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- Welcome everyone.

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Welcome back to part two

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of the Integrated Parasite
Management workshop

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with Betsy Hodge and Tatiana Stanton

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from Cornell Cooperative Extension

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and the Cornell Sheep and Goat Program.

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I'll pass it over to you two,

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if you wanna introduce
yourselves and Betsy give

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the Zoom introduction,
that would be wonderful.

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- Sure. I'm Betsy Hodge and
I am the livestock educator

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in St. Lawrence County, New York.

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Of course, I have a cat
helping me here tonight.

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I'm just gonna go through a
little bit of the Zoom etiquette

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before we start.

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And I'm excited about this second half,

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because this is really good information

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about what can you do
about all these parasites

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that seem like they're so well evolved?

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So tonight's presentation
is being recorded.

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So just keep that in mind
when there's background noise.

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Ideally, you'll keep yourself
muted until we're asking

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for questions or feel free any
time to write your questions

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in chat or raise your hand
so we know you wanna do that

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and I can show you how to do that.

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So the view for speaker view,

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which is you probably have anyways 'cause

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I'm sharing something,
but that's where there's

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a big picture.

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And then little people along the side.

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Now you go to view and
click on speaker view.

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View is up in the, usually
up in the upper right corner.

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There it is.

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And the little mute buttons
down on the lower left.

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And if you click it and
there's a red line through it,

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that means you're muted.

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And there's that little
conversation box is the chat.

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If you click on that, a
little box will open up

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and you can write in to everyone

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or two individual people, your questions

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and we can see them.

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If I was included in who
you're sending it to.

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And we can answer some
things right in the chat

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or if we get a lot of questions in chat

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about the same thing,
we can stop the speaker

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and talk about it.

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And if you wanna send other
reactions or raise your hand,

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it's under reactions, which
is also down on the bottom,

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usually as you're sharing your screen.

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So Tat, I'm gonna stop
sharing so you can start.

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- Okay. Is there anything
I need to do to be sharing?

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- Oh, you gotta find your
PowerPoint and click share and.

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- [Tatiana] Okay.

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- [Betsy] There you go. And then screen

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and introduce yourself.

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- [Tatiana] Yes I will.

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Okay. And I'm gonna make this.

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- Slideshow.

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- No, I, somehow don't
have it full screen.

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So I'm trying to figure that out.

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- I will go to full screen when
you hit slideshow, I think.

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- Okay.

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- And if you go to the left
where it says from beginning

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or from current slide,
if you click on that,

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it should go to full screen.

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- Okay. It did.

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Yeah. Thank you all for
your assistance on that.

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Okay. So I'm Tatiana Stanton,

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I'm the sheep and goat
extensionist for the state

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of New York working out
at Cornell University.

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Like Betsy I also raise
my own small ruminants.

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I have a herd of pasture-based meat goats,

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primarily boers and boer alpine crosses.

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And I originally came out of,
I've worked with dairy goats,

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meat goats, brush goats, not
as much with fiber goats,

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but I have a lot of practical experience

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and unfortunately have dealt
with a lot of parasite issues

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myself and also doing
research, have done research,

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applied research with different
types of parasite control.

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So I'll talk about a little
bit of what we've done

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that way as well.

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So today we're starting out on part two,

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which is know your weapons,

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start to know what you can
do to manage your parasites.

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We talked last week, at
the end of our discussion,

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we had talked about chemical dewormers.

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And right now I'm gonna sort

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of emphasize pasture management,
including evasive grazing

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and a few other things and then
nutrition, genetic selection

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and the immune system and
then selective deworming.

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And then we'll go into part
three after that, okay.

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And I'm having trouble getting
it to move to the next slide.

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- [Betsy] If you click
down and there you go.

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- [Tatiana] Yep. Okay.

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All right.

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- So there's a lot of things
you can do that are not

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with drugs.

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- And Betsy, I'm back.

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- You're back. There you go.

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We just got back to sharing my PowerPoint.

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Are you ready to share yours
and I'll stop sharing here?

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- Why don't we, is this the one from box?

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- This is the one that from last week.

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So if you've changed things.

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- I think let's just go ahead and use it.

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There were only two changes I made

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and I can remember them, I think.

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- Okay. So you'll just
give an add when it's time.

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- If I freeze up again, you
can just keep going, okay.

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- Good point.

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- All right.

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Okay, so when we look at
grazing management to reduce

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our barber pole worm
problems and a lot of this

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would be true of your other
strongyle worms as well.

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We're hoping to use
clean and safe pastures

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because the pasture
contamination with worm eggs

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is strongly influenced by
the height of your pasture,

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your grazing duration, how long
are you leaving the animals

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on this, the pasture through this cycle.

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And then how long before you
come back down the pasture,

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how long does that paddock
grazing paddock get rested

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before the animals are back on it?

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And this can be difficult to
implement these recommendations

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for your entire grazing season.

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You can also use multi-species grazing

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or alternative forages.

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And for a lot of the stuff
I'm gonna be talking about

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when it comes to evasive
grazing is gonna be really hard

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to do with the whole herd.

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And so your priority would be
the most vulnerable animals

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such as your recently
weaned kids and lambs

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or your lactating does
and ewes as compared

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to your dry stock as far as.

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So you may not follow
all this advice, next.

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Okay. And so basically
you've got this cycle

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where your lamp, your ewe
runs out to the field,

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she squats and she pees and poops.

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And in that poop, you've got
your eggs and then they go

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through several stages and
then they crawl up the grass

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and she eats them again. Okay.

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And they can't crawl very far
from where they've hatched.

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But it is as much as several feet. Okay.

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And then next slide.

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Okay, so the eggs are in
the feces and they fall

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from the animal to the ground.

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And for barber pole
worm, it requires warmth,

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but that can be as cool
as 50 degrees Fahrenheit

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to get a lot of hatching.

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And you get lots of response
by 60 degrees Fahrenheit.

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And unfortunately in the Northeast US,

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our temperatures tend to warm
up pretty fast in the spring.

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As you can see from what
this last week has been like

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in most parts of the Northeast
and it requires humidity

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and it hatches into that
stage one larva at that point.

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And for barber pole worm,
if you wanna be more exact,

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it says it takes about three
to five days to hatch at

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in the upper seventies.

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And as much as 15 to 30 days to hatch,

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when the temperatures
are about 50 degrees.

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And the L-1 eats bacteria
in the feces and it grows.

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It just pretty much is very happy

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to just stay in that feces.

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And then it molts just like a snake would,

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it sheds that skin and it
becomes an L-2 and the L-2

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does the same thing.

