1 00:00:08,130 --> 00:00:10,790 - Welcome everybody to the final talk 2 00:00:10,790 --> 00:00:14,670 in the Forest as Natural Climate Solutions track. 3 00:00:14,670 --> 00:00:17,360 This is Jim Shallow and this is his talk, 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,960 Carbon Cents, Markets for Conservation. 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,640 Jim is from the Nature Conservancy in Vermont, 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,570 and we'll do 15 minutes for Jim 7 00:00:24,570 --> 00:00:26,920 and then five minutes for questions at the end. 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,940 - Thank you, Naomi and welcome everybody. 9 00:00:30,940 --> 00:00:33,270 As Naomi said, I'm the Conservation Director 10 00:00:33,270 --> 00:00:36,270 with the Nature Conservancy's Vermont Chapter. 11 00:00:36,270 --> 00:00:38,730 The Nature Conservancy is protecting lands and waters 12 00:00:38,730 --> 00:00:40,590 on which all life depends. 13 00:00:40,590 --> 00:00:42,690 And what I wanted to talk about today 14 00:00:42,690 --> 00:00:46,870 is about how we are using carbon markets here in Vermont 15 00:00:46,870 --> 00:00:50,900 to advance conservation goals that both the State of Vermont 16 00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:54,620 and TNC have to protecting our landscape 17 00:00:54,620 --> 00:00:57,690 to make sure that it's resilient and connected for wildlife 18 00:00:57,690 --> 00:01:00,543 and people going forward in the face of climate change. 19 00:01:01,380 --> 00:01:02,960 So I want to set a little context first 20 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,500 then I'll talk about three different projects 21 00:01:05,500 --> 00:01:08,280 and hopefully wrap this all up in 15 minutes 22 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,623 and take as many questions as possible. 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,800 So just important sort of way to think about this, 24 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,300 the way we're looking at things now 25 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:18,520 at the Nature Conservancy 26 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:23,430 is we're facing two existential crises at the global level. 27 00:01:23,430 --> 00:01:27,000 We have a climate crisis where we've seen a rapid increase 28 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:32,000 in warming since 1950 and we are also seeing 29 00:01:32,330 --> 00:01:36,910 a rapid decrease in biodiversity. 30 00:01:36,910 --> 00:01:40,400 And what we're learning too is that we can't try 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,330 to solve each of these problems in absence 32 00:01:43,330 --> 00:01:45,440 of thinking about the other one. 33 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,080 The International Governmental Panel on Climate Change 34 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,170 and the Intergovernmental Platform on Biodiversity 35 00:01:51,170 --> 00:01:55,320 and Ecosystem Services released a report earlier this year 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,820 and they're finding really was, if you want to boil it down 37 00:01:58,820 --> 00:02:02,710 was limiting global warming to ensure habitable climate 38 00:02:02,710 --> 00:02:06,370 and protecting biodiversity are mutually supportive goals 39 00:02:06,370 --> 00:02:09,240 and their achievement is essential to sustainably 40 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,520 and equitably providing benefits to people. 41 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,190 So can't solve one without the other 42 00:02:14,190 --> 00:02:18,010 and our nature is a way to do that. 43 00:02:18,010 --> 00:02:23,010 So forests are a critical natural climate solution. 44 00:02:25,112 --> 00:02:27,490 The way we manage our lands across the landscape, 45 00:02:27,490 --> 00:02:30,550 both in terms of wildlands and manage Woodlands 46 00:02:30,550 --> 00:02:33,430 can play a role in both enhancing climate, 47 00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:36,920 I mean enhancing the carbon being stored there, 48 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:39,840 but it also plays a critical role in bringing carbon 49 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,420 out of the atmosphere and improving habitat 50 00:02:42,420 --> 00:02:44,350 across the landscape. 51 00:02:44,350 --> 00:02:47,870 So we're looking at this from a Vermont perspective, 52 00:02:47,870 --> 00:02:52,400 we have done mapping that shows a network of lands 53 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,230 that we call the resilient connecting network. 54 00:02:54,230 --> 00:02:56,863 It overlaps very closely with Vermont's, 55 00:02:59,630 --> 00:03:04,630 the VCD conservation design and protecting this 56 00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:08,360 it really is looking to forest blocks 57 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,240 as a way to protect that and the resilient connected network 58 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,030 in Vermont it's 53% of our state 59 00:03:15,030 --> 00:03:19,170 yet it's only 38% protected and we don't see 60 00:03:19,170 --> 00:03:22,500 a lot of dollars going into climate 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,563 or natural solutions right now. 62 00:03:26,605 --> 00:03:28,220 And yet we know that at a global level, 63 00:03:28,220 --> 00:03:33,220 about 30% of the reductions and storage of carbon 64 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,850 that needed to be done can be done 65 00:03:35,850 --> 00:03:37,770 through natural climate solutions 66 00:03:37,770 --> 00:03:40,150 and much of that is in forest. 67 00:03:40,150 --> 00:03:43,130 So protecting forest, managing timber lands is better 68 00:03:43,130 --> 00:03:45,460 and restoring forests make up a big bulk 69 00:03:45,460 --> 00:03:48,040 of what we need to do or can use 70 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,480 for natural climate solutions 71 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:54,480 to get us to that 30 gigatons of year of carbon emissions 72 00:03:55,580 --> 00:03:57,340 that needs to happen if we're gonna meet 73 00:03:57,340 --> 00:04:02,340 the Paris Accords goal of keeping the temperature increases 74 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,053 below two degrees Celsius. 75 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,850 So out of this with only about 2% 76 00:04:11,850 --> 00:04:14,100 of the fund's net globally going 77 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:18,020 to natural climate solutions and even here in Vermont, 78 00:04:18,020 --> 00:04:21,240 the Vermont Housing and Conservation Trust Fund 79 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,560 generally gets an appropriation 80 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,690 of around 10 to $13 million a year recently, 81 00:04:25,690 --> 00:04:27,900 and only 1.5 million of that is going 82 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:29,950 into natural area protection. 