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[Shaun] Well, thank you.

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It's a pleasure to be
here, I do love Burlington.

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Can't say that I'm looking
forward to the drive home though,

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(attendees laughing)

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with the weather forecast.

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But I wanna take a few minutes
to talk about this project

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that I've been involved with for

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probably about three years now.

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And in my experience,
I've done a lot of work

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forest monitoring in Ontario,
working with the government,

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working in academia,
working with industry.

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But this is really something different

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because it's coming from the community.

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And in my experience, it's
unique, certainly in Ontario.

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And I know Ontario
isn't the United States,

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but we do have northern hardwoods.

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There's a lot of similarities.

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So it'd be interesting to see at the end

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what your feelings are
towards this kind of project

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and whether something like this

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would have any traction in this region.

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I'm the mouthpiece here,

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I'm just the guy telling you about it.

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but really a lot of
people involved in this,

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I have a lot of attendees,
undergrad, graduate attendees,

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working on various projects.

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They're the ones who do
the nitty gritty stuff,

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doing all of the measurements.

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I'll just caveat this
to say that I will show

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some kind of results early, at the end,

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but this talk's not
really about the results,

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it's more about the program
itself, how it came to be,

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what we do, and what the
open aspirations are.

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And in that sense, it's these folks here,

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the community in Muskoka,

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it's about two hours north of Toronto.

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I'm actually in Peterborough,
Ontario, not Toronto.

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It's a little bit closer.

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Probably more snow than
Toronto's gonna get.

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And I also, a big shout
out to this guy here, Norm.

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Norm Yan, I've known him
for quite a long time,

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over 25 years.

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And he's a fisheries ecologist,

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he worked for the Ministry of Environment.

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And everything he worked
on was water based.

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And I've been terrestrial
based in the forest,

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and I've kinda converted
him to a lungfish, I say,

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he's kinda coming out of the water

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and understanding what
we do on the landscape,

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what we do on the land actually
has implications for water.

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And you realize there's now
a lot of mitigation efforts

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to protect our water systems
need land-based solutions.

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So it's a lot of fun, a lot of interest.

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And then I don't know your backgrounds,

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how many of you are academics
and you publish a paper

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and then you put it away
and that's it, done.

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It doesn't really have that enjoyment,

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that satisfaction, I suppose.

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When you're working with community

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and they're generally interested,

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in many ways, it's more satisfying

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than just simply publishing manuscripts.

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But what's the issue,
why are we doing this?

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And it came out of concerns

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by the community about falling calcium.

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Well, I'll talk about why this project's

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related to calcium decline specifically,

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I think in context, it
can be broadly applied

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to any environmental issue,
that the same principle.

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If you get a cheerleader,
someone who's gonna take

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a lead role on this, you
can kinda make headway.

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So this is what they're doing.

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We have long term data for water.

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Water is a good indicator of the soils.

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Water drains through that, it's
easier, it's less variable.

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And so quite clearly you
can see declines in calcium

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that have occurred over the past 30 years.

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And in soils, what I'm
really looking for in soils

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a bit more challenging
because of that heterogeneity.

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And we're trying to look forward

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and I know this is a paper by Don Ross

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looking at changes in soil chemistry.

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And a lot of the loss in
calcium were historical

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in the sense that they
were caused primarily

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by a dry deposition leeching base cations.

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Deposition has been reduced
now so we're starting to see

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signs of recovery.

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You see a little bit in the poster.

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And so just looking at
various stands here.

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These are the model losses over 150 years,

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just focus on calcium here.

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So quite a lot of calcium
we believe has been lost.

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And we can forecast that
in terms of just looking at

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if we don't do any timber
harvesting, any renewal,

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we start to see recovery
over the next 80 years.

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But we don't replace what we've lost.

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And if we continue to
harvest and remove cations,

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then in all likelihood,
we will never replace

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what we've lost.

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So while we produced acid rain,

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these soils remain infertile,

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and we don't know what the long
term potential for recovery

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is gonna be in these stands.

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So in terms of the wood ash coming,

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well, wood ash is a
waste product in Ontario.

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It's illegal to dump it on the forest.

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90% of wood ash that we
generate goes to landfill.

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So there's a tipping fee,
there's a cost in site of that.

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And we have this natural fertilizer

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that we are just giving away.

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We're just throwing away this
cost associated with that.

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And so the advantage of
wood ash over some flat line

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is we have many nutrients.

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Calcium, magnesium, potassium, phosphorus,

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all the major macronutrients
are in there, except nitrogen.

