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[Tony] Those that are just coming in,

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just in terms of the goals of the session,

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it's to highlight the NSRC funding,

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what that does for supporting science,

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and I think that at
the end of the session,

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there's some discussion around
not just informative science

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but also informing actual information

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that managers can use
and apply on the ground,

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and so I think this project hopefully

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is a good representation of that.

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And so this was funded in 2022 by NSRC,

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so it's a year and a half in.

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So what you'll see is a bit
of what we've been doing,

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a little bit of what we've been producing,

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and then what's coming next.

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So there won't be a ton of results,

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but we'll certainly show you some

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of what we've been finding
out and figuring out ways

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to deal with these
challenges as it relates

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to climate change and
facing insects and diseases.

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And so the title of the
project really is really meant

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to reflect that the goal is not just

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to develop more science but to get people

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to actually apply that on the ground,

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to deal on what the grand
challenges that we're facing.

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But I think just for some grounding,

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not that anybody in this room
is convincing that people

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in the region are concerned
about different aspects

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of climate change and invasive species.

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This is a survey that I've
been fortunate to partner

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with Rachel Schattman at
the University of Maine

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that surveyed over 338 foresters.

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A chunk of those were rural foresters,

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the other chunk were urban foresters,

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and what this graph is
just showing is their level

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of concern with various
aspects of global change.

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So the dark bars are rural foresters,

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the lighter bars are urban foresters,

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and so they both agree on one thing,

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that insects and diseases
are their biggest concern,

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which I think most of us can appreciate.

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So we talk about climate change,

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but in the front of our brain, often,

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it's those immediate impacts

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of invasive insects and diseases.

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As you move along, we see some separation.

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So the rural foresters, it's snow pack,

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you know, not enough of it.

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Vegetation competition, too much of it.

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Extreme precipitation,
again, too much of it,

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region, not enough or (speaks
indistinctly) too much,

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you know, really, really
dealing with what we

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might experience in kind
of a larger landscape

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whereas the rural urban
forester's really concerned

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about things like heat, stress, you know,

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things that might be more
acute within an urban setting.

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And so the only reason I'm showing this

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is just to kind of highlight
those, a diversity of concerns,

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but generally, the consensus
we need to be adapting

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to those impacts and finding ways

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to actually address them on the ground,

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which is where this project
really tries to fit in.

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So the overall goal of this
project, as I mentioned,

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is not just to gain science information

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but really to try to
increase the application

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of adaptation on the ground,

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both to deal with insects and diseases

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as well as to deal with
climate change impacts,

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and so there's two broad
objectives I'll talk about.

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One is that the science
are really going out there

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and evaluating what are people doing?

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What are we seeing?

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Is there evidence that this
might actually even be effective

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as a way to deal with climate change?

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Other stressors, and then the second part

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is that science translation piece,

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developing that physician support

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that people want to actually
do this on the ground,

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so co-producing site level
best adaptation practices

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with managers to really
address these impacts.

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And so before this session was organized,

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we already had a workshop scheduled

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for the afternoon for this project,

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and so it'll be an opportunity
that if you are interested

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in getting more involved
with the co-production piece.

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We can talk through that,

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but I'll at least highlight
what we've been developing

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as a team team to really
address these issues.

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And so as a team, it's
definitely not just me.

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It's definitely more
others than me doing this,

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and so I'm really fortunate to partner

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with the US Forest Service,

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Northern Institute of
Applied Climate Science,

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in particular Maria Janowiak
and Danielle Shannon.

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Sam Samantha Myers is with
the University of Vermont,

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but she also works with
NIACS on this project.

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Several folks here at UVM,
including Tripp Whiting,

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who supported, as I already mentioned,

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as a grad student through NSRC.

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Forest Stewards Guild, as well
as several manager partners

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that have helped with perspective

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on just how we're developing these guides,

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who we're talking to,

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and how we're thinking about
adaptation on the ground.

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So I'm gonna go through just
again, in this short timeframe,

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just a little bit about how
we're assessing adaptation,

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like what are the outcomes,

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where we're using for
sites and information,

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and then get into kind of
that piece that I mentioned,

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like how do we translate that
into site level practice?

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And it's a little bit ironic
at the exact same time

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as this talk,

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there's another talk on
designing restoration studies

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to be adaptation experiments.