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It generally just stays in the
feces and eats bacteria there

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and then molts again.

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And if your goat was to eat
or sheep was to eat either one

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of these L-1 or L-2,
they wouldn't complete

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a life cycle in it.

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These aren't capable of becoming,

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getting into your animal
and becoming an adult.

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Keep in mind that direct sunlight
can heat that fecal pellet

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to 155 degrees Fahrenheit.

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And at that point, that
pellet of feces is sterilized.

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And those eggs aren't gonna survive,

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let alone those L-1 or L-2.

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And because of that,
we'll sometimes recommend

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that as you move animals out
of a pasture, if you've had

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them there for a few days,
as you move them out,

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if you can mow that pasture
really short, that can aid.

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Unfortunately, except for
our first pass through

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in the spring, when you
mow, even mowing it short,

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even if they grazed it pretty
well and then you mowed it,

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there's not gonna be much mulch there.

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But otherwise if you're
moving them every day

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or every few days, which
is often recommended

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and you go to mow it, you're
more just putting a lot

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of mulch on there for them.

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That's gonna protect
those worms even more.

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So this mowing is really only effective

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when it's early in the spring

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and it's been grazed pretty
short and then you mow

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and the sunlight is really able to get in

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there and hit those fecal pellets.

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And because of that, your
shade trees and your tall,

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dense grass, just keep in mind
that there's usually a lot

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of survival of your L-1 and
L-2 larva in those situations

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within the feces, there's
a lot of survival.

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So while it's nice to have
shade trees out there,

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there's a bad side to them
when it comes to survival

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of your L-1 and L-2.

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The L-2 then molts into an L-3 however,

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this time the L-3 is evolved
to get out of that feces,

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get out of that fecal pellet.

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And because of this nature has made it so

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that it doesn't shed that previous skin.

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It keeps that skin and it
gets a second skin on it,

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which makes it much more, less
susceptible to drying out.

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But because it's got
this skin over its mouth,

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it cannot eat and it has to
live off of its stored reserves.

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Worms are coldblooded.

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So their metabolism
speeds up when it's hot.

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So therefore the barber
pole worm larva, L-3 larva

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can only live about 30 to
60 days in hot weather.

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In cold weather, cool weather it can live

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about 120 to 240 days.

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And we used to say that
the barber pole worm larva

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can't survive freezing that
this does not necessarily mean

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that it can't take
super cold temperatures.

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And we'll talk about
that more later, next.

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So it takes about five
to 14 days for the egg

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and the feces to go from being
an egg to being an L-3 larva.

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And in some cases, I know
this last previous summer,

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when it was really warm and humid,

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we were finding it taking less than that.

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It was taking more like
three to four days sometimes,

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but the pasture becomes
infectious at this time.

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So when your animals been,
this time of year or a month

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from now, it's only gonna be
taking about four to five days

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to go from being eggs,
to being infectious.

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And most of these L-3
larva can't get more than

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about two inches high on a blade of grass.

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They come up with the
morning dew or with the rain.

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They're movement is
dependent on water flow.

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So they come up with that.

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And then as the sun dries
that dew, they go back down

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to the soil level, okay.

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But they're heavily concentrated
in their first two inches.

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The L-3 has to escape from
the fecal pellet in order

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to infect your goat or sheep.

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And it can only live
about a week or two inside

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the fecal pellet, if it's hot and dry.

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The pellet has to be broken up by rain.

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And that's about two inches
of rain in a month's time.

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00:13:08,052 --> 00:13:11,410
And unfortunately in the
Northeast, we usually get

246
00:13:11,410 --> 00:13:13,960
those two inches of rain per month.

247
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,830
And then if you also think
about what your animal's feces

248
00:13:17,830 --> 00:13:20,110
are like right now, most of your animals

249
00:13:20,110 --> 00:13:22,540
aren't having hard
fecal pellets right now,

250
00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:24,150
if they're out on pasture.

251
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:27,000
They're having really soft, manure,

252
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,710
which is really easy for
this L-3 larva to get out of.

253
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:34,170
And then it scoot, to protect itself.

254
00:13:34,170 --> 00:13:36,730
It gets under fallen
leaves or in the debris.

255
00:13:36,730 --> 00:13:41,269
And then, like I said, it
scoots up and down your forage

256
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:44,673
with water, okay. Next.

257
00:13:47,169 --> 00:13:50,200
So it's definitely survival
of the fittest and only

258
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,460
about two to 10% of the eggs
end up becoming L-3 larva.

259
00:13:54,460 --> 00:13:56,830
But unfortunately with barber pole worm,

260
00:13:56,830 --> 00:13:59,310
that's still usually a lot of eggs.

261
00:13:59,310 --> 00:14:03,029
In the tropics, the population of L-3,

262
00:14:03,029 --> 00:14:06,530
after fresh manure has been
deposited in the pasture,

263
00:14:06,530 --> 00:14:09,485
peak at about 14 days afterwards.

264
00:14:09,485 --> 00:14:12,250
And unfortunately in temperate climates,

265
00:14:12,250 --> 00:14:14,820
it takes it about 35 days to peak.

266
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:17,300
So this doesn't mean that
you're leaving your goats out

267
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:19,270
there or your sheep out there.

268
00:14:19,270 --> 00:14:21,070
It means that if your
animals are in an area

269
00:14:21,070 --> 00:14:26,070
for about four days, that if you,

270
00:14:26,157 --> 00:14:31,157
if you move them out of
that area from the time

271
00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:36,700
the fresh manure started,
it's gonna be about 14 days

272
00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:40,200
after that in the tropics
that the population of L-3

273
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:41,980
on the pasture's gonna peak.

274
00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:44,700
And unfortunately in
our temperate climates,

275
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:47,583
it's gonna be more like
about 35 days after,

276
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,787
because it takes time for it to hatch.

277
00:14:51,787 --> 00:14:53,830
And some of them will
start hatching like I said,

278
00:14:53,830 --> 00:14:58,830
as earlier as four or five
days after, but by 35 days,

279
00:14:59,330 --> 00:15:02,760
pretty much they're all hatch a lot, okay.

280
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,030
Then it has to be eaten by a goat or sheep

281
00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:08,290
to continue development.

282
00:15:08,290 --> 00:15:13,290
Cattle and horses can
vacuum up the L-3 larva

283
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,240
from barber pole worms in sheep and goats,

284
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,750
but they have a specific
barber pole worms of their own.

285
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:26,340
However, there are species
of barber pole worms

286
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:28,540
that infect sheep and goats

287
00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:31,260
and will infect young calves as well.

