18,210 but just to think about there's a whole science behind 1032 01:10:18,210 --> 01:10:21,180 optimal sensor placement representativeness, 1033 01:10:21,180 --> 01:10:25,020 and the scale at which sensors of any kind express. 1034 01:10:25,020 --> 01:10:28,650 So try to engage someone who's an expert on that, 1035 01:10:28,650 --> 01:10:31,170 and thinking about that, maybe even using some of the data 1036 01:10:31,170 --> 01:10:34,863 that we have in the northeast to ask that question. 1037 01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,400 That's kind of my high list. 1038 01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:40,470 Was there anything I didn't pick up? 1039 01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:41,978 [Participant] Yes, where the sites, 1040 01:10:41,978 --> 01:10:45,450 transect versus summit versus regional folk. 1041 01:10:45,450 --> 01:10:47,973 [Participant] Yeah, we grappled with that 1042 01:10:47,973 --> 01:10:50,340 with the Summit-to-Shore Project too, 1043 01:10:50,340 --> 01:10:53,310 because we knew that elevation was a key control, 1044 01:10:53,310 --> 01:10:55,740 so we wanted to capture that elevation. 1045 01:10:55,740 --> 01:10:58,590 We also wanted it regionally across the state. 1046 01:10:58,590 --> 01:11:00,960 So we opted for this across the state 1047 01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,090 at kind of a broad scale and then very intensive 1048 01:11:03,090 --> 01:11:05,220 on the elevation region. 1049 01:11:05,220 --> 01:11:07,350 [Participant] And one of the thoughts on that was 1050 01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:08,730 it goes back to the first question, 1051 01:11:08,730 --> 01:11:10,860 depends on what you're trying to do. 1052 01:11:10,860 --> 01:11:14,430 If you want it to be relevant to the public and the people, 1053 01:11:14,430 --> 01:11:16,710 then it can't all be on the top of a mountain, 1054 01:11:16,710 --> 01:11:19,590 'cause gotta be where they are, 1055 01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:21,303 or what they're wanting to do is. 1056 01:11:22,917 --> 01:11:26,387 [Participant] Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt you. 1057 01:11:26,387 --> 01:11:28,350 [Erika] I was gonna say to your point 1058 01:11:28,350 --> 01:11:30,795 about these other existing networks, 1059 01:11:30,795 --> 01:11:33,960 one of the other aspects of this early 1060 01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:35,610 interest holder engagement piece is 1061 01:11:35,610 --> 01:11:37,500 that we're doing a data scan. 1062 01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:39,480 So trying to reach out to as many folks 1063 01:11:39,480 --> 01:11:41,970 who have either formal, informal, 1064 01:11:41,970 --> 01:11:45,840 automated, manual, just networks to understand this. 1065 01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,990 That's one of our codes. 1066 01:11:48,990 --> 01:11:51,603 You guys have things to add? 1067 01:11:52,619 --> 01:11:54,303 [Participant] I can speak. 1068 01:11:56,010 --> 01:11:58,510 I think, well Beverly pretty much exhausted 1069 01:11:59,698 --> 01:12:03,031 (interference on audio) 1070 01:12:06,990 --> 01:12:11,057 But, yeah, generally optimizing to target the heterogeneity 1071 01:12:11,057 --> 01:12:13,470 of all of the different factors that you could. 1072 01:12:13,470 --> 01:12:14,420 And we were saying, 1073 01:12:15,570 --> 01:12:18,570 obviously you want the most data possible, 1074 01:12:18,570 --> 01:12:20,940 so ideally we'd have a Met station 1075 01:12:20,940 --> 01:12:23,703 every couple of hundred feet, but that's not realistic. 1076 01:12:24,750 --> 01:12:29,750 But really trying to have as much replication 1077 01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:33,540 and also variability captured. 1078 01:12:33,540 --> 01:12:36,957 And replication component for comparing training 1079 01:12:36,957 --> 01:12:39,990 and testing data too is really valuable. 