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So if you people that skipped this one

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are hopefully hearing similar messages,

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but there are a lot of resources
out there on the ground

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that we can be learning from now

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in terms of how people
are approaching adaptation

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and what the outcomes are of
those adaptation actions are.

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And so really, the cornerstone of a lot

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of the work we're doing is
taking advantage of the fact

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that many of you, and I
know many in this room

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are some of these dots on this map,

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have already been working
on thinking about,

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"How do I integrate climate
change invasive species impacts

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into my management and
operationalize it on the ground?"

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And in particular, for now 14 years,

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the climate change response framework,

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again being led by the Forest Service,

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NRS, and other partners,

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has been co-producing these
adaptation experiments

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and demonstration sites
across the northern US.

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And so what we decided for this project

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was to really hone in on the 30

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and then northern forest
region that really intersect

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with kind of our primary forest types,

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northern hardwoods,
mixedwoods, and spruce fir.

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And so we're doing kind of
two things at these sites,

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one, kind of measuring
and understanding kind

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of what's happening there.

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And some of these sites
are actual experiments

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that myself and others are involved with,

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but also gleaning information
from managers working

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at those sites is how
are you addressing this?

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What are some of the
barriers you're experiencing

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so that we can get a better collection

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of just what is that knowledge
base that's out there?

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What are people running into as issues,

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and kind of what are they
seeing out in the ground?

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So what are we doing in these areas?

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So I'm a vegetation person,

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so most of what we're doing
is measuring veg outcomes.

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You know, if we quadruple the budget,

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we could add in arthropods and wildlife.

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Thankfully, other projects are looking

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at other aspects of that,
but most of what we're doing,

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again, a lot of this is observational.

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Some of it's experimental, but
much of it's observational,

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trying to understand, you know,
structurally what do we see

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when people are managing for adaptation?

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What functions are
provided by those forests,

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both in terms of ecological values

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but also potential adaptation
pathways in the future?

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Certainly if we're measuring diameters,

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we can also be measuring carbon,

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so bringing in that element of it,

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but also understanding both
what's naturally regenerating

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as well as I'll talk about
in a second, and, actually,

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Matt will talk about a
bit more with their work,

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we're seeing this increase
in people planting things,

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and kind of what are they planting?

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How are those plantings doing?

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Are we getting a feel for
why people are planting,

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and does that give us a
sense for what we might need

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for additional nursery
stock, more seed collection,

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other things that are happening out there?

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And then finally, you know,

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can we actually get some evidence

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that not only are they changing
structure and composition,

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but does this actually

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confer some adaptation potential, right?

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We know that they're changing things,

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but does it actually do anything

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in terms of addressing
some of those challenges?

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So what I'm gonna focus in on today

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is a little bit of the work, again,

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hopefully to queue up what
Matt is talking about,

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that we have been spending a lot

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of time measuring seedlings,

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both naturally regenerated
as well as planted,

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across a bunch of different sites,

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and I'll give an example of
one large planting project

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that we've been able to
measure in partnership

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with a nature conservancy
as part of this work,

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just to give both perspective
on what people are doing

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as part of the planting projects

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as well as how that's faring.

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Now I'm first gonna start with just

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how we're utilizing that
network of sites just

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to harness information as to
why are people planting, right?

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Again, most of us in this room know

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not since the '20s and
'30s, the old '20s and '30s,

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there's been much interested in plant-

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-(audience laughs)
-(people speak indistinctly)

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Yeah, so previous '20s.
Why are people planting?

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Not as much Norway spruce as
Scots pine this time around.

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So Pete Clark has been
leading a bit of a survey

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as part of the folks
that we're working with

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across these demonstration sites,

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and you'll notice the sample
size is bigger than 30.

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So we're sampling kind
of all of New England

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plus New York to understand
like why are people planting

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or even interested in planting,

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and what is kinda the flavor
that they're approaching?

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And so anything in dark blue

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means they're already doing it, right?

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And then anything that's at
least some shade of blue means,

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if they're not doing it now,

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they're probably gonna on
on doing it in the future.

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And in general,

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what we find is 93% of the
people say they're gonna plant

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more than they did in the past, right?

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They're going there.