83 00:04:29,950 --> 00:04:33,850 So carbon markets can play a huge role we believe 84 00:04:33,850 --> 00:04:37,200 in helping close the gap and secure lands 85 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,823 to avoid forest loss. 86 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,150 So when you hear about carbon markets 87 00:04:42,150 --> 00:04:44,270 there's two kind of tracks in those. 88 00:04:44,270 --> 00:04:45,940 There's the voluntary market. 89 00:04:45,940 --> 00:04:50,940 These are where big companies, government bodies, 90 00:04:51,550 --> 00:04:53,780 individuals are buying credits 91 00:04:53,780 --> 00:04:57,250 to offset their carbon footprint. 92 00:04:57,250 --> 00:04:59,830 And then there's a compliance market of which cap 93 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:02,780 the biggest one here in North America 94 00:05:02,780 --> 00:05:05,550 is the California Air Resources Board 95 00:05:05,550 --> 00:05:10,550 and they have a cap and trade system out in California 96 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,560 that allows companies to stay under their cap 97 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:20,070 by buying carbon credits. 98 00:05:20,070 --> 00:05:22,920 So I'm gonna talk largely about the voluntary markets 99 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,290 because what we've learned here through our experience 100 00:05:25,290 --> 00:05:29,080 with projects is that doing compliance projects 101 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,613 is very difficult in our forest system. 102 00:05:33,220 --> 00:05:37,950 So there's three sort of big carbon projects 103 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:38,783 that we've been looking at. 104 00:05:38,783 --> 00:05:42,803 These are traditional large forest carbon project. 105 00:05:43,950 --> 00:05:47,490 For us I'm gonna talk about our Burnt Mountain Project. 106 00:05:47,490 --> 00:05:49,440 We also have another one that we're developing 107 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,790 in Southern Vermont called 108 00:05:51,790 --> 00:05:53,540 the Southern Vermont Forestry Project 109 00:05:53,540 --> 00:05:56,010 which involves a parcel that we acquired 110 00:05:56,010 --> 00:05:58,940 a few years ago in Wyndham. 111 00:05:58,940 --> 00:06:01,190 And then the Forest Carbon Co-ops 112 00:06:01,190 --> 00:06:04,550 which is an aggregation approach to developing projects 113 00:06:04,550 --> 00:06:07,520 and then lastly the Family Forest Carbon Program, 114 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,670 which my colleague Chris Zimmerman talked about 115 00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:11,163 in an earlier session. 116 00:06:12,710 --> 00:06:14,683 So the Burnt Mountain Carbon Project. 117 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:18,540 Well wait before I want to get into, 118 00:06:18,540 --> 00:06:20,470 I just wanted to say that the voluntary markets 119 00:06:20,470 --> 00:06:25,470 are a growing source of income for conservation. 120 00:06:25,970 --> 00:06:29,990 We are seeing a big increase, even this year 121 00:06:29,990 --> 00:06:34,990 we're 27% higher than last year and the market price 122 00:06:35,090 --> 00:06:38,910 is moving upwards to around an averaging around $14 a ton 123 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:43,403 for North American high quality forest carbon projects. 124 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,980 So Burnt Mountain is our biggest project 125 00:06:48,980 --> 00:06:50,230 that we've done to date. 126 00:06:50,230 --> 00:06:52,130 It's 5,400 acres. 127 00:06:52,130 --> 00:06:54,290 We acquired this land in 2018. 128 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:02,363 When we bought it, it was a $2.6 million project. 129 00:07:03,207 --> 00:07:05,847 We raised about a million dollars to cover that 130 00:07:05,847 --> 00:07:09,300 and we are looking to carbon income to help offset 131 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:14,300 the rest of that project acquisition. 132 00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:17,730 Our modeling that we've done with Bluesource 133 00:07:17,730 --> 00:07:20,190 and the project development working with our partners 134 00:07:20,190 --> 00:07:22,480 at Bluesource we believe that we can raise 135 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,360 about $1.9 million in potential revenue coming off 136 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,360 of 274,000 credits that would be generated. 137 00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:35,200 So the reason we acquired Burnt Mountain 138 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:36,310 is that it's in the middle 139 00:07:36,310 --> 00:07:39,680 of a large 11,000 acre forest block 140 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,010 that's largely conserved by state lands 141 00:07:42,010 --> 00:07:45,500 and other conserve properties and it was an opportunity 142 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:49,790 for us to move this property out of a managed land 143 00:07:49,790 --> 00:07:52,390 into a forever wild category. 144 00:07:52,390 --> 00:07:55,290 And the reason we were doing the forever wild approach 145 00:07:55,290 --> 00:08:00,020 was that Vermont has set a goal of 9% of our forest being 146 00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:04,460 in late successional condition and yet we're only 147 00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:08,090 at about 3.2% at the time we acquired this property. 148 00:08:08,090 --> 00:08:10,920 So we wanted to add to that and it's a large property 149 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,980 so it's gonna be resilient in the face of climate change 150 00:08:13,980 --> 00:08:16,970 and will allow nature to move forward 151 00:08:16,970 --> 00:08:19,160 and kind of have disturbances happen 152 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,893 yet be able to bounce back from those disturbances. 153 00:08:24,580 --> 00:08:29,580 In addition to doing the forever wild project on it, 154 00:08:30,290 --> 00:08:32,240 we've also it gave us the opportunity 155 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,170 to do some fresh water restoration. 156 00:08:35,170 --> 00:08:36,690 Part of the property is 90% 157 00:08:36,690 --> 00:08:38,880 of it is in the Calavale watershed. 158 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,060 This is a headwater stream that feeds 159 00:08:41,060 --> 00:08:43,110 into the Memorial basin which then feeds 160 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:46,090 into Lake Champlain, providing drinking water 161 00:08:46,090 --> 00:08:49,380 for 250,000 people. 