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Nitrogen, we lose that
during volatilization.

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So we don't have nitrogen.

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We also have very high
nitrogen deposition values.

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So in some ways, the air
pollution has offset that.

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Though, even nitrogen now is going down.

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So we have a lot of nutrients.

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I mean we're talking 30% by
weight, in case of calcium,

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is what the median value is.

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As I said though, it's a
waste product in Ontario

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and that is because of the metals.

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Basically when we burn the
ash, metals are left behind.

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If we exceed the standards here.

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And this one is the CM2 standard

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that you cannot actually apply it to land.

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And because of that, right now,

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part of what we're trying to
do here is actually get ash

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reclassified in the province.

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So while I'm talking about
non-industrial wood ash,

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because it's community,

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and we're not talking about paper mills,

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the principle will apply going forward

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with two large scale ash producers.

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So while it's only
small scale in the sense

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that we're looking at
residential ash generation,

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the idea is, if we can change
the policy using this program,

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then we have opened up the
pathway for larger wood ash

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in a much larger potential scale.

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So it was, you know, it's not me that...

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Yes, I was involved,
but really the impetus

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has come from the friends of Muskoka.

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So I'll just walk you through
the process for doing this.

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So they tracked the watershed throughout.

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So they're looking at
things like invasive,

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they're looking at things like road salt,

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they're looking at a suite of things.

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They have a list of about 10
to 20 environmental issues.

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So in this case, they went,
"Okay, calcium decline

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is something that we wanna tackle.

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As a community organization,
what can we do?"

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So the first thing is well,
what are the knowledge gaps?

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What do we need to do to
try and tackle this problem,

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in this case, calcium decline?

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So as part of that,
the ash has been dated,

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they want know how much calcium is in ash,

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how much do we have?

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Dosage, because you're trying
to restore the nutrients

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in lieu of storing kilograms
per hectare of soil

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were modeled to have been lost.

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How much ash do you need to apply?

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Because the more ash you apply,

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then you're adding more metal.

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So it's a trade off, right?

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And there's also a cost
with transporting this

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and applying it in the field.

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So there's logistical issues.

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So in that sense, what are the risks?

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What are the benefits?

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We can identify those.

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Because it's green engagement
while we're now three years

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into this project, will
the community buy in?

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We need ash to do these
trials or we can't do it.

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So will they do it?

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And then we're looking
at how do we add it?

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Do we do it loose, do it
granular, do we homogenize it.

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And as approvals as well, as
I say, it's a waste product,

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how can we circumvent
the approval process?

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So the community is obviously
a charitable state themselves,

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so able to apply for certain funds.

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So they received an Ontario
Trillium Foundation grant,

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basically in their office,
pay for a coordinator.

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A lot of this stuff's done by volunteers,

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but also they've got academics involved.

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And I'm one of those academics

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because one thing academics
have have is cheap labor.

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We have attendees.

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Apologies to any attendees
here, it's learning experience.

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You gotta get all that.

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But ultimately we can do a lot
of stuff and we can start to,

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you know, work through this,
working with the community,

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trying to tackle those questions
that apply this knowledge

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and outreach.

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I'm gonna talk about the end,
you know, communicating this,

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As an academic, as a scientist,

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I'm certainly guilty
of being poor at that.

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We communicate through traditional ways.

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We don't necessarily get involved

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with the community the way it is.

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I'm learning.

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And I see the benefits of that.

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They branded it, they call it ASHMuskoka.

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They have a few goals here.
They want to generate public.

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I did have my very first MA
student work on this project,

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and it was really to interview
stakeholders, government,

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public, and forest industry as well.

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But also really why are we
doing this? What is that?

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And a lot of it is they realize that

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it's an education piece.

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Like people feel more
connected to their environment

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by getting involved in this.

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They don't read the papers,

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but they can go to these
meetings and get involved,

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and feel like they're actually
doing something meaningful.

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It is Canada's first
program, maybe, here as well.

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I'm not aware of anything
similar in the US

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I may be corrected.

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And obviously the science
based is coming into

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more getting into nitty
integrated, the details,

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if you're gonna do this, how
much, where do we do that,

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what's the benefits,
what's the risk, et cetera.

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So they were very thoughtful
about their branding

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and got all these great
little things that they do,

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which is really, really cool.

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And it really is working.

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I mean the public,

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they've had literally thousands of people

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who've donated ash.

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They get these large trash cans.

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They get ash from various sources.