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And then this is just the
flavors of why people say

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either they are planting
now or plan to plant,

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and so the majority are
saying they're doing it

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to restore keystone species.

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So if we think about
American chestnut, you know,

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I think red spruce certainly
is a keystone species

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in the region, hemlock,
you know, a lot of interest

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in kind of restoring
that to the landscape.

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Likewise, this idea of
a replacement species.

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So, you know, an example might be if we're

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gonna lose black ash from a
wetland, can we swap white elms?

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If we're gonna lose hemlock from an area,

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can we plant other conifers to replace it?

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So really trying

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to kind of maintain that
bump in replacement.

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If we're gonna lose beech,

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can we plant another
map-producing species?

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And then these last three where we get

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into actually the assisted
migration flavors,

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so people actually articulating,

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they're thinking about assisted migration.

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So you notice a very large number do plan

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on doing what we call assisted
population of enrichment,

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so planting species within
their current range,

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sometimes planting a southern genotype

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of that species but
definitely planting them.

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A large proportion also talking

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about assisted range expansion,

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so planting beyond a
species range in the area

254
00:08:56,670 --> 00:08:59,250
that it would likely get
to if you could sprint

255
00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:02,760
as fast as climate's changing,
and then many are interested

256
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,336
in kind of assisted species migration,

257
00:09:05,336 --> 00:09:06,481
you know, long distance movement,

258
00:09:06,481 --> 00:09:07,830
and I think that just
generally reflects a lot

259
00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:08,663
of our sentiment.

260
00:09:08,663 --> 00:09:10,020
We're not comfortable with it.

261
00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:12,633
Already did it with
Norway spruce, Scots pine.

262
00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:15,077
That's out there, but not
(speaks indistinctly).

263
00:09:15,912 --> 00:09:16,980
So giving us a feel for what people

264
00:09:16,980 --> 00:09:18,933
are doing across the region.

265
00:09:20,488 --> 00:09:21,321
Likewise, we can get a feel

266
00:09:21,321 --> 00:09:23,280
from these experiments and demonstrations.

267
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,066
What are people primary planting now?

268
00:09:26,066 --> 00:09:29,130
And so by 20 to one,
red oak and white pine

269
00:09:29,130 --> 00:09:31,260
are the most commonly planted species.

270
00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:32,430
Couple things going on there.

271
00:09:32,430 --> 00:09:33,780
Makes sense for some of these sites.

272
00:09:33,780 --> 00:09:35,880
The other is anybody
that buy seedlings knows

273
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:36,930
if you want a lot of seedlings

274
00:09:36,930 --> 00:09:38,010
from the New Hampshire State Nursery,

275
00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:40,140
those are the two species
you can get a lot of.

276
00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:41,820
Same with New York.

277
00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:44,310
Red spruce, I know I have some
red spruce fans in the room,

278
00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:45,213
including myself.

279
00:09:46,149 --> 00:09:48,988
If you wanna buy red spruce,
really hard to get much of it,

280
00:09:48,988 --> 00:09:51,435
but people want it and
are planning for it,

281
00:09:51,435 --> 00:09:52,268
so we're seeing a lot of red spruce,

282
00:09:52,268 --> 00:09:54,030
and then many other species

283
00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:55,860
that aren't necessarily
long distance movement

284
00:09:55,860 --> 00:09:57,253
but just trying

285
00:09:57,253 --> 00:10:00,378
to kind of diversify a
northern hardwood stands

286
00:10:00,378 --> 00:10:01,629
and mixedwoods stands,

287
00:10:01,629 --> 00:10:04,252
and then a few efforts to
actually move stuff up.

288
00:10:04,252 --> 00:10:05,700
You know, Dan from Missouri,

289
00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:08,160
we're not gonna compete
with you for barrel states.

290
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,230
You'll see my growth data
in a minute on white oak,

291
00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:12,210
but nevertheless, you know,

292
00:10:12,210 --> 00:10:14,070
trying to at least think
about some of these species

293
00:10:14,070 --> 00:10:15,330
that might make sense functionally

294
00:10:15,330 --> 00:10:16,980
or ecologically in the landscape.

295
00:10:17,850 --> 00:10:20,250
So as I mentioned, a lot of
what we're doing at these sites

296
00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:22,080
is often observing
what's already occurred.