288
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:35,320
So you need to keep that in mind, okay.

289
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,320
And so if the larva, L-3 larva
is vacuumed up by your cattle

290
00:15:41,540 --> 00:15:43,760
and horse, adult cattle and horses,

291
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,740
it usually will stop its life cycle.

292
00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:47,640
It won't be able to continue.

293
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,200
And like I said earlier,
they used to think L-3

294
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,020
couldn't survive freezing
and couldn't survive outside

295
00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:54,600
in the Northeast winters,

296
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,960
but they've done studies
at University of Maine

297
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,230
where they took barber
pole worms from Maine

298
00:16:00,230 --> 00:16:01,449
and from Virginia.

299
00:16:01,449 --> 00:16:04,206
And they found that they could tolerate

300
00:16:04,206 --> 00:16:09,206
about 10 degrees Fahrenheit
for up to three to six days

301
00:16:09,270 --> 00:16:12,550
before they got significant
dying off versus

302
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:16,020
they took barber pole worms from Georgia.

303
00:16:16,020 --> 00:16:19,040
And those that came directly from Georgia,

304
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,560
that they were from goats
and sheep in Georgia.

305
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,009
And they found that those
started dying off significantly

306
00:16:26,009 --> 00:16:29,570
at about 20 to 25 degrees Fahrenheit.

307
00:16:29,570 --> 00:16:32,806
So unfortunately, as barber
pole worm has moved north,

308
00:16:32,806 --> 00:16:37,806
it's become, it's
genetically been selected

309
00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:41,160
to survive colder and colder temperatures.

310
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,622
So it's probably just gonna
get more and more tolerant

311
00:16:43,622 --> 00:16:45,540
of cold weather.

312
00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:49,450
And once the L-3 is inside the
goat, it leaves that sheath.

313
00:16:49,450 --> 00:16:52,750
And we call that sheath,
the second cover that first,

314
00:16:52,750 --> 00:16:55,420
that covering that's
growing over its mouth.

315
00:16:55,420 --> 00:16:59,000
It leaves that sheath
and it molts into the L-4

316
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,450
and then it can make a choice.

317
00:17:00,450 --> 00:17:04,610
It can either decide to
stay in L-4 and over-winter

318
00:17:04,610 --> 00:17:07,477
in the goat in a state
of hibernation or a state

319
00:17:07,477 --> 00:17:11,500
of suspended animation
or it can become an L-4

320
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:15,490
and then decide to become an L-5, okay.

321
00:17:15,490 --> 00:17:18,763
And that has to do with
how many worms are already,

322
00:17:18,763 --> 00:17:23,763
mature worms are already in
that particular sheep or goat.

323
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,630
If there's already a lot of worms there,

324
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:30,500
then there's trigger or
feedback mechanisms that,

325
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:33,940
that L-4 larva get that
tells it, oh, already,

326
00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:35,840
there's too many mature worms.

327
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,810
I'm gonna just stay and I'm
just gonna go into hibernation.

328
00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:43,024
And also has to do with
the season of the year.

329
00:17:43,024 --> 00:17:47,000
It has triggers that let it know what kind

330
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,810
of day length is going
on and it can decide, oh,

331
00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:51,810
winner's coming, it's time to hibernate

332
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:55,240
and not become a mature adult.

333
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,450
So we have a term called evasive

334
00:17:58,450 --> 00:18:01,180
or sometimes it's called
avoidance grazing.

335
00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:04,592
And this is a method of
grazing that is dependent a lot

336
00:18:04,592 --> 00:18:08,782
on your parasites and
you make your decisions,

337
00:18:08,782 --> 00:18:11,660
a lot of your decisions
based on parasites.

338
00:18:11,660 --> 00:18:14,297
And it means that you're gonna
move your animals fast enough

339
00:18:14,297 --> 00:18:18,187
out of a grazing paddock to
prevent them getting infection

340
00:18:18,187 --> 00:18:20,770
from feces that's been deposited

341
00:18:20,770 --> 00:18:24,460
during the current grazing
period and the fancy term

342
00:18:24,460 --> 00:18:26,610
for that is autoinfection.

343
00:18:26,610 --> 00:18:30,810
And so it's gonna for barber
pole worm be at the shortest

344
00:18:30,810 --> 00:18:34,680
about four to five days
up to about 14 days

345
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,290
during the grazing season
for it to go to from being

346
00:18:37,290 --> 00:18:39,110
an egg to an L-3.

347
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:43,280
So we usually advise people,
farmers to play it safe

348
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,700
by moving your animals
out of a grazing paddock

349
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:50,680
within four days in about
four days, if it's a wet,

350
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,760
warm time of year to about seven days

351
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,550
in the cooler drier part of the year.

352
00:18:56,550 --> 00:18:58,960
And we also say move them earlier

353
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,730
if the pastures getting
too short, because remember

354
00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:04,799
those worms are concentrated
in the first two inches

355
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:07,470
of forage, okay.

356
00:19:07,470 --> 00:19:10,520
And these recommendations
for how long to leave

357
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,180
your animals in a pasture
and how tall to let

358
00:19:13,180 --> 00:19:15,440
your pasture get, we want it to be way

359
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,350
over those three inches and as
you move out of the pasture,

360
00:19:20,350 --> 00:19:23,850
we don't want it to be any
shorter than three inches.

361
00:19:23,850 --> 00:19:26,950
These recommendations are
also very good for the health

362
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:29,940
of your pasture and the
nutrition of your pasture.

363
00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:34,010
But unfortunately the next
recommendation is not good

364
00:19:34,010 --> 00:19:36,860
for the health of your
pasture or the nutrition

365
00:19:36,860 --> 00:19:40,430
of your pasture because
we're saying that you need

366
00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:43,610
to allow a long enough rest
period before you return

367
00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:46,500
to that particular grazing paddock

368
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,070
that you're getting substantial
kill off of the L-3 larva

369
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:52,350
of that infectious larva

370
00:19:52,350 --> 00:19:55,200
before the animals come back to graze.

371
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,190
And unfortunately, that's
about 60 days at the shortest

372
00:19:59,190 --> 00:20:02,310
and about 105 days at the longest.

373
00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:04,930
So Cheryl is asking if they can also crawl

374
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:06,680
up broad-leaf plants?

375
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,580
They can, but it's more
difficult for them.

376
00:20:09,580 --> 00:20:12,080
And so it's harder for
them to get up as high

377
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,820
on a broad-leave plant.