1080 01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:43,290 So not just having one set measurement 1081 01:12:43,290 --> 01:12:44,550 on the top of Mount Mansfield, 1082 01:12:44,550 --> 01:12:46,950 but ideally having further measurement 1083 01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:48,780 maybe on top of Camel's Hump as well, 1084 01:12:48,780 --> 01:12:51,093 or on the top of Jay Peak. 1085 01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:55,620 [Erika] Has everybody written these things in their notes? 1086 01:12:55,620 --> 01:12:57,600 Because you guys are our notetakers, 1087 01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:58,890 so I'm hoping that you've captured 1088 01:12:58,890 --> 01:13:01,260 as much of this as possible in your notes. 1089 01:13:01,260 --> 01:13:02,370 [Dr. Benes] And I'm also writing down 1090 01:13:02,370 --> 01:13:05,613 some things that are being told narratively here too. 1091 01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,260 But appreciate you writing it all down as well, 1092 01:13:09,260 --> 01:13:10,760 so we make sure we capture it. 1093 01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:21,083 [Participant] And I was thinking, 1094 01:13:24,060 --> 01:13:28,200 obviously I think there's people who have sited networks 1095 01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:29,520 other than me that know more, 1096 01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,950 but if there's not a given protocol, 1097 01:13:31,950 --> 01:13:34,470 I guess one of the opportunities here 1098 01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:38,970 would be to, you could have a regional network 1099 01:13:38,970 --> 01:13:41,670 and some gradients, elevational gradients, 1100 01:13:41,670 --> 01:13:43,740 and some very dense clusters, 1101 01:13:43,740 --> 01:13:46,560 and you could really look at, 1102 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:48,360 you get a lot more data if you cluster. 1103 01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,850 Use that as a comparison to... 1104 01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:52,500 [Erika] Yeah, that's a really interesting... 1105 01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:53,400 [Participant] Where you're siting them, 1106 01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:54,750 and if you were gonna do it again, 1107 01:13:54,750 --> 01:13:56,250 would you wanna add more clusters, 1108 01:13:56,250 --> 01:13:58,293 or would you wanna add more gradients? 1109 01:13:59,700 --> 01:14:01,888 So that's another big thing to think about. 1110 01:14:01,888 --> 01:14:03,590 That could be a completely... 1111 01:14:03,590 --> 01:14:04,530 [Erika] It was learning component, 1112 01:14:04,530 --> 01:14:08,100 because thinking about that second question 1113 01:14:08,100 --> 01:14:10,860 that Josh was asking about must-haves, 1114 01:14:10,860 --> 01:14:13,170 should-haves, wouldn't-it-be-great-to-have, 1115 01:14:13,170 --> 01:14:15,780 it might be that initial chunk of funding comes in 1116 01:14:15,780 --> 01:14:18,150 and then the network maybe 10-years later. 1117 01:14:18,150 --> 01:14:21,180 But if you had almost like a study design 1118 01:14:21,180 --> 01:14:24,420 and the way you sited, you could figure out how to 1119 01:14:24,420 --> 01:14:28,140 maybe take advantage of that when you're building out. 1120 01:14:28,140 --> 01:14:29,910 [Participant] How you organize, how you built it out. 1121 01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:30,743 [Erika] Yeah. 1122 01:14:31,590 --> 01:14:33,090 Anything else from this group? 1123 01:14:35,940 --> 01:14:39,330 [Participant] Watersheds, make sure you have a site 1124 01:14:39,330 --> 01:14:44,040 in each major watershed of the state and a slope aspect. 1125 01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:47,523 So the north to south nature, the Green Mountains, 1126 01:14:48,420 --> 01:14:51,420 there's a huge difference between the east and west side, 1127 01:14:51,420 --> 01:14:52,530 obviously. 1128 01:14:52,530 --> 01:14:54,510 [Erika] That also gets you guys in your microclimates too, 1129 01:14:54,510 --> 01:14:55,920 thinking about that in the aspect. 