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They come and donate it to a center.

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And then the idea is that
this ash is then stored

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and with the view of ultimately

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as we gather the information
to assure it's safe to do so,

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we'll start adding it to
forest in various trials

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that we were setting up

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to see what the benefits
and arms are doing.

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So the public have bought in,

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they bring it to these
transfer stations here.

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Norm Yan again is very
involved; he's very photogenic.

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He likes to get his photograph taken.

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You will not see me in any photographs.

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But they get these local stations.

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So the ash drives, every periodically.

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There are certain community
members who come in

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and donate ash periodically,

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00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:02,497
every month or so they might come in.

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"Here's my ash, brother."

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But they do have throughout
the year, these ash drives

253
00:11:07,020 --> 00:11:09,847
on a Saturday and it really does get,

254
00:11:09,847 --> 00:11:12,960
they collect thousands of tons of ash.

255
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,440
They get very dirty in doing this.

256
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,973
They do a loose screening,
because the reality of it is,

257
00:11:22,217 --> 00:11:24,780
it is not a controlled
experiment in the sense

258
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:26,160
we're taking what they've got.

259
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,100
And of course people
burn a variety of things.

260
00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:32,430
So all we can really do is
screen it for loose materials.

261
00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:34,650
And one thing we really
need to do is assess

262
00:11:34,650 --> 00:11:36,219
the durability in this ash,

263
00:11:36,219 --> 00:11:37,932
how variable is it?

264
00:11:37,932 --> 00:11:40,230
If we're going to try and regulate it.

265
00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:42,840
If it's inconsistent in
its chemical composition,

266
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,303
it's gonna be very hard
to get it regulated.

267
00:11:46,950 --> 00:11:49,230
So then we go out, once
we've got this ash,

268
00:11:49,230 --> 00:11:51,420
we go out and we apply it to the field.

269
00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:55,440
I say I'm not gonna talk too
much about results and science,

270
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,710
but we have a number of
trials in sugar bushes

271
00:11:58,710 --> 00:12:00,780
at a place called Big Camp Canoe.

272
00:12:00,780 --> 00:12:01,830
We're looking at dosage,

273
00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:04,530
we're measuring a whole
variety of ecosystem responses

274
00:12:04,530 --> 00:12:08,310
from tree growth, soil
aspiration, microbial communities,

275
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:12,330
soil chemistry, tree nutrition,
seeding regeneration,

276
00:12:12,330 --> 00:12:14,730
a whole bunch of things that we're hoping

277
00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:17,910
will give us insight into
what the application of ash

278
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:21,003
does to our forests.

279
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,840
These are just some the
attendees getting at out.

280
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,880
One thing, what the one
challenge that we have,

281
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,520
of course, is we get
individual buckets of ash

282
00:12:31,617 --> 00:12:32,790
or garbage pails of ash,

283
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:35,550
and we wanna try not homogenize it.

284
00:12:35,550 --> 00:12:38,220
So right now we have a
massive kind of cement mixer,

285
00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:41,160
and we get the ash and we try and--

286
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,320
We may get five or six or seven batches

287
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,750
that we homogenize to put in.

288
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:48,420
But what it does mean is that
when we go from side to side,

289
00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:50,603
that the ash may not be exactly the same

290
00:12:50,603 --> 00:12:53,430
because we use these 10
buckets for this side,

291
00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:55,170
we use these 15 for this side.

292
00:12:55,170 --> 00:12:58,110
So again, really trying
to understand how variable

293
00:12:58,110 --> 00:13:00,180
and consistent the ash is

294
00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:02,880
is going to be very important
for approvals processes.

295
00:13:05,010 --> 00:13:07,522
So this is looking at
individual samples here.

296
00:13:07,522 --> 00:13:10,413
Bunch of metals, cadmium, nickel, zinc,

297
00:13:10,413 --> 00:13:12,749
lead, arsenic, chromium.

298
00:13:12,749 --> 00:13:16,290
The one thing that we
found with the ashes,

299
00:13:16,290 --> 00:13:19,320
this is just distribution of
all the individual samples.

300
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,690
These are not the homogenized samples.

301
00:13:21,690 --> 00:13:22,640
So these are individual,

302
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,430
an individual sample will
never get applied to a stand,

303
00:13:26,430 --> 00:13:27,360
just one barrel.

304
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:28,980
It always gets homogenized.

305
00:13:28,980 --> 00:13:31,140
So this kind of worst case scenario,

306
00:13:31,140 --> 00:13:33,000
and we're just interested, you know,

307
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,540
does any sample exceed the CM2 regulation.