297
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:23,610
We often don't have

298
00:10:23,610 --> 00:10:25,710
like baseline data
pretreatment information,

299
00:10:25,710 --> 00:10:27,810
but some of these sites,
including some of the work

300
00:10:27,810 --> 00:10:31,260
that we've been able to partner
with Nature Conservancy on,

301
00:10:31,260 --> 00:10:33,090
they actually voiced some
base level measurements

302
00:10:33,090 --> 00:10:35,580
of what they did, and so we
could actually survey kind

303
00:10:35,580 --> 00:10:37,440
of a large planting
project to get a handle

304
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,270
on like how is this turning out?

305
00:10:39,270 --> 00:10:41,010
What's happening across the landscape?

306
00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:43,590
And so on the very, very edge of this map

307
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:45,540
is the Tug Hill Plateau region.

308
00:10:45,540 --> 00:10:47,190
This is a large landscape

309
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:49,980
that the Nature Conservancy manages,

310
00:10:49,980 --> 00:10:51,780
and there's a portion of that
where they're really trying

311
00:10:51,780 --> 00:10:54,434
to do some ecosystem restoration work

312
00:10:54,434 --> 00:10:55,440
of using patch selection harvest

313
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,927
and also thinking a little
bit about climate adaptation

314
00:10:57,927 --> 00:11:00,120
and what that might mean in terms

315
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,343
of diversifying species composition.

316
00:11:03,309 --> 00:11:04,142
And so they're very ambitious.

317
00:11:04,142 --> 00:11:07,920
I think it was just funded by
Wildlife Conservation funds.

318
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,539
Planted 8,500 seedlings,
ambitious by northern standards.

319
00:11:11,539 --> 00:11:12,372
I know that's a day for people

320
00:11:12,372 --> 00:11:13,890
in other parts of the country,

321
00:11:13,890 --> 00:11:15,750
and we're primarily focused on red oak,

322
00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:16,950
which is already in the landscape.

323
00:11:16,950 --> 00:11:19,300
So we'd call it assisted
population enrichment.

324
00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:21,210
White oak, which is not
currently in the landscape

325
00:11:21,210 --> 00:11:23,972
but projected to gain habitat.

326
00:11:23,972 --> 00:11:25,860
White pine, again, locally
present, and then sugar maple,

327
00:11:25,860 --> 00:11:28,143
they planted a southern
seed source of that.

328
00:11:29,802 --> 00:11:32,190
And so what we're seeing in
terms of the outcomes of this,

329
00:11:32,190 --> 00:11:34,860
this is some work that
Peter Clark has been doing

330
00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:36,810
that we're, you know,
as we see everywhere,

331
00:11:36,810 --> 00:11:39,583
red oak continues to do really
well in these plant things,

332
00:11:39,583 --> 00:11:40,416
but I think what's really striking

333
00:11:40,416 --> 00:11:42,524
is how well it's doing in height growth.

334
00:11:42,524 --> 00:11:43,357
This is absolute height growth

335
00:11:43,357 --> 00:11:44,670
of white oak across the sites.

336
00:11:44,670 --> 00:11:47,282
Again, Dan, don't worry,
white oak, you know,

337
00:11:47,282 --> 00:11:49,800
that height growth is maybe six months

338
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,750
in other parts of the country.

339
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:55,050
We're also seeing that southern
genotype not doing well.

340
00:11:55,050 --> 00:11:55,883
A couple things going on there, I think,

341
00:11:55,883 --> 00:11:58,321
in terms of just a planting environment.

342
00:11:58,321 --> 00:11:59,154
Like these are large patches.

343
00:11:59,154 --> 00:12:00,874
Throwing sugar maple out into that,

344
00:12:00,874 --> 00:12:02,183
probably wasn't a happy, happy tree.

345
00:12:03,652 --> 00:12:04,500
So what we're also doing,

346
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:06,150
and if anybody has questions on this,

347
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:07,650
there's somebody else in the
room that can answer them,

348
00:12:07,650 --> 00:12:09,480
is besides being able to measure

349
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,980
like what are the outcomes of experiments,

350
00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:13,410
we also wanna know does this
actually mean anything in terms

351
00:12:13,410 --> 00:12:17,375
of potential resilience of
that forest of future change?