1130 01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:57,090 [Participant] Yeah, a lot of what we have, 1131 01:14:57,090 --> 01:14:59,100 like Beverly mentioned siting, 1132 01:14:59,100 --> 01:15:00,790 for NADP there's a 1133 01:15:02,550 --> 01:15:04,680 45-degree rule. 1134 01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:07,170 If you're looking up at the site with a clinometer 1135 01:15:07,170 --> 01:15:11,190 that there's no tree, no obstruction, they want 30-degrees, 1136 01:15:11,190 --> 01:15:12,960 but they'll accept 45. 1137 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,810 So it's really hard, especially in the Adirondack Park, 1138 01:15:15,810 --> 01:15:17,430 you can't just go cutting trees. 1139 01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:21,720 So that's why a lot of sites end up in agricultural areas. 1140 01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,030 There's not a lot of natural openings. 1141 01:15:24,030 --> 01:15:26,403 So there's limitations there. 1142 01:15:27,990 --> 01:15:30,093 Proximity to population centers. 1143 01:15:31,659 --> 01:15:33,450 So a point was brought up about, 1144 01:15:33,450 --> 01:15:35,700 this isn't just for skiers, 1145 01:15:35,700 --> 01:15:37,590 I know there's more snowpack in the mountains, 1146 01:15:37,590 --> 01:15:41,433 but there's not no snowpack at lower elevations. 1147 01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:45,330 And I would definitely reiterate what was said 1148 01:15:45,330 --> 01:15:48,507 about talking to people in existing networks 1149 01:15:48,507 --> 01:15:51,330 and what works for them and what does not work for them. 1150 01:15:51,330 --> 01:15:53,970 And maybe not going out and buying all your sensors 1151 01:15:53,970 --> 01:15:56,460 for all sites at first. 1152 01:15:56,460 --> 01:16:01,110 Maybe build one site and try it for a while as a pilot, 1153 01:16:01,110 --> 01:16:02,910 and see what works and what doesn't. 1154 01:16:05,340 --> 01:16:06,923 [Erika] Anything else from this group? 1155 01:16:09,270 --> 01:16:12,240 Well before we transition to Josh's last piece, 1156 01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,210 I wanna thank you all so much for your input here, 1157 01:16:15,210 --> 01:16:17,880 because a lot of these preliminary discussions we have 1158 01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:21,930 are really gonna help inform the more in-depth conversations 1159 01:16:21,930 --> 01:16:23,250 and workshops that we're gonna have, 1160 01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:25,350 they'll touch on more of these things. 1161 01:16:25,350 --> 01:16:27,420 But this is definitely given us ideas 1162 01:16:27,420 --> 01:16:29,580 on how to structure those conversations. 1163 01:16:29,580 --> 01:16:33,540 Also, if you'd like to be involved going forward, 1164 01:16:33,540 --> 01:16:34,500 what I've been telling people 1165 01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:36,150 that I've been interviewing on the phone 1166 01:16:36,150 --> 01:16:37,980 is these are very preliminary, 1167 01:16:37,980 --> 01:16:41,280 probably towards the end of January, beginning of February 1168 01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:43,260 when the folks and leadership team gets back 1169 01:16:43,260 --> 01:16:46,950 from doing their SNOTEL visits, 1170 01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:50,160 we'll have a virtual meeting to dig in a little bit deeper, 1171 01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:53,190 which will be followed by an in-person meeting 1172 01:16:53,190 --> 01:16:58,190 at one of the AMC facilities in March or April 1173 01:16:58,530 --> 01:17:01,811 where we'll really tackle these in-depth, 1174 01:17:01,811 --> 01:17:05,313 and be starting to make some preliminary decisions. 1175 01:17:06,420 --> 01:17:08,400 Well, we'd love to have you sign this up, 1176 01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:10,950 but in particular if you wanna be involved going forward, 1177 01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:12,120 if you could indicate that, 1178 01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:14,793 and we'll be sure to get you information by email. 