308
00:13:36,540 --> 00:13:39,660
This purple line here is
really what we we're asking.

309
00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:41,640
And by and large, we don't.

310
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,640
The mean median metal levels,

311
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,774
the regulated metals,
are well below the CM2.

312
00:13:48,774 --> 00:13:51,600
They're actually lower than industrial ash

313
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,880
based on comparative literature.

314
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,790
They're always got one sample
for certain metals, right?

315
00:13:56,790 --> 00:14:00,540
What we will see, and we
need to look into them.

316
00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:01,373
Was that a nail?

317
00:14:01,373 --> 00:14:04,110
Was it something unusual?

318
00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:07,170
Because ultimately we have to
make sure that we're always

319
00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:08,910
below these regulations.

320
00:14:08,910 --> 00:14:10,530
But it does seem that by and large,

321
00:14:10,530 --> 00:14:14,980
our ash is relatively low
in metal concentration

322
00:14:15,870 --> 00:14:17,220
and basically good.

323
00:14:17,220 --> 00:14:18,900
What does it do to the stands?

324
00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,510
So just to finish off with
some few little slides

325
00:14:21,510 --> 00:14:22,537
of what we're doing.

326
00:14:22,537 --> 00:14:24,713
We have the preapplication,

327
00:14:24,713 --> 00:14:27,030
we have the post application,

328
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:29,280
and in this case, we're
looking at control plots,

329
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,477
four tons, eight tone per hectare.

330
00:14:31,477 --> 00:14:34,830
So we've got the--

331
00:14:34,830 --> 00:14:37,710
I use a different soil
classification system.

332
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:39,906
Being Canada, we have the LFH.

333
00:14:39,906 --> 00:14:43,293
The A horizon and the B horizon here.

334
00:14:45,330 --> 00:14:47,250
Bottom line is when you add ash,

335
00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:51,150
the pH, not surprisingly,
increases by two pH units,

336
00:14:51,150 --> 00:14:54,750
four, eight tons in the
L and the FH horizon.

337
00:14:54,750 --> 00:14:57,960
We don't see anything in the
mineral soil horizon initially.

338
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,303
So this is just after 12 months.

339
00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:04,628
Both the metals are there as well, right?

340
00:15:04,628 --> 00:15:06,600
So this is cadmium. That's in there.

341
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:11,283
So same L, the litter, the
FH, and the mineral horizon.

342
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:15,540
Basically all the metals are
restricted to the litter.

343
00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:18,240
And if you look at the picture here,

344
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,380
it's basically the ashes.

345
00:15:19,380 --> 00:15:20,430
It's just laying on the leaves.

346
00:15:20,430 --> 00:15:22,020
It's there, and cadmium that's in the ash

347
00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:23,490
will countermeasure in the litter.

348
00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:26,340
It doesn't actually go
down into the soil profile

349
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:28,730
or didn't after a year.

350
00:15:28,730 --> 00:15:30,600
In terms of tree nutrition,

351
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,300
we're looking at things like that.

352
00:15:33,390 --> 00:15:36,030
The one that was most
responsive was potassium.

353
00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:36,990
And that's the thing that we've seen

354
00:15:36,990 --> 00:15:40,830
in all our wood trials
of the base cations.

355
00:15:40,830 --> 00:15:44,220
So why would this all come about
to address calcium decline?

356
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:46,470
Calcium is less mobile than potassium

357
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:48,060
less soluble than ash.

358
00:15:48,060 --> 00:15:51,300
Potassium is the first
base cation that responds.

359
00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:54,060
And actually potassium
is the only one we see

360
00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:56,040
the increase in the mineral horizon

361
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,750
compared to calcium magnesium.

362
00:15:57,750 --> 00:16:00,660
But we start to see both
immature and sapling trees

363
00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:01,530
at some sites.

364
00:16:01,530 --> 00:16:02,940
We have three different stands here,

365
00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:05,301
Brook, Wilf, and Mark different stands.

366
00:16:05,301 --> 00:16:07,380
These are post obligation.

367
00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:09,960
We do see increases folic potassium.

368
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,273
So there are effects on tree nutrition.

369
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,720
Thought I put this one
in because I'm in Vermont

370
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,180
and everyone wants a sugar maple.

371
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:19,581
And obviously that's the question, right?