162 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:54,230 This stream had a lot of its woody material removed 163 00:08:54,230 --> 00:08:59,230 once upon a time and so we started a project to add wood 164 00:08:59,540 --> 00:09:03,570 to the stream to help it retain water better 165 00:09:03,570 --> 00:09:06,060 in the more flashy precipitation events 166 00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:08,920 that we're seeing as a result of climate change, 167 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,770 increase habitat for fish species like brook trout, 168 00:09:13,770 --> 00:09:17,810 and generally overall increase the value of the stream 169 00:09:17,810 --> 00:09:20,760 for habitat and for flood retention. 170 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,350 So the carbon dollars are all allowing all of this work 171 00:09:24,350 --> 00:09:27,960 to happen and so it's been an important opportunity 172 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,453 for us to do this project. 173 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,960 So what have we done to date so far 174 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,543 on the carbon side of things. 175 00:09:36,380 --> 00:09:41,020 We are projecting to generate 247,000 credits 176 00:09:41,020 --> 00:09:42,500 over the next 10 years. 177 00:09:42,500 --> 00:09:47,500 To date the American Carbon Registry has issued 178 00:09:48,350 --> 00:09:52,370 where we have this project registered 99,000 credits. 179 00:09:52,370 --> 00:09:55,723 We've sold 74,800 of those. 180 00:09:56,870 --> 00:10:00,230 The vast majority of those have been retired so far 181 00:10:00,230 --> 00:10:02,670 as offset that companies want 182 00:10:02,670 --> 00:10:07,670 and we have a pending sale 2000 credits. 183 00:10:08,130 --> 00:10:12,470 This has resulted in about $550,000 in net revenue 184 00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:16,233 for our chapter to cover the cost of this project to date. 185 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,410 So there are also other emerging opportunities. 186 00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:25,950 So these large projects are gonna be few and far 187 00:10:25,950 --> 00:10:28,920 between in Vermont just given the parcelized landscape 188 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,093 that we have. 189 00:10:30,093 --> 00:10:35,080 So we started looking at opportunities to do carbon co-ops. 190 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,750 This is an aggregation approach. 191 00:10:36,750 --> 00:10:38,210 So I'm going to talk about that next 192 00:10:38,210 --> 00:10:41,260 and then the Family Forest Carbon Program. 193 00:10:41,260 --> 00:10:44,150 So why are we looking at these smaller opportunities? 194 00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:47,420 It's really important because most of Vermont 195 00:10:47,420 --> 00:10:51,313 is family forest and owned in small parcels. 196 00:10:53,290 --> 00:10:56,780 Individuals and families own the largest portion 197 00:10:56,780 --> 00:10:57,850 of US forest. 198 00:10:57,850 --> 00:11:00,710 Family forest make up 38% of our forest 199 00:11:00,710 --> 00:11:01,930 in the United States. 200 00:11:01,930 --> 00:11:05,560 That's more than the federal or government or corporations. 201 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:08,240 And yet this is an important ownership group 202 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,970 that's vital to achieving conservation impact at scale. 203 00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:15,000 And here in Vermont those numbers play out as well 204 00:11:15,860 --> 00:11:19,430 with over 78% of our forest in private ownership 205 00:11:20,410 --> 00:11:23,710 and the average parcel size here in Vermont 206 00:11:23,710 --> 00:11:25,770 that's enrolled in the current use program 207 00:11:25,770 --> 00:11:30,770 is 117 acres versus about 69 acres 208 00:11:31,770 --> 00:11:34,280 of non current use properties. 209 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:35,800 So getting to these ownerships, 210 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,130 we believe is gonna be an important part of conserving 211 00:11:38,130 --> 00:11:41,010 that resilient, connected network and we believe that carbon 212 00:11:41,010 --> 00:11:44,300 can help those landowners hold onto those lands 213 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:45,213 for the future. 214 00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:48,700 And yet most of these land ownerships 215 00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:51,163 they've been locked out of these markets. 216 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:56,620 You'll see that less than 1% of the projects to date 217 00:11:56,620 --> 00:11:58,780 have involved ownerships 218 00:11:58,780 --> 00:12:01,970 that were less than a thousand acres. 219 00:12:01,970 --> 00:12:05,090 So it's important to begin to make these markets 220 00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:07,180 more equitable for landers. 221 00:12:07,180 --> 00:12:09,660 So we've partnered with the Vermont Land Trust 222 00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:13,880 who took on a really unique project in the Northern Greens. 223 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,970 This is a critical wildlife corridor 224 00:12:15,970 --> 00:12:18,800 that links the Green Mountains into Canada. 225 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,050 And after a feasibility study 226 00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:23,440 that the Vermont Land trust did that showed 227 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,853 that this was a possibility to aggregate projects together. 228 00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:32,147 VLT teamed up with The Nature Conservancy 229 00:12:32,147 --> 00:12:34,880 and the Spatial Informatics Group to develop 230 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,010 a pilot of an aggregation project and then worked 231 00:12:38,010 --> 00:12:38,880 with the Cold Hollow 232 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,840 to Canada Regional Conservation Partnership 233 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,560 to find a way to develop the project. 234 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,560 So to date, as I mentioned, 235 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:53,560 so what emerged out of this was 8,543 acres enrolled 236 00:12:54,580 --> 00:12:59,360 in the ACR registry, 10 landowners managing 12 woodlots 237 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,590 and we'll be doing that with the eye towards enhancing 238 00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:06,230 the carbon but also that's gonna maintain the landscape 239 00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:09,460 for wildlife conductivity and help improve 240 00:13:09,460 --> 00:13:11,500 the forest condition for wildlife 241 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:15,300 and for the future timber value and that as well. 242 00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:20,300 Project is estimated to generate 429,000 credits 243 00:13:21,810 --> 00:13:23,940 over the next 10 years. 