352
00:12:17,375 --> 00:12:19,770
And so what we're doing is
also sampling mature trees

353
00:12:19,770 --> 00:12:20,640
from some of these areas

354
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,370
to evaluate non-structural carbohydrates.

355
00:12:23,370 --> 00:12:25,440
It's a proxy for the resilience potential

356
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,053
of that tree to future stressors,

357
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,180
and this is really inspired by some work

358
00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:33,450
that Audrey Barker Plotkin
led with the Harvard Forest.

359
00:12:33,450 --> 00:12:35,940
This is a graph just showing
predicted probability

360
00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:38,790
of survival during a spongy
moth outbreak depending

361
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:42,316
on how much stored
carbohydrates those trees had,

362
00:12:42,316 --> 00:12:44,310
and so essentially, kinda
the higher the concentration,

363
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:46,172
the higher kind of the resilience,

364
00:12:46,172 --> 00:12:47,005
the ability to bounce back.

365
00:12:47,005 --> 00:12:49,223
And so what Tripp's doing through his work

366
00:12:49,223 --> 00:12:50,056
is sampling mature trees

367
00:12:50,056 --> 00:12:51,660
and different adaptation type settings

368
00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:54,210
to see are there other,
some that have higher levels

369
00:12:54,210 --> 00:12:56,370
of stores and higher
ability to respond to that.

370
00:12:56,370 --> 00:12:57,930
So these are definitely results

371
00:12:57,930 --> 00:13:01,118
that are still in vials
and in Tripp's computers,

372
00:13:01,118 --> 00:13:02,283
so coming soon.

373
00:13:03,814 --> 00:13:06,960
So the other part of this is,
the plug for this afternoon

374
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,700
is that we wanna be
taking this information,

375
00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:11,010
both the science but also
again manager experience

376
00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:13,377
to co-produce like guidance on the ground.

377
00:13:13,377 --> 00:13:16,440
And so we've been really
fortunate, again, in partnership

378
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,230
with the Northern Institute
of Applied Climate Science,

379
00:13:19,230 --> 00:13:22,023
USDA Climate Hub, Forest Stewards Guild

380
00:13:22,023 --> 00:13:23,820
to now have a draft of a component

381
00:13:23,820 --> 00:13:26,283
of a manager's guide
adaptation in the region,

382
00:13:27,368 --> 00:13:28,500
and the idea is that
we've taken information

383
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:30,720
from all these adaptation
demonstration sites,

384
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,750
all of the experiments, all of
our discussions with managers

385
00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:36,060
to start distilling down
like what are some strategies

386
00:13:36,060 --> 00:13:37,593
that make sense on the ground?

387
00:13:38,867 --> 00:13:39,780
And so again, this afternoon,

388
00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:42,630
if you wanna have feedback on
this, here's an opportunity,

389
00:13:42,630 --> 00:13:43,890
but the way the guide is set up

390
00:13:43,890 --> 00:13:46,609
is that there are kind of three chapters,

391
00:13:46,609 --> 00:13:47,442
you know, one for northern hardwoods,

392
00:13:47,442 --> 00:13:49,860
one for mixedwoods, one for spruce fir,

393
00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:52,440
as well as boilerplate
information about vulnerability

394
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,900
for the region and adaptation strategies.

395
00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:57,150
And so each section has
kind of a general rating

396
00:13:57,150 --> 00:13:58,500
of vulnerability, kind of drawing

397
00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:00,660
upon the most recent
vulnerability assessment.

398
00:14:00,660 --> 00:14:02,217
We'll be updating this

399
00:14:02,217 --> 00:14:04,140
with the forthcoming
vulnerability assessment

400
00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:05,610
in the next year or so.

401
00:14:05,610 --> 00:14:07,710
Similarly, each section kind of gets

402
00:14:07,710 --> 00:14:09,840
into these site level factors that may

403
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,230
or may not increase or
decrease risk to climate.

404
00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:16,200
So, for example, to the re-gen
layers loaded with invasives

405
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,846
or you have earthworms or you have deer.

406
00:14:18,846 --> 00:14:19,890
Obviously, your
vulnerability in that site's

407
00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:21,090
gonna be very different than a site

408
00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:25,410
that it's just this flush
with re-gen limited impact.