1179 01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:19,080 [Dr. Benes] And these QR codes and URLs 1180 01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:21,900 are also on the backside of the one-pagers 1181 01:17:21,900 --> 01:17:25,320 that I handed out about NESS to all of you. 1182 01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:29,250 So if you wanna return to the survey at a later time, 1183 01:17:29,250 --> 01:17:31,443 or both surveys, I'd really appreciate it. 1184 01:17:34,981 --> 01:17:36,840 [Erika] It's okay, I won't interrupt. 1185 01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:38,740 [Dr. Benes] So as we're closing out, 1186 01:17:39,930 --> 01:17:42,720 the last piece to this working group session is 1187 01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:46,080 discussing this mountain of observatory network. 1188 01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,780 As I mentioned last year for this working group session, 1189 01:17:48,780 --> 01:17:51,690 we had this discussion about forming a regional network 1190 01:17:51,690 --> 01:17:54,180 of mountain observatories here in the northeast. 1191 01:17:54,180 --> 01:17:57,240 And we've been continuing to have a monthly seminar series 1192 01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:00,180 and we have a lot of participating partners already 1193 01:18:00,180 --> 01:18:04,590 across the region with monitoring infrastructure 1194 01:18:04,590 --> 01:18:06,180 on a lot of different mountain peaks 1195 01:18:06,180 --> 01:18:09,360 and high elevation areas across the region. 1196 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:14,360 And so we're starting to consider ways to collaborate, 1197 01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:17,010 work together on a whole host 1198 01:18:17,010 --> 01:18:20,040 of interdisciplinary research areas. 1199 01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:23,460 And one exciting new development is that 1200 01:18:23,460 --> 01:18:25,800 I have collaborated with Dr. Arne Bomblies, 1201 01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,820 who's the PI on the Summit-to-Shore Project here 1202 01:18:29,820 --> 01:18:31,980 that has all of these monitoring stations 1203 01:18:31,980 --> 01:18:35,370 from Lake Champlain to Sleepers River Research Watershed 1204 01:18:35,370 --> 01:18:37,050 in the northeast kingdom, 1205 01:18:37,050 --> 01:18:40,230 and the Atmospheric Sciences Research Center 1206 01:18:40,230 --> 01:18:42,540 on Whiteface Mountain in New York, 1207 01:18:42,540 --> 01:18:43,950 and New York State Mesonet, 1208 01:18:43,950 --> 01:18:48,690 and the Mount Washington Mesonet, 1209 01:18:48,690 --> 01:18:50,517 Mount Washington Observatory Mesonet. 1210 01:18:50,517 --> 01:18:53,760 And so we collectively wrote a grant 1211 01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:57,210 to the Environmental Protection Agency Environmental Network 1212 01:18:57,210 --> 01:19:01,770 to develop a shared web platform for our collective data 1213 01:19:01,770 --> 01:19:05,340 of weather monitoring stations that we already had in place 1214 01:19:05,340 --> 01:19:06,720 across the region, 1215 01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:09,270 and recently learned that it was funded. 1216 01:19:09,270 --> 01:19:12,960 We're gonna be starting work on this project very soon. 1217 01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,030 And the overall goal is be able to 1218 01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:16,500 standardize data management 1219 01:19:16,500 --> 01:19:19,050 between our different mountain observatories, 1220 01:19:19,050 --> 01:19:21,330 engage area stakeholders across the region 1221 01:19:21,330 --> 01:19:23,820 to think about how our weather monitoring stations 1222 01:19:23,820 --> 01:19:28,470 can best benefit stakeholders across the region, 1223 01:19:28,470 --> 01:19:33,470 and identify how our monitoring stations can best connect 1224 01:19:33,780 --> 01:19:34,786 into national and 1225 01:19:34,786 --> 01:19:37,650 international climate monitoring objectives 1226 01:19:37,650 --> 01:19:39,480 in high elevation environments. 