378
00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:17,897
At the same time when it
comes to clover and alfalfa

379
00:20:19,220 --> 00:20:21,870
and probably your bird's foot trefoil,

380
00:20:21,870 --> 00:20:22,703
they can still get up.

381
00:20:22,703 --> 00:20:24,030
But part of it has to do

382
00:20:24,892 --> 00:20:27,500
with there's so much
branching going on versus

383
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,210
when you think of a blade of grass,

384
00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:31,550
the blade of grass starts
pretty close to the ground

385
00:20:31,550 --> 00:20:35,494
and then goes up and so an
animal can go pretty high on it,

386
00:20:35,494 --> 00:20:38,000
versus they're having
to make a lot of choices

387
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,380
of where to go if they're
trying to come up a legume

388
00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:44,940
or most, a lot of your broad-leaves.

389
00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:48,440
They come to a branching point
and so you're losing more

390
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,860
and more of them as it branches.

391
00:20:50,860 --> 00:20:55,860
And some of those plants also
have compounds that may help

392
00:20:56,164 --> 00:20:59,930
to make it harder for the
animal to get up there.

393
00:20:59,930 --> 00:21:01,780
You're not getting this smooth flow

394
00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:06,553
of morning dew going straight up, next.

395
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,540
Okay, so I mentioned that
this last recommendation

396
00:21:13,540 --> 00:21:17,930
is not good for your
animals getting nutrition

397
00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:19,210
from the pasture.

398
00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:22,540
And so the big problem is that
these pasture rest periods

399
00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:26,190
that we're recommending for
evasive or avoidance grazing

400
00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:29,310
in order to control barber
pole worm are much longer

401
00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:31,620
than what you would normally
recommend for either

402
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:34,690
the health of your pasture
or for the nutritional value

403
00:21:34,690 --> 00:21:36,370
of your pasture.

404
00:21:36,370 --> 00:21:39,642
And this is a picture at my
farm many, many years ago,

405
00:21:39,642 --> 00:21:43,540
when I didn't have as
many, my animals were just

406
00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:46,210
like first generation
boer crosses and stuff.

407
00:21:46,210 --> 00:21:48,621
And my does had come into
this field the day before.

408
00:21:48,621 --> 00:21:53,621
And they had come in there
and the grass was tall.

409
00:21:57,041 --> 00:22:02,041
It had been a long rest
period and they came in here

410
00:22:02,190 --> 00:22:04,550
and they just trampled it down.

411
00:22:04,550 --> 00:22:08,480
It was high, lignified enough
that the stems had gone down

412
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,650
the day before and hadn't
bounced back up this day.

413
00:22:12,650 --> 00:22:15,350
And they went through this
and then the day before

414
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:18,620
they'd gone through this and
broken out into my hayfield

415
00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:21,680
next door that had been mowed for hay

416
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,070
about four weeks earlier

417
00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:25,997
and had really nice, young regrowth on it.

418
00:22:25,997 --> 00:22:28,420
And they'd gone out there and grazed that.

419
00:22:28,420 --> 00:22:30,480
And they went to do the
same thing this day.

420
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,530
And luckily the fence was
harder, so they weren't able to,

421
00:22:33,530 --> 00:22:36,820
but they knew that the stems
were getting lignified.

422
00:22:36,820 --> 00:22:39,190
There were still a lot
of good grass out here

423
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:41,380
and good nutrition out
here don't get me wrong,

424
00:22:41,380 --> 00:22:43,750
but they knew the stems were lignified

425
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:46,033
and they wanted out of there. Next slide.

426
00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:51,390
Okay, so how good does parasite avoidance

427
00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:53,980
or parasite avoidance work?

428
00:22:53,980 --> 00:22:57,710
And sometimes it works
pretty, pretty significantly.

429
00:22:57,710 --> 00:23:00,680
This is a study they did
at West Virginia University

430
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,890
with their organic sheep
flock, where they did

431
00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:07,530
what they call it, avoidance grazing

432
00:23:07,530 --> 00:23:10,640
and the animals grazed a
paddock for three days.

433
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,164
And then they didn't
return to that same paddock

434
00:23:13,164 --> 00:23:16,380
for at least 57 days.

435
00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:19,070
And then they had challenge
brazing where the animals

436
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:21,410
were left in a paddock for seven days.

437
00:23:21,410 --> 00:23:24,240
And then they returned and they only had

438
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,270
a 21-day rest period before
they returned to that pasture.

439
00:23:28,270 --> 00:23:31,853
And they found that they had
twice as many strongyle worms

440
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:37,260
in those pastures that
were challenged grazed,

441
00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:39,970
the ones where they didn't
have as long a rest period

442
00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:43,290
and where they kept them in
there a little longer grazing.

443
00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:47,420
And because of that, they
had to much more of the lambs

444
00:23:47,420 --> 00:23:50,444
that were on those
pastures on those paddocks.

445
00:23:50,444 --> 00:23:52,480
They had to chemically treat them.

446
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,210
So they were only able to
market about 46% of the lambs

447
00:23:57,210 --> 00:24:02,170
that they managed under
challenge grazing as organic

448
00:24:02,170 --> 00:24:07,170
versus the lambs that they
manage under avoidance grazing.

449
00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:12,222
They were able to market 83%
of them as organic lambs.

450
00:24:12,222 --> 00:24:15,970
And at this point in the
study, they waited later

451
00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:19,330
before they sold them for meat.

452
00:24:19,330 --> 00:24:22,810
But when they finished
this study, the weight gain

453
00:24:22,810 --> 00:24:25,840
was better on the ones
that had avoidance grazing.

454
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,053
So even though you had this nutritional,

455
00:24:29,053 --> 00:24:31,820
even though the nutrition
was not quite as good,

456
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:34,750
because the animals were
coming into the pastures

457
00:24:34,750 --> 00:24:39,750
for their second, later
grazings, after the pasture

458
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:44,572
had grown out more, they
still got more nutrition

459
00:24:44,572 --> 00:24:49,153
because they had less of
a parasite load, next.

460
00:24:53,020 --> 00:24:56,230
So are there safe pastures
that animals can be switched

461
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:59,450
to as the grazing season progresses?

462
00:24:59,450 --> 00:25:01,820
And that's one thing to think
about 'cause by the time

463
00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:05,649
we get into July often our
pastures are pretty infected,

464
00:25:05,649 --> 00:25:08,770
regardless of whether
you're using a evasive

465
00:25:08,770 --> 00:25:09,810
or challenge grazing.

466
00:25:09,810 --> 00:25:12,790
Do you have brush pastures
or hayfield regrowth

467
00:25:12,790 --> 00:25:14,620
that your animals can go on?