244 00:13:23,940 --> 00:13:28,930 To date we've sold about 200,000 of those credits 245 00:13:28,930 --> 00:13:33,500 in a presale to Amazon and that's resulting 246 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:38,500 in 70% of that net revenue going back to the land owners. 247 00:13:38,670 --> 00:13:41,650 So we believe it's a successful pilot. 248 00:13:41,650 --> 00:13:44,490 We're still continuing to market the additional, 249 00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:46,600 the other credits that have not been sold yet 250 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,250 and we'll be looking for opportunities 251 00:13:48,250 --> 00:13:51,240 to potentially do new co-ops going forward 252 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,240 once we feel sort of that we've wrapped this project up. 253 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:00,400 The other approach we're taking now is also recognizing 254 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,090 that that program carbon aggregation really requires parcels 255 00:14:04,090 --> 00:14:08,040 of about 200 acres upwards to make that viable 256 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,480 and so we still have a lot of these smaller parcels 257 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:11,313 to get to. 258 00:14:11,313 --> 00:14:14,340 So that's where the Family Forest Carbon Program comes in. 259 00:14:14,340 --> 00:14:17,390 This is a partnership with the American Forest Foundation 260 00:14:17,390 --> 00:14:19,060 and The Nature Conservancy 261 00:14:19,060 --> 00:14:20,290 and it's a very different approach. 262 00:14:20,290 --> 00:14:25,290 It pays landowners for practices that have been modeled out 263 00:14:26,010 --> 00:14:31,010 to show we'll add more carbon over 20 years to the forest 264 00:14:32,148 --> 00:14:35,220 over common practice in the region. 265 00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:37,010 So the way that this works largely 266 00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:39,750 is that the landowner engages 267 00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:44,750 with the American Forest Foundation, they sign a contract 268 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,873 that will generally one to 20 years, 269 00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:50,453 they get a payment for that, 270 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,500 they hire a consulting forester 271 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:57,600 to implement a plan for that 272 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,580 and then that an FCP representative goes out and verifies 273 00:15:02,580 --> 00:15:05,120 the completion of the practice when it's done. 274 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,210 And there's monitoring set up across the whole region. 275 00:15:08,210 --> 00:15:11,150 Random set is modeled monitoring regularly, 276 00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:12,180 and then that's compared 277 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:15,830 to a dynamic baseline based on FIA data. 278 00:15:15,830 --> 00:15:20,810 And then once that's done, that's what the credits show up 279 00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:23,350 in the registry and those become available 280 00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:26,110 in the voluntary market for companies to purchase 281 00:15:26,110 --> 00:15:30,780 and then that income goes back into the project to cover 282 00:15:32,205 --> 00:15:34,250 the initial payment that went into the landowners 283 00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:39,160 so that the new landers can be enrolled over and over again. 284 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,240 And then the landowner has a commitment 285 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,343 to maintain those practices over 20 years. 286 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,690 The benefits of this on the wildlife side 287 00:15:48,690 --> 00:15:53,100 is that these practices mirror very closely 288 00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:56,370 with habitat practices, 289 00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:59,260 things like the Forest Bird Initiative that Audubon 290 00:15:59,260 --> 00:16:02,903 has been managing both in Vermont and throughout the region. 291 00:16:03,950 --> 00:16:06,490 These practices like expanding gaps 292 00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:09,660 with retaining large diameter trees 293 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:11,990 and woody debris in there is beneficial 294 00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:15,830 for creating understory habitat for forest birds. 295 00:16:15,830 --> 00:16:19,920 The thinnings will create complexity within the forest 296 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,470 and diversity in that forest type 297 00:16:21,470 --> 00:16:24,900 which we beneficial for these forest birds 298 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:28,500 and then other wildlife philosophy benefit 299 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:31,400 from these practices as well as allowing the forest 300 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,500 to grow larger trees and create more snags 301 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,120 and down woody debris. 302 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,220 We believe all of these practices 303 00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:41,140 that will have a carbon benefit 304 00:16:41,140 --> 00:16:44,860 will also have some co-benefits for wildlife. 305 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:49,820 So that was a lot to cover in 11 minutes. 306 00:16:49,820 --> 00:16:54,220 And if you want to learn more about these practices, 307 00:16:54,220 --> 00:16:56,750 there's a guide that we've put out, 308 00:16:56,750 --> 00:17:01,270 it's a healthy forest guide. 309 00:17:01,270 --> 00:17:06,270 This will provide 10, 12 different ways for landowners 310 00:17:06,450 --> 00:17:10,480 and the others to see practices that will add carbon, 311 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,710 it also describes the wildlife benefits for those. 312 00:17:13,710 --> 00:17:16,280 There's a link here that you can find that, 313 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,460 or you can just Google that and you'll find that 314 00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:22,300 on the TNC website, 315 00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:26,210 that's nature.org/climatesmartforestry. 