1227 01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:43,110 And also to develop this shared web portal for 1228 01:19:43,110 --> 01:19:46,290 our various pieces of our data 1229 01:19:46,290 --> 01:19:49,957 that would be available in live-time on the web. 1230 01:19:49,957 --> 01:19:51,320 And so... 1231 01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:53,360 [Participant] Go back to that slide. 1232 01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:55,920 How many of these sites exist now? 1233 01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:59,070 [Dr. Benes] So there's 22 Summit-to-Shore sites, 1234 01:19:59,070 --> 01:20:03,420 Mount Washington has 24, I believe. 1235 01:20:03,420 --> 01:20:04,253 I would have to double check 1236 01:20:04,253 --> 01:20:05,400 with the Mount Washington Observatory, 1237 01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,320 but they recently received a grant 1238 01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,150 to be able to add even additional ones 1239 01:20:09,150 --> 01:20:11,160 on mounted peaks across the whites, 1240 01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:12,690 which will be integrated in this network. 1241 01:20:12,690 --> 01:20:15,755 And Whiteface has three, correct, Paul? 1242 01:20:15,755 --> 01:20:16,588 [Paul] Yes. 1243 01:20:16,588 --> 01:20:18,390 [Participant] So these all exist? 1244 01:20:18,390 --> 01:20:19,223 [Dr. Benes] These all exist. 1245 01:20:19,223 --> 01:20:21,285 [Participant] All these all exist, okay. 1246 01:20:21,285 --> 01:20:23,640 [Dr. Benes] So we're taking monitoring stations 1247 01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:25,860 that all exist and we're putting 'em together 1248 01:20:25,860 --> 01:20:27,060 on a shared web platform, 1249 01:20:27,060 --> 01:20:30,720 and developing ideas and ways to be able to better 1250 01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:34,230 standardize our monitoring practices across the region 1251 01:20:34,230 --> 01:20:36,450 and be able to have a shared web portal 1252 01:20:36,450 --> 01:20:40,740 for certain pieces of our data that we're producing. 1253 01:20:40,740 --> 01:20:45,690 And when we're thinking about this in relation to NESS, 1254 01:20:45,690 --> 01:20:48,030 one of the things that I've been at least thinking about is 1255 01:20:49,170 --> 01:20:51,330 we're starting with this subset 1256 01:20:51,330 --> 01:20:54,540 of mountain observatories, this is Hubbard Brook over here, 1257 01:20:54,540 --> 01:20:57,480 so Hubbard Brook wasn't included in this EPA grant, 1258 01:20:57,480 --> 01:21:00,540 but maybe someday Hubbard Brook and maybe Cadillac Mountain 1259 01:21:00,540 --> 01:21:02,250 and other mountains would be potentially 1260 01:21:02,250 --> 01:21:03,450 included in the network. 1261 01:21:03,450 --> 01:21:05,550 Hopefully this is the first stage 1262 01:21:05,550 --> 01:21:08,340 of a Mountain Observatory Network in the region. 1263 01:21:08,340 --> 01:21:11,820 But one of the things that I wanted to gauge all of you on 1264 01:21:11,820 --> 01:21:15,360 is how would this Mountain Observatory Network 1265 01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:16,347 maybe complement NESS? 1266 01:21:16,347 --> 01:21:20,430 And maybe one idea is have a Hub and Spoke model of sorts 1267 01:21:20,430 --> 01:21:23,670 where there's more intensive monitoring 1268 01:21:23,670 --> 01:21:25,890 on mountains across the region 1269 01:21:25,890 --> 01:21:27,720 that complements a more regional approach 1270 01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,003 that may be generated through NESS. 1271 01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:36,320 And so we have ideas that can be written down, 1272 01:21:36,540 --> 01:21:37,680 the last few minutes here, 1273 