372
00:16:19,581 --> 00:16:20,414
If we're adding ash,

373
00:16:20,414 --> 00:16:23,040
we've got metals and
these are sugar bushes

374
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,530
and one of the main
products is maple syrup.

375
00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:26,910
We have a lot of maple syrup up in Ontario

376
00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:28,828
but not as much as Vermont.

377
00:16:28,828 --> 00:16:30,527
We want to see what what it does.

378
00:16:30,527 --> 00:16:33,630
We had treated plots

379
00:16:33,630 --> 00:16:34,920
and treated plots here.

380
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,406
After our first year, what we found

381
00:16:37,406 --> 00:16:40,110
is when we actually had a lot more volume

382
00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:42,360
for some reason and the second year,

383
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,243
it was kind of more or less the same.

384
00:16:44,243 --> 00:16:46,792
I don't know why that happened.

385
00:16:46,792 --> 00:16:50,160
The real question is how
did it affect chemistry?

386
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,770
I had a lot of numbers
here just just to show you

387
00:16:52,770 --> 00:16:55,054
that we are measuring a
whole bunch of things.

388
00:16:55,054 --> 00:16:57,272
We didn't see any change in sweetness.

389
00:16:57,272 --> 00:16:59,328
So that wasn't a dilution factor.

390
00:16:59,328 --> 00:17:03,180
When we got more volume, it
wasn't a change in sweetness.

391
00:17:03,180 --> 00:17:06,178
We do see some small
differences in chemistry,

392
00:17:06,178 --> 00:17:10,140
but really nothing that is a concern.

393
00:17:10,140 --> 00:17:11,190
It wasn't like we were seeing

394
00:17:11,190 --> 00:17:12,993
increases in metal concentration.

395
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:15,870
There's not really
literature database out there

396
00:17:15,870 --> 00:17:18,047
for us to compare sap to call it.

397
00:17:18,047 --> 00:17:21,630
But if we allow for
concentration during dilution,

398
00:17:21,630 --> 00:17:24,810
we're nowhere near or we're
well within the range of values

399
00:17:24,810 --> 00:17:26,190
that you'll see in the literature.

400
00:17:26,190 --> 00:17:28,710
So it's not like we're adversely
affecting the chemistry.

401
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:31,650
So what we, based on
the two years we have,

402
00:17:31,650 --> 00:17:33,990
it's safe for for sap producers.

403
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:37,503
So we don't see or anticipate
any concerns there.

404
00:17:38,749 --> 00:17:41,730
Ultimately we're doing, you
know, we have band geometers,

405
00:17:41,730 --> 00:17:43,890
we're looking at small scale tree growth.

406
00:17:43,890 --> 00:17:45,420
I saw soil aspiration.

407
00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:46,320
We have community.

408
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,670
So I have a student who's getting citizens

409
00:17:50,670 --> 00:17:51,991
doing measurements.

410
00:17:51,991 --> 00:17:54,030
What we're asking
ourselves is how reliable

411
00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:54,930
those data.

412
00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:57,668
So then we follow them afterwards, kinda.

413
00:17:57,668 --> 00:18:00,870
And then we redo the
measurements and we plot,

414
00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:03,450
we compare their values versus our values.

415
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:04,283
Unsurprisingly,

416
00:18:04,283 --> 00:18:06,030
things that are relatively
easy to measure,

417
00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:07,500
they do a great job.

418
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:09,540
Some things are more difficult,

419
00:18:09,540 --> 00:18:10,620
it's not very reliable.

420
00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:12,510
So we're also involved in communities,

421
00:18:12,510 --> 00:18:13,343
things like that,

422
00:18:13,343 --> 00:18:15,120
so that they get some experience,

423
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,970
and use that and providing
insight into what

424
00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:20,223
kind of date are useful
and and what are not.

425
00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:24,000
We do outreach in two ways.

426
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,070
We have these documents,

427
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:28,830
these guides that are meant
to serve as indicators

428
00:18:28,830 --> 00:18:31,260
and obviously the peer review
literature is academic,

429
00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:32,093
we still have to do it.

430
00:18:32,093 --> 00:18:35,190
So a recent review that's
impressed right now we,

431
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:38,160
we've put together that talks
about ash amendments are

432
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,633
for hardwood forest.

433
00:18:40,772 --> 00:18:42,360
If you look at my name or Kim,

434
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,000
you'll see that environmental reviews.

435
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,927
And with that, thank you.

436
00:18:48,051 --> 00:18:51,218
(audience applauding)

437
00:18:55,487 --> 00:18:56,320
[Audience Member 1] I have a question

438
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,560
about the heavy metal concentrations.