468
00:25:14,620 --> 00:25:16,680
Or do you have pastures
that you've had cattle

469
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,350
or horses grazing on?

470
00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:20,370
And can you switch from that set

471
00:25:20,370 --> 00:25:22,450
of pastures to (indistinct)?

472
00:25:22,450 --> 00:25:24,570
Do you have crop residuals

473
00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:26,763
and do you plant some annual pastures?

474
00:25:28,692 --> 00:25:31,510
I know some of our sheep farmers
in New York are very good

475
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:34,320
about renovating their like one 10th

476
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,500
of their pastures every year.

477
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:39,371
And so they'll take those
pastures that they're renovating

478
00:25:39,371 --> 00:25:42,662
and they'll disc them and
plan them in annual pastures

479
00:25:42,662 --> 00:25:45,680
for a season.

480
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,200
And that way you'll like
your King's AgriSeeds makes

481
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,525
your crazy, I forget
crazy who mix and stuff.

482
00:25:54,525 --> 00:25:59,170
That's got some cowpeas
in it and sunflowers

483
00:25:59,170 --> 00:26:03,120
and fast growing sorghums and stuff in it.

484
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,590
They'll put them on something like that

485
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:06,780
to help break the cycle.

486
00:26:06,780 --> 00:26:09,240
And often you would
use something like that

487
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,470
for your most vulnerable
animals for like for those lambs

488
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:14,660
or kids right after weaning

489
00:26:14,660 --> 00:26:17,810
who are gonna be very
susceptible to parasites

490
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:19,620
or your lactating animals.

491
00:26:19,620 --> 00:26:23,180
Also think about whether you
can disrupt the worm cycle

492
00:26:23,180 --> 00:26:26,210
by mowing the pasture extremely
short at the beginning

493
00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:27,640
of the rest period.

494
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,330
And again, I said that only
works when you don't have

495
00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:33,370
a lot of mulch that's gonna
be ending up being on there

496
00:26:33,370 --> 00:26:34,793
by you mowing it short.

497
00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:37,620
Can you graze another species on there

498
00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:38,760
during the rest period?

499
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,270
At our farm, we have a couple of horses.

500
00:26:43,270 --> 00:26:46,085
And so the horses graze
those pastures in between.

501
00:26:46,085 --> 00:26:51,085
And can you harvest a hay crop or baleage,

502
00:26:51,598 --> 00:26:56,470
we do have hay fields at our place.

503
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:59,950
And so our goats after weaning and stuff,

504
00:26:59,950 --> 00:27:03,910
most of our herd goes out
onto hayfield and we leave

505
00:27:03,910 --> 00:27:07,740
our conventional pastures
to rest until we come

506
00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:09,490
on them again in the fall.

507
00:27:09,490 --> 00:27:11,949
But a lot of people don't have a hayfield,

508
00:27:11,949 --> 00:27:15,870
don't have that ability
to have hay harvested.

509
00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:18,595
I know I'm getting a lot of questions.

510
00:27:18,595 --> 00:27:23,595
I'll go into those in a minute and next.

511
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,800
Do you have some pasture
alternatives you can go onto?

512
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,040
So if I was in California or Texas,

513
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,210
I would usually be saying,
hey, can you get them out

514
00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:37,660
on the browse or the brush.

515
00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:40,410
But in the Northeast, US,
particularly in New York,

516
00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:42,400
but more and more in other states,

517
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,970
we have a lot of problem
with the deer worm,

518
00:27:44,970 --> 00:27:49,970
as we discussed last
week and even though 80%

519
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:51,710
of your other worms live

520
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:53,880
in the first two inches of vegetation.

521
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,720
So you don't have a lot of
problem with barber pole worm

522
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,480
when you go out on browse.

523
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,240
Unfortunately you run a
higher risk of deer worm.

524
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,170
And so if you are gonna use browse,

525
00:28:04,170 --> 00:28:06,850
try and use it at a time
of year that you think

526
00:28:06,850 --> 00:28:10,590
your deer worm risk is
gonna be fairly low,

527
00:28:10,590 --> 00:28:12,560
use it when you don't think
there's gonna be a lot

528
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,960
of snails out there.

529
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,350
And unfortunately your
brush snails that can get

530
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:21,440
about two feet up high on
brush, they can get deer worm.

531
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,854
And so you have to consider that,

532
00:28:25,854 --> 00:28:28,630
but during the drier times of the year,

533
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:31,327
you can go ahead and you're fairly safe

534
00:28:31,327 --> 00:28:36,327
to be grazing your brush and
also I'll talk about it later.

535
00:28:36,530 --> 00:28:40,500
It appears to be that sometimes
grazing high-tannin forges

536
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,770
can help reduce the effects of parasites.

537
00:28:42,770 --> 00:28:45,476
And we'll talk about
that more later, next.

538
00:28:45,476 --> 00:28:50,140
I'm gonna, okay, I'm gonna
talk about the Barnyard Effect

539
00:28:50,140 --> 00:28:54,112
and then I'll address some
of the questions we have.

540
00:28:54,112 --> 00:28:58,840
So barnyards are really any
small pasture or barnyard

541
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,657
you have that has good forage in it.

542
00:29:01,657 --> 00:29:06,290
So it has a high
concentration of manure in it,

543
00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:08,890
which means it's got usually
got a high concentration

544
00:29:08,890 --> 00:29:11,080
of internal parasites in it.

545
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,440
And unfortunately it also
has good grazing there.

546
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,607
So your goats and sheep are
gonna tend to wanna graze there.

547
00:29:18,607 --> 00:29:23,481
And this can contribute greatly
to the herd contamination,

548
00:29:23,481 --> 00:29:28,098
to your herd's contamination
with internal parasites.

549
00:29:28,098 --> 00:29:32,240
We used to bring our animals in at night

550
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,703
and we'd have a little pad,
great little, little paddock

551
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,930
outside besides the barn.

552
00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:41,850
And they would go out there and graze.

553
00:29:41,850 --> 00:29:45,040
And that was a real problem
for us parasite wise.

554
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,410
And I've worked with one
organic farm here in New York

555
00:29:48,410 --> 00:29:50,930
where it's a major problem.

556
00:29:50,930 --> 00:29:53,450
They really wanna bring
the animals in at night.

557
00:29:53,450 --> 00:29:57,880
So they bring them just to
keep them safe from predators.

558
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,930
So they bring them into a
two-acre area every night.