01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:40,740 we can also just generally have a group discussion 1274 01:21:40,740 --> 01:21:42,720 about these ideas as well. 1275 01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:46,350 But if you have ideas that you wanna draw down, 1276 01:21:46,350 --> 01:21:47,563 I really appreciate it as well. 1277 01:21:47,563 --> 01:21:51,120 I can hand out the pink Post-its around, 1278 01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:55,050 but would appreciate any ideas that all of you have about 1279 01:21:55,050 --> 01:21:57,300 what monitoring components should be championed, 1280 01:21:57,300 --> 01:22:00,330 particularly with the Mountain Observatory Network, 1281 01:22:00,330 --> 01:22:03,630 and how would a Mountain Observatory Network 1282 01:22:03,630 --> 01:22:04,833 complement NESS? 1283 01:22:05,897 --> 01:22:08,610 And are there certain objectives or things 1284 01:22:08,610 --> 01:22:10,110 that we should be thinking about in terms of 1285 01:22:10,110 --> 01:22:13,740 overlap or duplication, and how do we avoid that? 1286 01:22:13,740 --> 01:22:18,740 So maybe meet in your groups of four for just a few minutes 1287 01:22:18,900 --> 01:22:22,433 and then we'll reflect with a larger group. 1288 01:22:42,772 --> 01:22:44,085 [Participant] Can you switch back to the questions? 1289 01:22:44,085 --> 01:22:45,668 [Dr. Benes] Yeah. 1290 01:22:58,972 --> 01:23:02,472 (participants chattering) 1291 01:23:29,340 --> 01:23:31,230 Okay, so maybe we can just transition to 1292 01:23:31,230 --> 01:23:33,153 sharing ideas as a large group, 1293 01:23:35,572 --> 01:23:38,370 and just have a dialogue in last few minutes here. 1294 01:23:38,370 --> 01:23:40,290 So general ideas or thoughts 1295 01:23:40,290 --> 01:23:42,963 that people have in response to these prompts? 1296 01:23:43,860 --> 01:23:44,693 Beverly? 1297 01:23:44,693 --> 01:23:45,609 [Beverly] I have one. 1298 01:23:45,609 --> 01:23:48,210 I'm just reflecting on the monthly meetings 1299 01:23:48,210 --> 01:23:49,320 that you've generated, 1300 01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:51,060 which I have been really impressed at 1301 01:23:51,060 --> 01:23:53,100 how many people have shown up at them. 1302 01:23:53,100 --> 01:23:57,363 And my sense is that they've been a blend of, 1303 01:23:59,607 --> 01:24:00,810 I can't think of a good term to put on this, 1304 01:24:00,810 --> 01:24:03,750 so I'll use examples, like stakeholders Ram, AMC, 1305 01:24:03,750 --> 01:24:06,063 and the Whiteface Network and so on. 1306 01:24:07,345 --> 01:24:10,560 So the actors that have made this monitoring happen, 1307 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:14,550 and then you've had a few scientists drop in 1308 01:24:14,550 --> 01:24:16,500 and give presentations, Peter Groffman, 1309 01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:18,090 Jennifer Jacobs and so on. 1310 01:24:18,090 --> 01:24:21,570 You might think about moving towards developing 1311 01:24:21,570 --> 01:24:25,110 a community of practice around the field technicians, 1312 01:24:25,110 --> 01:24:28,050 the people that are going out and getting the data. 1313 01:24:28,050 --> 01:24:29,980 So I'm thinking about the Ben Porters 1314 01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,550 and whoever is the people who are constantly maintaining, 1315 01:24:35,550 --> 01:24:37,350 I'm thinking about the guy we met with 1316 01:24:37,350 --> 01:24:39,660 over in the New York Network. 1317 01:24:39,660 --> 01:24:40,770 [Erika] Scott? 1318 01:24:40,770 --> 01:24:43,230 [Beverly] Yeah, so a community practice 1319 01:24:43,230 --> 01:24:46,890 that would be targeted at certain kinds of players, 1320 01:24:46,890 --> 01:24:48,810 and those technicians are really key 1321 01:24:48,810 --> 01:24:51,150 and having them learn from each other. 1322 01:24:51,150 --> 01:24:53,940 And then the data curators, 1323 01:24:53,940 --> 01:24:58,170 they're a separate group, and sometimes maybe they overlap, 1324 01:24:58,170 --> 01:25:00,150 but they'd learn. 