409
00:14:25,410 --> 00:14:28,838
And then cross walking that
down, so what do you do

410
00:14:28,838 --> 00:14:31,043
to actually address
those site level impacts?

411
00:14:32,108 --> 00:14:34,337
And then tying that back to case studies

412
00:14:34,337 --> 00:14:36,076
of people actually doing
this on the ground.

413
00:14:36,076 --> 00:14:37,926
So trying to connect that whole loop.

414
00:14:39,082 --> 00:14:41,881
Also boilerplate information
on species suitability

415
00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:43,446
and then bringing in
some of our information

416
00:14:43,446 --> 00:14:44,993
on assisted migration for
each of those species.

417
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:49,620
So as I mentioned, this is
in year 1.5 of the project.

418
00:14:49,620 --> 00:14:51,510
So we'll be finishing up this this summer,

419
00:14:51,510 --> 00:14:52,860
but one thing that will be coming out

420
00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:55,170
at NESAF in Burlington, different venue,

421
00:14:55,170 --> 00:14:57,210
will be the final graph of that guide.

422
00:14:57,210 --> 00:14:59,430
So if you wanna have input on it,

423
00:14:59,430 --> 00:15:02,370
certainly today's not the only
opportunity, but at three,

424
00:15:02,370 --> 00:15:04,230
the workshop was already
scheduled prior to this session,

425
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:07,260
but I think it reflects NSRC and our goal

426
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:09,030
to be working with
managers, getting feedback.

427
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:11,700
We'll have a work workshop
to give some perspective

428
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:13,477
on how we're addressing this,

429
00:15:13,477 --> 00:15:15,323
what might be missing, and
what could be improved.

430
00:15:16,329 --> 00:15:18,900
So I'll thank the many people,
West NSRC for the funding,

431
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:22,053
and US Forest Service,
and take any questions.

432
00:15:30,249 --> 00:15:31,082
[Audience Member] Hi, Tony.

433
00:15:31,082 --> 00:15:33,840
As probably the only urban
forester in this room,

434
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,053
I appreciate the shout-out to
the urban forestry community.

435
00:15:38,010 --> 00:15:40,192
Curious about the comment

436
00:15:40,192 --> 00:15:41,025
about the New Hampshire State Nursery,

437
00:15:41,025 --> 00:15:43,260
and it has been a hot topic

438
00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:47,224
amongst our regional urban
forestry community as well.

439
00:15:47,224 --> 00:15:49,380
Just like has there been engagement

440
00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:51,030
about this project or other projects,

441
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:52,770
and or what would be
the hopeful engagement

442
00:15:52,770 --> 00:15:55,112
about expanding their seedlings?

443
00:15:55,112 --> 00:15:56,230
[Tony] Yeah, and Matt can speak to that.

444
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:57,900
I mean, they've been great to engage with,

445
00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:01,348
but they, you know, it's
like building their capacity.

446
00:16:01,348 --> 00:16:03,300
You know, they received
certainly some federal funding,

447
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:05,610
but yeah, we need way more
than just New Hampshire.

448
00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:07,140
So there's been some private,

449
00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:09,960
like Redstar is a good
example, that's, you know,

450
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,850
trying to build their own nursery capacity

451
00:16:11,850 --> 00:16:13,680
to deal with these projects, but yeah,

452
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,603
we need a significant investment.

453
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,680
And so hopefully, there'll be
some more thought put into,

454
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,199
you know, within the state of Vermont.

455
00:16:22,199 --> 00:16:23,032
As in New Hampshire,

456
00:16:23,032 --> 00:16:24,510
they've been really great
about working with us.

457
00:16:24,510 --> 00:16:26,220
I guess I'll point to Steve and John.

458
00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:27,994
There's some work with, you know,

459
00:16:27,994 --> 00:16:29,400
National Forest now to try
to develop seed orchards

460
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:30,960
for different climate zones,

461
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,728
but we're way behind on
so many, I'm not, yeah,

462
00:16:34,728 --> 00:16:35,561
we don't have a lot of
time to talk about that,

463
00:16:35,561 --> 00:16:38,103
but even in terms of seed source control,

464
00:16:38,103 --> 00:16:38,936
having diversity in our seed zones,

465
00:16:38,936 --> 00:16:40,950
so really, really trying to grow that.