559
00:30:00,930 --> 00:30:04,030
So even though they're rotating
their pastures at night,

560
00:30:04,030 --> 00:30:07,087
that stops and the animals
don't stop grazing at night

561
00:30:07,087 --> 00:30:08,760
or early in the morning.

562
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,170
And so look at those areas
and decide if you really need

563
00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:14,470
them or not and is there a way

564
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:16,030
to fence your animals out of it?

565
00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:19,206
And in our case, we ended
up making another barnyard

566
00:30:19,206 --> 00:30:23,560
that's in front of our barn
where our septic systems are.

567
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,620
Ours has no forage in it.

568
00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:29,240
And we use those for our animals
instead if we feel we need

569
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,220
to bring them in at night
during the grazing season.

570
00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:36,130
Okay and you can also have a
barnyard effect in pastures

571
00:30:36,130 --> 00:30:39,110
that border the barn
and aren't being rotated

572
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:42,630
or that you're using early
in the spring for lamming

573
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:46,160
and kidding in, things like that.

574
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Next slide.

575
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,950
Okay, rotational grazing
in the spring does appear

576
00:30:51,950 --> 00:30:55,700
to reduce your barnyard
effect and delay the onset

577
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,040
of your summer parasite problems.

578
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,040
And we did a study in
quite a few years ago,

579
00:31:03,541 --> 00:31:08,286
just an informal study
in New York and Vermont,

580
00:31:08,286 --> 00:31:13,286
where we had one farm that
wouldn't rotate at all.

581
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:19,120
And then two other farms that
were rotating in the spring.

582
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,840
And then the plan had been
that we were going to take

583
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,670
those animals that were rotating
in the spring and summer,

584
00:31:27,670 --> 00:31:30,060
early summer and they
would go on to hayfield

585
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:31,910
or on the brush pastures.

586
00:31:31,910 --> 00:31:34,410
And then these pastures that were rotating

587
00:31:34,410 --> 00:31:37,660
or that weren't rotating, we
would compare what happened,

588
00:31:37,660 --> 00:31:41,313
but we had to, next slide.

589
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:47,540
We had problems with the study
and this is New York State.

590
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,020
But the same thing happened
in Vermont where the farm

591
00:31:51,020 --> 00:31:55,370
that was doing no rotation
by late, late July,

592
00:31:55,370 --> 00:32:00,370
they were having deaths
in their wean lamb,

593
00:32:00,530 --> 00:32:02,063
in their lambs and kids.

594
00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:04,189
Actually, this was all with goats.

595
00:32:04,189 --> 00:32:06,550
So they were having
death in the goat kids,

596
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:08,590
even though in previous
years, they hadn't,

597
00:32:08,590 --> 00:32:12,580
but the population of goats on
the land had just gotten high

598
00:32:12,580 --> 00:32:16,400
enough that even though they
were grazing quite a few acres,

599
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,247
I would say probably 50
does on 25, 30 acres,

600
00:32:23,530 --> 00:32:25,460
they were having a horrible worm problem.

601
00:32:25,460 --> 00:32:27,610
You can see that their
strongyle giant worm counts

602
00:32:27,610 --> 00:32:31,790
were almost 24,000 worm eggs
per grant versus the ones

603
00:32:31,790 --> 00:32:32,800
that were rotating.

604
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,020
And these were not doing long rest periods

605
00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:36,350
in their rotations.

606
00:32:36,350 --> 00:32:38,850
They were more practicing
intensive grazing

607
00:32:38,850 --> 00:32:43,687
where they were staying off
of a pasture for 35 days max.

608
00:32:43,687 --> 00:32:46,130
They too had a lot of worms.

609
00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:49,500
They had like 3,500 or 2000 worm eggs.

610
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:52,520
And they were pretty eager
to go on to their hayfields

611
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,750
or their brush pastures at this point.

612
00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:57,373
But they were having no
deaths in animals yet.

613
00:32:58,610 --> 00:33:02,026
It definitely was very
helpful to do rotating

614
00:33:02,026 --> 00:33:04,373
versus continuous grazing.

615
00:33:05,310 --> 00:33:07,070
Okay. Next slide.

616
00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:11,360
Okay, so some options to help
reduce this barnyard effect,

617
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,240
see if you can do any of these.

618
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,130
In some cases you can
lay down gravel, concrete

619
00:33:16,130 --> 00:33:18,770
or herbicides in your barnyard.

620
00:33:18,770 --> 00:33:23,300
I had one of my veterinarians,
Mary Smith, told me

621
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:25,830
to do that and I asked
her, who's paying for it?

622
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:28,532
And went, nope, that's not an option here.

623
00:33:28,532 --> 00:33:31,355
You can close off access to the barnyard.

624
00:33:31,355 --> 00:33:33,920
And that's what we
decided to do at our farm.

625
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,500
We just made, well, actually,

626
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,030
I guess we did the third one
and I'll talk about that.

627
00:33:38,030 --> 00:33:42,170
Or we came up with new
barnyards or can you provide hay

628
00:33:42,170 --> 00:33:44,735
in the barn at night when you're bringing

629
00:33:44,735 --> 00:33:46,940
the animals back in if you
do bring them in at night

630
00:33:46,940 --> 00:33:49,550
to cut down on the amount
of night grazing you get

631
00:33:49,550 --> 00:33:51,190
in those barnyards.

632
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:54,050
And then what we did at our
farm is we made the barnyard

633
00:33:54,050 --> 00:33:57,860
so small that no grazing
could occur in them.

634
00:33:57,860 --> 00:33:59,940
The animals could graze for like one day

635
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:02,830
and then they'd wiped out
all that it was there.

636
00:34:02,830 --> 00:34:04,380
And so that's what we initially did.

637
00:34:04,380 --> 00:34:06,901
And then I said is later on, we built,

638
00:34:06,901 --> 00:34:08,810
we made another barnyard
and then more and more

639
00:34:08,810 --> 00:34:13,210
what we do nowadays is we just
leave the animals out 24/7.

640
00:34:13,210 --> 00:34:15,570
They, they don't come back in.

641
00:34:15,570 --> 00:34:17,670
Okay. Next slide.

642
00:34:17,670 --> 00:34:20,320
Okay. Alright.

643
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,770
So I'm gonna answer some
of the questions now

644
00:34:23,959 --> 00:34:24,809
that are in chat.

645
00:34:31,412 --> 00:34:32,245
Okay.

646
00:34:37,240 --> 00:34:40,218
Yeah, we all have the
thunderstorms going on

647
00:34:40,218 --> 00:34:44,030
and I probably should turn
off my video actually,

648
00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:45,213
that might help here.