1325 01:25:00,150 --> 01:25:03,810 And then possibly even a community of graduate students 1326 01:25:03,810 --> 01:25:06,900 that are all working on snow-related projects 1327 01:25:06,900 --> 01:25:08,730 and try to encourage those. 1328 01:25:08,730 --> 01:25:11,070 We had a great conversation today at lunchtime 1329 01:25:11,070 --> 01:25:14,970 with a graduate student here at EDM studying forest and snow 1330 01:25:14,970 --> 01:25:17,670 and Anna who's studying snow and meteorology, 1331 01:25:17,670 --> 01:25:20,280 and there's graduate students over in New York, 1332 01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:22,530 and I'm sure in New Hampshire and Maine, 1333 01:25:22,530 --> 01:25:26,220 trying to cultivate those, relationship building 1334 01:25:26,220 --> 01:25:28,383 among those individuals too. 1335 01:25:29,310 --> 01:25:30,503 [Dr. Benes] Great idea. 1336 01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:35,220 Any other thoughts, feedback, ideas, Anna? 1337 01:25:35,220 --> 01:25:39,720 [Anna] Yeah, going off of that with the graduate students, 1338 01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:43,030 developing some sort of snow monitoring lab 1339 01:25:44,130 --> 01:25:45,370 that I guess 1340 01:25:49,020 --> 01:25:50,820 could work across all institutions 1341 01:25:50,820 --> 01:25:53,343 that are involved with this would be really cool. 1342 01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:57,630 Or maybe specific to one or the other 1343 01:25:57,630 --> 01:25:59,880 that sometimes works together. 1344 01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:03,120 But, yeah, I think collaboration across research 1345 01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:04,830 is really important, I think. 1346 01:26:04,830 --> 01:26:05,873 [Participant] Or here's another, 1347 01:26:05,873 --> 01:26:08,340 maybe a different way of thinking about that, 1348 01:26:08,340 --> 01:26:11,400 is if you're gonna do the summer meeting 1349 01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:12,630 I think we're gonna do, 1350 01:26:12,630 --> 01:26:14,550 to bring groups together and think about this 1351 01:26:14,550 --> 01:26:18,330 building into that graduate student component 1352 01:26:18,330 --> 01:26:22,110 where they would have an opportunity to share their research 1353 01:26:22,110 --> 01:26:24,180 with each other, and to 1354 01:26:24,180 --> 01:26:29,180 the environmental monitoring professionals. 1355 01:26:33,480 --> 01:26:36,210 But certainly participating in the network with each other 1356 01:26:36,210 --> 01:26:37,620 and helping 'em, some of the 1357 01:26:37,620 --> 01:26:39,900 environmental monitoring community and management community 1358 01:26:39,900 --> 01:26:41,853 understand where the science is. 1359 01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:43,973 [Dr. Benes] Yeah. 1360 01:26:45,868 --> 01:26:47,910 [Participant] Yeah, I have no background in this. 1361 01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:50,130 So this would maybe just be from 1362 01:26:50,130 --> 01:26:51,680 the general public perspective. 1363 01:26:52,890 --> 01:26:55,969 And my brain is shutting off, so hopefully I don't... 1364 01:26:55,969 --> 01:26:58,017 (audio interference) 1365 01:26:58,017 --> 01:27:01,890 But thinking about that overlap and the duplication, 1366 01:27:01,890 --> 01:27:03,893 this is gonna be an amazing amount of information 1367 01:27:03,893 --> 01:27:05,253 for the public, 1368 01:27:06,270 --> 01:27:08,550 but if you have it coming from one network 1369 01:27:08,550 --> 01:27:10,530 and another network where you need a link 1370 01:27:10,530 --> 01:27:12,510 and the public goes from this site to that site, 1371 01:27:12,510 --> 01:27:14,768 and they don't know that they're two separate networks, 1372 01:27:14,768 --> 01:27:17,580 and you're graphically showing it in different ways, 1373 01:27:17,580 --> 01:27:19,050 that gets confusing. 1374 01:27:19,050 --> 01:27:21,180 So I would just say making sure 1375 01:27:21,180 --> 01:27:24,240 that from the public perspective, it's integrated. 