316 00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:28,210 And then if you want to learn more about the work 317 00:17:28,210 --> 00:17:31,760 that we're doing here in Vermont on carbon, 318 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,760 you can go to the nature.org website and under the Vermont, 319 00:17:36,770 --> 00:17:39,810 you'll find stories in a forest carbon page. 320 00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:43,303 So there's a lot to cover in a few minutes, 321 00:17:44,540 --> 00:17:48,130 I guess my closing remarks are, we see that carbon markets 322 00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:53,130 can be a way to create new revenue for conservation 323 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:58,160 and add co-benefits for wildlife along the way 324 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,450 and we'll continue working to promote 325 00:18:01,450 --> 00:18:04,730 the Vermont's Climate Action Plan 326 00:18:04,730 --> 00:18:08,260 that was approved a few weeks ago. 327 00:18:08,260 --> 00:18:12,440 References a lot of strategies for improving forest carbon 328 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,050 and I encourage you to look into that more 329 00:18:16,050 --> 00:18:18,920 and as we move forward in Vermont 330 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,150 to address our climate crisis and the biodiversity crisis. 331 00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:27,983 So thank you for your listening to me and Naomi, 332 00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:30,563 I'll open it up to questions. 333 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,280 - Yeah, people can feel free to put questions in the chat. 334 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,900 I had a question actually, that you mentioned early on 335 00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:41,280 that the California compliance projects are, 336 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,770 I think you said difficult in our forest systems 337 00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:44,603 and I was just wondering 338 00:18:44,603 --> 00:18:46,380 if you could explain that a little further. 339 00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:48,020 - Yeah, Thank you. That's a good question. 340 00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:51,120 So the way that California has set up their baseline 341 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,723 for these projects is it uses a regional stocking. 342 00:18:56,130 --> 00:18:58,520 As soon as the regional baseline is established based 343 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,330 on the super sections that the forest services established. 344 00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:05,610 And so our stocking in our region is fairly high. 345 00:19:05,610 --> 00:19:08,960 So to be able to show the additional carbon that's there, 346 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,060 you have to have a really highly stocked forest 347 00:19:13,060 --> 00:19:16,870 as well as have enough acres to sort of get that number up 348 00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:20,770 to make the project financially viable. 349 00:19:20,770 --> 00:19:23,720 I will say that all of these projects have significant costs 350 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,780 that goes into both development 351 00:19:25,780 --> 00:19:28,390 on these traditional forest projects 352 00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:30,450 as well as ongoing monitoring. 353 00:19:30,450 --> 00:19:33,777 So to get enough of a delta between that regional baseline 354 00:19:33,777 --> 00:19:37,270 and the carbon that's there to generate enough credits 355 00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:39,560 to make the project viable. 356 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,560 What we're seeing is probably a minimum of about 5,000 acres 357 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,980 is what you're gonna need here in the region. 358 00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:50,850 And what we initially went try to enroll Burnt Mountain 359 00:19:50,850 --> 00:19:51,970 in the compliance market 360 00:19:51,970 --> 00:19:54,110 and when we did our carbon inventory, 361 00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:57,400 we found out there just wasn't enough carbon onsite. 362 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,020 The difference in the voluntary market 363 00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:01,470 at least with the ACR approaches, 364 00:20:01,470 --> 00:20:04,390 they don't model on a regional baseline largely it's modeled 365 00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:05,880 on a project baseline. 366 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,880 So you look at a counterfactual potential harvest scenario 367 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,620 that could happen on the property 368 00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:15,440 and then what you're gonna do going forward 369 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,440 and that's how you generate the credits. 370 00:20:18,730 --> 00:20:19,980 - Gotcha. Thank you. 371 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:21,870 And we have a few questions coming in in the chat, 372 00:20:21,870 --> 00:20:24,090 but maybe we have time for one 373 00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:25,430 and then if you want hang around 374 00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:27,093 in this meeting space you can. 375 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,697 Somebody said, excellent talk, thank you. 376 00:20:30,697 --> 00:20:33,680 Can you explain retired carbon credits? 377 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,510 - Yeah, So in all of these, so when a company 378 00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:42,510 has a climate strategy to go carbon neutral for instance, 379 00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:45,040 they will do everything they can internally 380 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,210 to lower their costs and capture 381 00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:49,860 as much of that within their own operating. 382 00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:54,090 And then for many of them there's still that last little bit 383 00:20:54,090 --> 00:20:56,270 that they just can't get to neutral 384 00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:58,630 and so they buy the credits to do that. 385 00:20:58,630 --> 00:21:02,670 So when they buy those, they retire the credit. 386 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:05,760 And so that nobody else they can't trade that credit 387 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,060 to another company to take advantage of those. 