649
00:34:47,740 --> 00:34:50,550
And I'm forgetting how far

650
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:53,746
they can really crawl
horizontally on the land,

651
00:34:53,746 --> 00:34:56,410
but it's not very far, (indistinct).

652
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,080
Like I said, I think it's about two feet,

653
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,880
sometimes five feet, if
there's water movement,

654
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,430
they can go quite far
on the water movement.

655
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:09,420
So if you've got a big manure
pile outside of your barn

656
00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:12,560
right there in the pasture
and you've got rain,

657
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,070
then you know that manure
as well as those larva

658
00:35:17,070 --> 00:35:19,268
can move quite far.

659
00:35:19,268 --> 00:35:21,810
And so, I mean,

660
00:35:26,330 --> 00:35:29,000
there's definitely gonna
be a lot less worms

661
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,240
in that adjacent area that your
goat isn't directly pooping

662
00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:35,993
in than there is right in the barnyard.

663
00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:39,803
So I'm not sure I would
worry that much about it.

664
00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:43,180
So yes, they can crawl
up broad-leave plants,

665
00:35:43,180 --> 00:35:46,373
but generally not as well and as far.

666
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:53,630
You can bring chickens in,
but if the sheep having grazed

667
00:35:55,230 --> 00:35:58,089
the pasture really short,
then the chicken scratching

668
00:35:58,089 --> 00:36:02,270
the faces, the fecal pellets,

669
00:36:02,270 --> 00:36:04,083
isn't gonna be that much help.

670
00:36:06,134 --> 00:36:10,110
But often if you do
bring your chickens in,

671
00:36:10,110 --> 00:36:13,610
they will scratch fecal pellets,
they just won't get enough

672
00:36:13,610 --> 00:36:14,590
of your fecal pellets.

673
00:36:14,590 --> 00:36:18,880
If you've got a really small, small flock,

674
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,870
then it can be helpful but
otherwise it's probably

675
00:36:21,870 --> 00:36:23,930
not a real major help.

676
00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:28,930
And we certainly have a lot of
farms that do pasture poultry

677
00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:33,670
that also have barber pole
worm issues and stuff at time,

678
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:36,040
but it can help a little.

679
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,040
And yes, I mean they probably
do, the L-3 is so small

680
00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:46,510
that I don't know if they
specifically try to eat it,

681
00:36:46,510 --> 00:36:48,760
but yeah, I mean they
are helpful that way.

682
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,000
And mostly they're helpful by breaking up

683
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,715
those fecal pellets.

684
00:36:53,715 --> 00:36:57,770
So the recommendations
for grazing height out

685
00:36:57,770 --> 00:37:01,453
and regrowth time, I'm confused by that.

686
00:37:01,453 --> 00:37:05,420
So normally we would be
saying, you wanna move animals

687
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:08,903
out of a pasture before
they start doing much eating

688
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,370
of the regrowth.

689
00:37:11,370 --> 00:37:14,930
So there'll be like a four-day
rule is what Woody Lane,

690
00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:18,600
one of the more famous
pasture management people

691
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,890
will say that you wanna
move them out of there

692
00:37:20,890 --> 00:37:21,950
in about four days

693
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:24,610
'cause after that they
start grazing the regrowth.

694
00:37:24,610 --> 00:37:26,990
You always have to look
at it economically.

695
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:29,450
A goat dairy may be
moving them out every day

696
00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:33,020
because if they're
commercially selling that milk

697
00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:36,167
because for nutrition and everything,

698
00:37:36,167 --> 00:37:41,083
that fresh forage every
day can be helpful.

699
00:37:41,083 --> 00:37:44,375
If you've got a meat goat
operation or something,

700
00:37:44,375 --> 00:37:48,840
or a Meat Cheap, then the
time and labor it takes

701
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,380
to move them out daily,
it is gonna be even hard

702
00:37:52,380 --> 00:37:54,120
to justify that seven days.

703
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,500
But as I said, it's more
at four to five days.

704
00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:01,060
And then when we talk
about pasture height,

705
00:38:01,060 --> 00:38:04,230
it's more a matter of the
maturity of your pasture.

706
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:08,270
You're trying to keep your
pasture from getting too mature

707
00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:12,547
from flowering and the
stems getting lignified.

708
00:38:15,690 --> 00:38:19,360
So it's hard to say it
depends on the plant species

709
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,360
and everything, but usually
I mean early in the season,

710
00:38:26,229 --> 00:38:31,229
I'm not too worried if my
pasture gets down to four inches.

711
00:38:31,820 --> 00:38:34,603
But just within a few
weeks, like right now,

712
00:38:36,616 --> 00:38:41,616
my pastures are getting
so tall at that keeping up

713
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:44,354
with the next pasture, I'm
probably moving my animals

714
00:38:44,354 --> 00:38:47,090
at five or six inches.

715
00:38:47,090 --> 00:38:49,569
And I'm bringing them
into pastures right now

716
00:38:49,569 --> 00:38:52,930
that are already hitting
eight to 10 inches.

717
00:38:52,930 --> 00:38:57,560
So Betsy might have some advice there.

718
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,460
And then the big thing is,

719
00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:02,500
that regrowth time, normally regrowth

720
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:03,830
on an intensive system,

721
00:39:03,830 --> 00:39:07,396
we would be talking about
coming back in 28 or 35 days

722
00:39:07,396 --> 00:39:09,880
during the peak of the grazing season.

723
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,490
And then later as you get
into the fall and things

724
00:39:12,490 --> 00:39:14,259
are growing slower.

725
00:39:14,259 --> 00:39:19,259
But as I said for dealing
with barber pole worm,

726
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,183
you need a lot longer rest period.

727
00:39:23,490 --> 00:39:26,840
One thing to keep in mind
with invasive buckthorn

728
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,580
is that some farms do not
have much trouble with it

729
00:39:29,580 --> 00:39:33,300
as a poison, but other farms
do have problems with it

730
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:35,514
as a poison if their
animals aren't used to it

731
00:39:35,514 --> 00:39:38,430
and their animals eat a
lot of it all at one time.

732
00:39:38,430 --> 00:39:41,653
We've lost sheep at
the Cornell Sheep Farm,

733
00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:45,440
at the teaching farm, right
on campus to buckthorn

734
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,830
versus I have goats and sheep
or goats out at my farm.

735
00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:51,180
And I know a lot of people with sheep

736
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:52,650
who don't have much trouble.

737
00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:56,020
So just keep in mind that
buckthorn can be toxic.