1376 01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:25,622 The public doesn't need to know 1377 01:27:25,622 --> 01:27:27,610 that they're two separate networks. 1378 01:27:27,610 --> 01:27:29,430 Just don't even go there. 1379 01:27:29,430 --> 01:27:30,510 So does that make sense? 1380 01:27:30,510 --> 01:27:31,343 [Dr. Benes] Yeah, that makes sense. 1381 01:27:31,343 --> 01:27:34,380 And I think one of the challenges is that NESS would be 1382 01:27:34,380 --> 01:27:37,110 this federal network that would exist, 1383 01:27:37,110 --> 01:27:39,840 maybe more regionally but based and focused, 1384 01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:44,749 while this network would be maybe digging a little deeper 1385 01:27:44,749 --> 01:27:48,120 and focusing on high elevation areas 1386 01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:53,100 but also be managed by academic and nonprofit institutions. 1387 01:27:53,100 --> 01:27:57,603 So that's thinking about how to best collaborate, 1388 01:27:58,440 --> 01:28:01,530 and be able to produce something that's beneficial 1389 01:28:01,530 --> 01:28:04,500 for multiple stakeholders across the region. 1390 01:28:04,500 --> 01:28:06,150 [Participant] I would just add, Josh, 1391 01:28:06,150 --> 01:28:08,580 you were saying, we had 22-sites, 1392 01:28:08,580 --> 01:28:09,870 qualify those sites 1393 01:28:09,870 --> 01:28:12,630 'cause of three or four of 'em 1394 01:28:12,630 --> 01:28:15,360 are collecting a lot of different parameters. 1395 01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,510 Some of 'em have been there for 50-years 1396 01:28:18,510 --> 01:28:21,390 and some of them have been there for two-years. 1397 01:28:21,390 --> 01:28:23,640 Some of them are collecting snow data and precipitation, 1398 01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:24,473 some aren't. 1399 01:28:25,650 --> 01:28:28,590 And the long-term data sets, 1400 01:28:28,590 --> 01:28:32,010 there's a lot to be said about having a history 1401 01:28:32,010 --> 01:28:35,163 behind the site and quality control, 1402 01:28:37,219 --> 01:28:39,120 and that sort of thing. 1403 01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:40,320 [Dr. Benes] Great idea. 1404 01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:42,330 [Participant] Build on Tuesday, 1405 01:28:42,330 --> 01:28:43,920 all of that, keep kind of reminding you, 1406 01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:44,910 I feel like, yes, there is 1407 01:28:44,910 --> 01:28:46,240 duplication and overlap 1408 01:28:47,437 --> 01:28:50,100 and for the reasons you stated, 1409 01:28:50,100 --> 01:28:53,790 that's very common in research 1410 01:28:53,790 --> 01:28:55,500 and especially environmental research, 1411 01:28:55,500 --> 01:28:58,183 but money's limited, people are limited, 1412 01:28:58,183 --> 01:28:59,507 capacity's limited 1413 01:28:59,507 --> 01:29:02,083 collaboration's the only way we're going to get 1414 01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:06,240 the variety we need, the intensity we need. 1415 01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:11,240 So more time spent figuring out how to make that possible 1416 01:29:11,910 --> 01:29:13,170 across all those entities. 1417 01:29:13,170 --> 01:29:14,190 [Dr. Benes] Exactly, yeah. 1418 01:29:14,190 --> 01:29:15,630 [Participant] It reduces the need to spend 1419 01:29:15,630 --> 01:29:17,280 as much time on all the other stuff 1420 01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:18,540 we've already talked about. 1421 01:29:18,540 --> 01:29:21,968 [Dr. Benes] Yeah, awesome. 1422 01:29:21,968 --> 01:29:23,298 Well I think we're outta time here. 1423 01:29:23,298 --> 01:29:27,060 So really appreciate all of your contributions here today. 1424 01:29:27,060 --> 01:29:29,880 Thank you so much, and please feel free to continue 1425 01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:31,890 the discussion. 1426 01:29:31,890 --> 01:29:33,060 My contact information 1427 01:29:33,060 --> 01:29:35,073 and Erika's contact information as well. 1428 01:29:35,910 --> 01:29:37,443 Yeah, thank you so much.