439
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,240
Now is that something that is
naturally present in the wood

440
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,040
or is that only from contamination?

441
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,390
No, it's naturally present

442
00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:11,390
and certain species like
yellow birch and white birch,

443
00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:16,020
for some reason I don't know,

444
00:19:16,020 --> 00:19:18,510
naturally have high levels
of zinc and cadmium.

445
00:19:18,510 --> 00:19:19,343
If I were to recommend--

446
00:19:19,343 --> 00:19:23,400
So I've done studies looking
at metals in foliage and wood,

447
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,870
various tree species

448
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:27,300
and there's a lot of
variability among tree species.

449
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:28,530
So you'll have 10 times more,

450
00:19:28,530 --> 00:19:30,210
if you burn a lot of yellow birch,

451
00:19:30,210 --> 00:19:33,540
you're gonna have a lot of
cadmium and zinc in the ash.

452
00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:36,660
And also the more acidic the
soil that they're grown in,

453
00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:38,550
the higher than, of several metals,

454
00:19:38,550 --> 00:19:39,900
you're gonna have higher metals.

455
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:42,390
So most of it is coming from that.

456
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:44,490
Some maybe also coming from the fact that

457
00:19:44,490 --> 00:19:45,897
you're using steel chains or whatever

458
00:19:45,897 --> 00:19:47,719
and all the debris in that.

459
00:19:47,719 --> 00:19:50,340
But most of it is coming
probably from the ash.

460
00:19:50,340 --> 00:19:51,900
If you back calculate,

461
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:53,944
it's consistent with tree values.

462
00:19:53,944 --> 00:19:54,840
[Audience Member 1] So
what's the rationale

463
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:55,890
for the regulations then?

464
00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:57,840
Because if that wood were to just decay

465
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:58,980
naturally in the forest,

466
00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:00,840
isn't it all gonna end up

467
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,910
back on the forest floor anyways, so?

468
00:20:02,910 --> 00:20:06,360
Yes, that's exactly, exactly right.

469
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,183
I don't make the policy, right?

470
00:20:08,183 --> 00:20:09,090
(attendees chuckle)

471
00:20:09,090 --> 00:20:11,110
And that's what we're trying to educate,

472
00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:13,200
it's, you know, a lot.

473
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,840
There is no real policy for what ash is,

474
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,580
it's about soil amendments.

475
00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:20,490
So we are captured under that guise,

476
00:20:20,490 --> 00:20:21,720
as opposed to an ash.

477
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,418
So that's the problem.

478
00:20:24,418 --> 00:20:26,403
I can't say this,

479
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:30,480
it looks like we are
going about the policy,

480
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,140
it is gonna change
regulation to a fertilizer.

481
00:20:34,140 --> 00:20:35,564
That's the goal.

482
00:20:35,564 --> 00:20:39,180
Once we've done that,
then I think we're good

483
00:20:39,180 --> 00:20:41,415
and then we can start to scale up.

484
00:20:41,415 --> 00:20:43,700
[Audience Member 1] Okay,
thank you. That was good.

485
00:20:44,971 --> 00:20:47,310
[Audience Member 2] What's
your underlying bedrock?

486
00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:49,590
This is all Precambrian shields.

487
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:51,300
So we're looking really,

488
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,513
it's all mainly silicate minerals.

489
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,993
I actually have a one of the size,

490
00:20:59,070 --> 00:21:01,050
I'm interested in soil mineralogy in that

491
00:21:01,050 --> 00:21:03,780
even in these slides there
are small amounts of calcite

492
00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:08,070
and apatite that provide
small amounts of...

493
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:11,730
And even within a stand,
if I was to sample

494
00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:14,820
three, four trees within a
stand, I would see difference

495
00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:17,670
in isotope signature reflecting
the relative contribution

496
00:21:17,670 --> 00:21:18,990
of these trace minerals.

497
00:21:18,990 --> 00:21:21,408
So while it's overwhelmingly
dominated by home plan,

498
00:21:21,408 --> 00:21:24,930
spurs, these trace elements,

499
00:21:24,930 --> 00:21:26,517
trace minerals that are there,

500
00:21:26,517 --> 00:21:29,240
are very hard to actually
quantify. You can see

501
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,220
in the foliage based on the
strong isotope signature.

502
00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:34,692
[Host] All right, thank you Sean.

503
00:21:34,692 --> 00:21:37,692
(Audience applauds)