388 00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:12,140 These credits are put aside and they're no longer available 389 00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:15,630 for use as a carbon offset and they're retired 390 00:21:15,630 --> 00:21:19,920 and the registry tracks those and it's sort of off the books 391 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,200 and we can't do any double counting from that. 392 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,420 So that's how the retiring goes. 393 00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:28,330 The difference you'll see in our numbers at Burnt Mountain 394 00:21:28,330 --> 00:21:31,990 is we have a couple of sales that have gone 395 00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:35,760 where companies there's like one tree planted 396 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,480 is one of the purchaser of these credits 397 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,510 and they use these along with their tree planting projects 398 00:21:40,510 --> 00:21:44,030 to improve the carbon benefits of those projects 399 00:21:44,030 --> 00:21:45,390 and they retire those 400 00:21:45,390 --> 00:21:47,890 as those planting projects go in place. 401 00:21:47,890 --> 00:21:51,463 So eventually all those credits will be retired as well. 402 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,983 - Hi, Jim, I have a question for you if you can share. 403 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:57,923 - Yeah I can hear you. 404 00:21:57,923 --> 00:21:59,140 - All right. Great. 405 00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:01,390 Thanks for the great talk really interesting. 406 00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:07,530 I own manage 50 forest acres at Central Vermont 407 00:22:07,530 --> 00:22:10,430 that's enrolled in current use. 408 00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:13,523 So based on this program that you're talking about, 409 00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:17,160 family forest something, sorry. 410 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,560 - Family Forest Carbon. Yep. 411 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:21,010 - So you basically saying 412 00:22:21,010 --> 00:22:24,880 that there is a agreed upon management plans 413 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,890 for the state of Vermont at which if I wanted to enroll 414 00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:32,020 in this well are there options to do that now 415 00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:35,640 and what I then need to hire a consulting forester 416 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,540 to update my plan to enroll this or how. 417 00:22:39,540 --> 00:22:41,500 I'm just kinda curious, are there options 418 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:44,040 for local Vermont land owners now? 419 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,020 And what does that mean 420 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:48,180 in terms of their current use and so forth? 421 00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:49,710 - Yeah. Good question. 422 00:22:49,710 --> 00:22:54,420 So Aaron, the way we first, you will have the opportunity. 423 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:55,420 We're developing 424 00:22:55,420 --> 00:22:57,520 sort of putting all the pieces together right now 425 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,180 with our target is to start enrollments 426 00:23:01,180 --> 00:23:04,860 in Family Forest Carbon later this spring 427 00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:06,280 or in the upcoming spring. 428 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,280 So keep an eye out for that. Your 50 acres could qualify. 429 00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:14,900 We will be making payments 430 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,750 in sort of maple beach hardwood type. 431 00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:21,270 That's what we've modeled out the benefits for. 432 00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:26,270 And what will happen is you will say, yes I'm interested, 433 00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:30,010 a representative from the Family Forest Carbon Program 434 00:23:30,010 --> 00:23:30,850 will meet with you. 435 00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:32,260 If you have a management plan, 436 00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:35,300 we'll review that management plan to see 437 00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:37,760 if we need to make any changes to that, 438 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,700 to follow the practices that we've developed. 439 00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:42,690 You may have to amend that plan 440 00:23:42,690 --> 00:23:45,810 and if so, there may be payments available for you do that 441 00:23:45,810 --> 00:23:48,100 and then you would get an upfront payment 442 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:50,470 where you sign a contract saying 443 00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:53,070 I commit to following these practices 444 00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:55,580 and you'll get a payment that will go out. 445 00:23:55,580 --> 00:23:57,820 There's like an upfront payment and then regular payments 446 00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:59,343 through the contract period. 447 00:24:01,380 --> 00:24:02,647 - Very interesting. Okay, thanks very much. 448 00:24:02,647 --> 00:24:06,640 - And our hope is that it will be very synchronous 449 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,740 with current use practices as well. 450 00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:13,290 We've been in many conversations with Keith Thompson 451 00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:16,360 and others at the forestry division to make sure 452 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:18,183 that there aren't conflicts there. 453 00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:21,660 - Okay and that was kinda what I was wondering about 454 00:24:21,660 --> 00:24:24,130 because just within a lot of those plans 455 00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:26,960 there is definitely some periodic cutting, 456 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,320 seeing and so forth and but which I think can be beneficial 457 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,270 for meeting multiple management objectives so. 458 00:24:33,270 --> 00:24:35,700 - Yeah, and just to be clear that the practices 459 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:37,360 will allow for harvesting. 460 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,063 So the ones we're looking at our grow older forest, 461 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,170 so that's sort of maybe delaying your harvest out 462 00:24:43,170 --> 00:24:46,260 and then creating gaps with some complexity 463 00:24:46,260 --> 00:24:49,923 and thinnings and while retaining carbon in the forest. 464 00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:54,020 - Thanks very much for the information. Great talk. 465 00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:56,110 - Sure, thanks. Thanks for your interest. 