466
00:16:40,950 --> 00:16:43,141
And then, again, you
know, we're fortunate.

467
00:16:43,141 --> 00:16:43,974
Within the Northern Research Station,

468
00:16:43,974 --> 00:16:45,450
there's a reforestation specialist,

469
00:16:45,450 --> 00:16:48,095
Carrie Pike and others,
have at a broader scale.

470
00:16:48,095 --> 00:16:49,923
This is not just a northeast thing.

471
00:16:50,936 --> 00:16:52,200
We're just a little bit further
behind the rest of the east

472
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,570
'cause we just have planted so rarely

473
00:16:54,570 --> 00:16:56,700
that we just don't have like
both the private growers

474
00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:58,720
and the state nurseries to do it

475
00:17:02,785 --> 00:17:05,110
for the seed collectors or,
you know, all that stuff, but.

476
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:08,790
[Audience Member] Sorry if I missed this,

477
00:17:08,790 --> 00:17:13,790
but for the range augmentation
and the range expansion,

478
00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:21,183
are you attempting to use
material of local providence?

479
00:17:22,060 --> 00:17:23,723
[Tony] Trying, yeah, and that's the-

480
00:17:23,723 --> 00:17:24,720
[Audience Member] What's
the deal with that

481
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:25,696
if you can't get it,

482
00:17:25,696 --> 00:17:27,870
and what's the ramifications
of like introducing seeds

483
00:17:27,870 --> 00:17:30,120
from the Midwest or something to-

484
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:31,308
[Tony] Yeah, I mean,

485
00:17:31,308 --> 00:17:32,700
I think that the seeds from the Midwest

486
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:35,700
have been introduced to
the region for millennia,

487
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:38,340
you know, and so I often think about just

488
00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:41,115
like the profitable
pressure that, you know,

489
00:17:41,115 --> 00:17:42,810
indigenous people, you
know, were providing.

490
00:17:42,810 --> 00:17:45,840
You know, we think about looking
at mass producing species

491
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,850
and their distribution,
kind of the correlation

492
00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:49,530
with historic settlements
and other things.

493
00:17:49,530 --> 00:17:50,530
It's pretty amazing.

494
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,030
So I don't ever think about
like if it's a red oak

495
00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:56,820
from like Southern New Hampshire

496
00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:59,043
and it's in Northeast Kingdom, Vermont,

497
00:18:00,008 --> 00:18:01,500
that's gonna escape and
totally poison the genetic.

498
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:03,570
I mean, it's already been, but yeah,

499
00:18:03,570 --> 00:18:05,280
I'd love it if we could have like dialed

500
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,380
into that next southern seed zone.

501
00:18:07,380 --> 00:18:09,240
It just doesn't exist for most species.

502
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,770
We're fortunate with red spruce, I'd say,

503
00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:14,185
is the most precision we have right now.

504
00:18:14,185 --> 00:18:16,912
I mean, we've done some work
with collecting our own seed

505
00:18:16,912 --> 00:18:17,940
to grow red oak and white oak

506
00:18:17,940 --> 00:18:20,040
and actually some partnership
again with NRS on that,

507
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:25,040
but yeah, we'd love to, and
that would be best practice.

508
00:18:27,001 --> 00:18:27,834
But I guess the reason I started

509
00:18:27,834 --> 00:18:28,950
was we've been moving
stuff for a long time.

510
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:32,170
We often ignore that, is, you know,

511
00:18:32,170 --> 00:18:33,960
you think about just
how much seed movement

512
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,583
has occurred historically,
so there's a lot.

513
00:18:38,583 --> 00:18:39,960
A lot's starting to happen. Yeah, Dave.

514
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,270
[Dave] what what's your
thinking on planting red spruce

515
00:18:42,270 --> 00:18:45,390
given that that's projected
to be a climate change loser?

516
00:18:45,390 --> 00:18:47,566
[Tony] I don't agree with the...

517
00:18:47,566 --> 00:18:50,599
(audience laughs) So I always like to say,

518
00:18:50,599 --> 00:18:51,870
"Even this year, the Patriots are losers,

519
00:18:51,870 --> 00:18:53,397
they still won three games."