466 00:24:56,110 --> 00:24:59,960 - I was just wondering about soils and soil management 467 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,930 and wondering if there were any practices 468 00:25:02,930 --> 00:25:07,080 that were part of the forest that are being managed 469 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,860 for carbon storage that were specific to soils 470 00:25:09,860 --> 00:25:14,240 or newly developed BMPs for soils to protect the carbon 471 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,110 that's in the property in the soil. 472 00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:20,300 - Yeah, we haven't modeled the practices out 473 00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:22,130 for soil carbon. 474 00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:24,650 We believe hopefully like for instance, 475 00:25:24,650 --> 00:25:27,090 in the delayed harvest kind of approach, 476 00:25:27,090 --> 00:25:29,620 that's gonna help build for soils over time, 477 00:25:29,620 --> 00:25:33,600 but we didn't do intentional modeling around that, 478 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,210 just given the complexities and what we know some. 479 00:25:37,210 --> 00:25:40,970 So maybe more to come as we start to get this going 480 00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:42,720 but not right now. 481 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,190 - Okay, great. Thank you. 482 00:25:44,190 --> 00:25:45,800 - Good question. 483 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,030 The soil seems to be the question 484 00:25:48,030 --> 00:25:49,010 that's always coming up 485 00:25:49,010 --> 00:25:51,040 in all of these carbon conversations 486 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,120 and I don't think we've really been able to fully wrap 487 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,280 our head around how we do that. 488 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,110 The way ACR handles it in the traditional projects 489 00:25:59,110 --> 00:26:03,230 is they just kind of, they assign a number for soils 490 00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:05,180 and they give it to you. 491 00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:08,070 It's just a flat, simple number that they say, 492 00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:11,090 if you have these conditions you anticipate 493 00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:13,770 to have this much carbon stored in the soils. 494 00:26:13,770 --> 00:26:16,260 - And is that at least parsed out by like 495 00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:18,970 a wetland soil versus an upland soil? 496 00:26:18,970 --> 00:26:20,793 No, it's just soil. Okay. 497 00:26:21,690 --> 00:26:23,063 - Yeah. - All right. 498 00:26:24,260 --> 00:26:26,710 - I don't know all the black box calculations 499 00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:28,400 for how they with that number. 500 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,243 Yeah. - Yeah. 501 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,890 - I'm curious if TNC has been working 502 00:26:32,890 --> 00:26:35,470 to develop like guidelines and processes 503 00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:38,440 that could be distributed to other land trusts 504 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,876 or other conservation organizations 505 00:26:40,876 --> 00:26:43,150 to try to replicate some of this. 506 00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:47,210 I think focusing more on like 507 00:26:47,210 --> 00:26:51,500 the big sea conservation projects perhaps 508 00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:54,950 more so than the family forest projects. 509 00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:58,640 - We haven't done it yet. It's our hope is to get to that. 510 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,640 A couple things we're learning upfront is the timing 511 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,060 of if you're doing an easement on the property 512 00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:12,890 is really critical for this because any restrictions 513 00:27:12,890 --> 00:27:14,270 that you have on the property 514 00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:19,270 prior to enrolling the carbon project is gonna take away 515 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,010 from your baseline, right? 516 00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:26,010 So if you put an easement on prior to registering 517 00:27:26,140 --> 00:27:30,130 the project and that easement has restrictions 518 00:27:30,130 --> 00:27:32,240 on what kind of forestry you can do 519 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,550 or where you can do it on the landscape and all that, 520 00:27:35,550 --> 00:27:37,810 all of that needs to be factored into your baseline. 521 00:27:37,810 --> 00:27:40,120 So our advice to anybody, if you're looking 522 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,900 at a larger project is make sure you're timing that well. 523 00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:45,090 Register your project. 524 00:27:45,090 --> 00:27:46,560 You have up to a year 525 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,010 to put the easement on after that fact. 526 00:27:50,010 --> 00:27:55,010 So like when we did Burnt Mountain, we didn't finalize 527 00:27:56,740 --> 00:28:01,560 the forever wild easement until about 10 months 528 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,270 after we acquired the property and enrolled the property 529 00:28:04,270 --> 00:28:06,513 in the carbon registry. 530 00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:10,627 - Yeah, it just seems like the timing is so important 531 00:28:10,627 --> 00:28:15,170 and the steps are so kind of different 532 00:28:15,170 --> 00:28:18,630 than a traditional project that it would just be important 533 00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:21,010 to get that information out to groups 534 00:28:21,010 --> 00:28:23,700 so that they could try to replicate this. 535 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:26,870 - Yeah and then I think the other lesson that we learned 536 00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:30,303 in this is just how important it is to factor in carbon 537 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,550 into your thinking while you're doing the conservation, 538 00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:38,320 when you're planning out the conservation project. 539 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,730 Because it's really important that for all of these projects 540 00:28:41,730 --> 00:28:42,860 that you're demonstrating 541 00:28:42,860 --> 00:28:46,530 that carbon part of the additionality test 542 00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:51,370 is like was carbon revenue an important part 543 00:28:51,370 --> 00:28:54,040 of the project implementation. 544 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,350 So in our case, we couldn't have done Burnt Mountain 545 00:28:56,350 --> 00:29:00,300 or our Glebe Mountain acquisition 546 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:04,250 without bringing carbon financing into the equation. 547 00:29:04,250 --> 00:29:06,050 - Right. Great. 548 00:29:06,050 --> 00:29:07,130 Thanks, Jim. 549 00:29:07,130 --> 00:29:08,280 - Jim I had a question. 550 00:29:09,610 --> 00:29:12,330 When this is ready to roll I'm thinking specifically 551 00:29:12,330 --> 00:29:16,630 about the family, small parcel oriented programs. 552 00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:20,360 What's the capacity look like at TNC 553 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,953 or at this family forest group? 554 00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:28,003 If there's a tidal wave of interest, 555 00:29:29,010 --> 00:29:30,807 how bottlenecked are we gonna get. 556 00:29:32,010 --> 00:29:34,500 - So we have two pilots going on. 557 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,670 So the first pilot Andy is down in the Central Alps 558 00:29:37,670 --> 00:29:42,670 in Pennsylvania where there two to three years ahead of us 559 00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:46,890 in piloting this approach and you are absolutely right, 560 00:29:46,890 --> 00:29:51,890 those bottlenecks of like having foresters ready to go, 561 00:29:52,220 --> 00:29:54,950 being able to just do the quick follow-up. 562 00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:56,350 And we've learned a lot from that, 563 00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:58,860 that we need to have that capacity on the ground 564 00:29:58,860 --> 00:30:00,550 or ready to go. 565 00:30:00,550 --> 00:30:03,650 I'm really happy that AFF now has a regional coordinator 566 00:30:03,650 --> 00:30:04,483 for this project. 567 00:30:04,483 --> 00:30:09,140 Richard Campbell, who I believe is still on the line here 568 00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:12,700 and we are factoring all of that in. 569 00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:15,090 And so that's why we're taking this, hey Richard, 570 00:30:15,090 --> 00:30:16,570 this phased approach right now 571 00:30:16,570 --> 00:30:18,550 is a learning pilot right now 572 00:30:18,550 --> 00:30:21,940 which is just looking at Vermont, Western Massachusetts 573 00:30:21,940 --> 00:30:26,330 and Eastern New York, and try to manage those expectations 574 00:30:26,330 --> 00:30:27,330 as we're doing this. 575 00:30:28,644 --> 00:30:30,892 And once we learn and we start building that capacity 576 00:30:30,892 --> 00:30:32,410 that we'll be able to expand that. 577 00:30:32,410 --> 00:30:36,550 So good questions and we'll be learning as we go here. 578 00:30:36,550 --> 00:30:39,350 - Yeah thanks we'll be watching real close 579 00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:41,660 as I'm sure many others well. 580 00:30:41,660 --> 00:30:43,363 - Richard, do you want to say anything? 581 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,740 I'm gonna put you on the spot. 582 00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:49,310 - Yeah, so that's a real question, right? 583 00:30:49,310 --> 00:30:54,310 Is the bottlenecks in our upcoming process to enroll folks. 584 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,660 We're gonna be working with our own staff who exist now, 585 00:30:58,660 --> 00:31:01,110 who are going to be hired and we're also gonna be leaving 586 00:31:01,110 --> 00:31:03,680 on the professional forestry community in Vermont 587 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,730 and across the Northeast and relying on them in a big way 588 00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:10,640 to help to provide those services. 589 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,810 And we'll be working on how to structure that specifically. 590 00:31:14,810 --> 00:31:16,420 I think over the course of the winter and spring 591 00:31:16,420 --> 00:31:19,180 you're going to be hearing from us a fair bit 592 00:31:19,180 --> 00:31:21,590 at these sorts of conferences and each time you do, 593 00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:22,890 there'll be more detailed. 594 00:31:24,050 --> 00:31:28,750 - Perfect. I see Matt, you had a question in chat here. 595 00:31:28,750 --> 00:31:31,470 I don't know if you want to come off mute 596 00:31:31,470 --> 00:31:34,223 and ask that for the sake of the group. 597 00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:38,231 - Sure. Hey Jim. - Hey Matt. 598 00:31:38,231 --> 00:31:39,590 - [Matt] I'm just curious, 599 00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:42,100 is this sort of an ongoing revenue stream 600 00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:43,960 for conservation groups like TNC 601 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,260 when you've got these large holdings 602 00:31:45,260 --> 00:31:48,510 or just getting familiar with how the stuff works? 603 00:31:48,510 --> 00:31:52,420 - Yeah given the time I glossed over a lot of details here, 604 00:31:52,420 --> 00:31:54,203 so great question. 605 00:31:55,410 --> 00:31:58,360 The projects are generally broken 606 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,680 into 10-year crediting periods. 607 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,853 We'll go through a major reassessment of the carbon. 608 00:32:08,450 --> 00:32:12,450 We have to make commitments to hold the carbon for 40 years 609 00:32:12,450 --> 00:32:14,950 on Burnt Mountain and in Glebe. 610 00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:19,790 So, and we could continue to generate credits 611 00:32:19,790 --> 00:32:21,850 through that 40-year period. 612 00:32:21,850 --> 00:32:24,920 That said the credit yield starts to really drop off 613 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,830 in the out years because then you're sort of at a place 614 00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:30,873 where you're capturing growth only. 615 00:32:33,780 --> 00:32:35,920 Will still be valuable and we'll have to make a decision 616 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:36,780 about how we're selling those. 617 00:32:36,780 --> 00:32:40,010 So that we're really, at least me I'm looking 618 00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:43,150 at this as like a 10-year income stream 619 00:32:43,150 --> 00:32:47,220 with some maintenance revenue 620 00:32:47,220 --> 00:32:51,710 and to help cover sort of the stewardship costs 621 00:32:51,710 --> 00:32:54,513 of maintaining the carbon project going forward. 622 00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:59,120 On the Family Forest Carbon, those are 20 year payments 623 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,120 to landowners and at that point the contract ends 624 00:33:04,510 --> 00:33:07,400 and they'll have the opportunity to possibly renew 625 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,113 if the market's there. 626 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,060 - [Matt] Great. Thanks. 627 00:33:12,060 --> 00:33:13,403 Interesting. Yeah.