520
00:18:54,468 --> 00:18:57,661
(audience laughs)

521
00:18:57,661 --> 00:19:00,000
It's gonna keep winning on
certain sites, and again,

522
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,242
you know, but most of ours,

523
00:19:02,242 --> 00:19:05,190
it's people lump it
into the boreal conifer.

524
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:08,130
Some people in the room that
are far more expert in this,

525
00:19:08,130 --> 00:19:10,680
but we're seeing recovery, and actually,

526
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,330
with red spruce just functionally,

527
00:19:12,330 --> 00:19:14,670
there's just not a substitute
for that in a lot of systems,

528
00:19:14,670 --> 00:19:17,310
and so we're fortunate
with red spruce being able

529
00:19:17,310 --> 00:19:21,393
to plant like southern seed
sources for that if we can.

530
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:23,400
But it's all about site.

531
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,928
Even sugar maple we used
to think it was doomed.

532
00:19:25,928 --> 00:19:27,170
Well, it's doomed on certain sites,

533
00:19:27,170 --> 00:19:28,003
but there's other sites
where it's gonna do well,

534
00:19:28,003 --> 00:19:31,053
and so I'm a red spruce zealot.

535
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,957
I support your (speaks indistinctly),

536
00:19:34,957 --> 00:19:36,660
but I think it, yeah, in
many cases, it's recovering,

537
00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:38,760
and I guess based even
our climate projections,

538
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,250
it seems like this wet and kind of,

539
00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:43,484
like the shoulder season wet, I mean,

540
00:19:43,484 --> 00:19:45,300
this seems to to fit pretty
well with it in certain areas.

541
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:46,590
Lack of snow could be a problem.

542
00:19:46,590 --> 00:19:48,431
[Audience Member] Right,
that's good to hear

543
00:19:48,431 --> 00:19:49,486
'cause we're gonna be planting.

544
00:19:49,486 --> 00:19:51,834
[Tony] Good, go for it. I endorse it.

545
00:19:51,834 --> 00:19:53,220
(audience laughs)

546
00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:56,330
Don't buy from New Hampshire
'cause I need those seedlings.

547
00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:58,611
(audience laughs)

548
00:19:58,611 --> 00:19:59,444
Only like 2,000.

549
00:20:00,795 --> 00:20:03,095
-One final quick question?
-Yeah, go ahead.

550
00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:05,030
[Audience Member] Would
you comment on the lack

551
00:20:05,030 --> 00:20:05,863
of snow might be a problem thing?

552
00:20:05,863 --> 00:20:08,463
I noticed snow is like the
second biggest concern.

553
00:20:10,110 --> 00:20:11,430
[Tony] Most of the respondents

554
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:14,100
are really focused in on operations,

555
00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:16,980
but yeah, in terms of the
insulation of the root system,

556
00:20:16,980 --> 00:20:19,593
so we get like deep
freezes without snow pack,

557
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,975
that I think that's the concern

558
00:20:22,975 --> 00:20:25,323
or even like this snow we just got.

559
00:20:26,677 --> 00:20:29,847
Just heavy, wet, you know, it's
a probability of windthrow.

560
00:20:30,985 --> 00:20:32,220
You know, damage is a lot higher

561
00:20:32,220 --> 00:20:33,053
with those incidents as well,

562
00:20:33,053 --> 00:20:36,330
but I think most of us view
that more from a urban forester

563
00:20:36,330 --> 00:20:39,120
that focus on operations
and access, but yeah,

564
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:41,370
it's also just even
protecting those root systems

565
00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:45,069
and you're harvesting, let
alone keeping 'em insulated.

566
00:20:45,069 --> 00:20:47,013
So that would be the one, I guess,

567
00:20:48,030 --> 00:20:50,674
dampering of my enthusiasm is that, yeah,

568
00:20:50,674 --> 00:20:51,507
we'll be in trouble if we stop,

569
00:20:51,507 --> 00:20:54,953
we really lose snow pack in
some of these areas, so yeah.

570
00:20:54,953 --> 00:20:57,510
But it's a huge, yeah, as
you know, big, big issue.

571
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:59,317
[Moderator] Okay, thank you, Tony.

572
00:20:59,317 --> 00:21:02,567
(speaks indistinctly)