738
00:39:56,020 --> 00:39:58,670
And then someone was saying
that the Vermont Agency

739
00:39:58,670 --> 00:40:03,358
of Ag is starting to fund wood
chip pads for your barnyards

740
00:40:03,358 --> 00:40:06,400
through the BMP program.

741
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,040
So I'm not sure what BMP stands for.

742
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,890
It might be some sort of
equip program or something.

743
00:40:12,890 --> 00:40:15,500
And so Kelsey, people
are asking if they can

744
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,170
and you've given them a link.

745
00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:18,480
All right. Great.

746
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,820
All right. So I'm gonna get
back to the other stuff now,

747
00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:23,600
if that's okay.

748
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,600
And okay, so one thing we
talked about how L-4 larva,

749
00:40:30,418 --> 00:40:34,960
barber pole L-4 larva can
make a decision on whether

750
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,960
to over-winter or not when
it gets into an animal,

751
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,680
whether to go into hibernation or not

752
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,580
or whether to become an adult.

753
00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:47,740
And many of your other
strongyle worms also have

754
00:40:47,740 --> 00:40:49,570
to make this decision.

755
00:40:49,570 --> 00:40:51,863
And it's sometimes called hypobiosis.

756
00:40:53,333 --> 00:40:58,333
And so often what happens is
they do make that decision

757
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,330
to over-winter as a dormant L-4,

758
00:41:01,330 --> 00:41:04,090
barber pole worm typically does this.

759
00:41:04,090 --> 00:41:08,020
And then what happens is
there's an estrogen surge

760
00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:11,163
in the host animal, in your
sheep and goats at birthing,

761
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,230
just as part of birthing,
estrogen is released.

762
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:20,400
And unfortunately the adult female worms

763
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,230
have estrogen receptors.

764
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:26,910
So they are aware of when
you get that estrogen surge

765
00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:30,770
in your sheep and goats at
that kidding and lambing

766
00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:34,550
and that triggers these
L-4 larva to become adults

767
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:37,318
and to mate and start producing eggs.

768
00:41:37,318 --> 00:41:41,935
Also, additionally, the
immune system is compromised

769
00:41:41,935 --> 00:41:45,980
by parturition and late gestation.

770
00:41:45,980 --> 00:41:50,590
And it can also be and
that early peak lactation,

771
00:41:50,590 --> 00:41:54,540
all of those compromise the immune system

772
00:41:54,540 --> 00:41:56,260
and illness can also do that.

773
00:41:56,260 --> 00:41:59,100
And so those also trigger L-4 larva

774
00:41:59,100 --> 00:42:00,753
to break out of dormancy.

775
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,790
And as I said, other strongyle worms,

776
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:07,920
the same phenomena occurs,
but they have the option

777
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,073
of also over-wintering pretty
easily outside, next slide.

778
00:42:14,210 --> 00:42:19,140
And this was a study that Dr.
Jim Weber did at University

779
00:42:19,140 --> 00:42:23,080
of Maine where he took the
flock of Icelandic sheep

780
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,590
that they used to have at the university.

781
00:42:25,590 --> 00:42:29,880
And I believe they had been
dewormed as they came off

782
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,160
of pasture and I'm not
sure if that's right

783
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,590
when this is occurring or
whether they get were dewormed

784
00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:39,090
and then had come back
up to a thousand worms.

785
00:42:39,090 --> 00:42:40,780
But at any rate over the winter,

786
00:42:40,780 --> 00:42:43,070
the worm load was way down.

787
00:42:43,070 --> 00:42:46,720
They had essentially no
worms inside the barn.

788
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:51,720
And then as the animals
started to lamb in the spring,

789
00:42:51,730 --> 00:42:56,730
in March, they started
those L-4 larva hatched out

790
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:59,214
or excuse me became adults.

791
00:42:59,214 --> 00:43:02,670
And so they started laying eggs.

792
00:43:02,670 --> 00:43:05,430
And so you started getting
a lot of egg laying going on

793
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:09,440
and their fecal egg
counts went way up. Okay.

794
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,180
And then they took half
the herd and half the herd

795
00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:15,690
went out to pasture May 15th.

796
00:43:15,690 --> 00:43:17,938
And that half that went out May 15th,

797
00:43:17,938 --> 00:43:20,640
they got out on pasture
and for a little while

798
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,550
their worm counts were down as they got

799
00:43:23,550 --> 00:43:25,150
on those nice clean pastures.

800
00:43:25,150 --> 00:43:27,720
And then they rapidly went back up again.

801
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:32,720
Those eggs, they started
laying eggs again,

802
00:43:33,950 --> 00:43:35,290
getting more contaminated.

803
00:43:35,290 --> 00:43:37,550
The pastures got more contaminated

804
00:43:37,550 --> 00:43:40,270
and the worm loads went
way, way up than amount

805
00:43:41,152 --> 00:43:44,770
of eggs per gram in the
feces versus the other half

806
00:43:44,770 --> 00:43:47,224
of the flock they kept in the barn

807
00:43:47,224 --> 00:43:50,088
while they were going through this peak,

808
00:43:50,088 --> 00:43:55,088
this surge of adult worms
you get after kidding

809
00:43:55,345 --> 00:43:59,590
or after lambing and
this surge of egg laying

810
00:43:59,590 --> 00:44:01,550
that you get, that these worms go through

811
00:44:01,550 --> 00:44:03,530
when they get all that estrogen.

812
00:44:03,530 --> 00:44:05,090
And they left those in the barn

813
00:44:05,090 --> 00:44:08,300
and they just naturally dropped
down 'cause in the barn,

814
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:11,160
they couldn't get
recontaminated very easily.

815
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,420
So the counts dropped, the
counts dropped drastically

816
00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:18,630
and then the animals went out
to pasture about June 15th.

817
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:23,390
And they were taking that
manure was being removed

818
00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:24,750
from the barn.

819
00:44:24,750 --> 00:44:29,750
No, actually no, I think
they were on a bedded pack,

820
00:44:29,888 --> 00:44:33,440
but he said that they
weren't able to contaminate

821
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,630
their mangers very easily.

822
00:44:35,630 --> 00:44:39,464
And then the worms stayed
down for much of the grazing,

823
00:44:39,464 --> 00:44:42,960
much of the heavy grazing season.

824
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,850
And then they did by August,
they were going back up again.

825
00:44:46,850 --> 00:44:50,930
Okay. So then he was saying,
if farmers could afford to keep

826
00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:53,615
their animals in the barn
until June 15th in May,

827
00:44:53,615 --> 00:44:55,680
he would recommend that.

828
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,530
But most farmers were
saying, there's just no way

829
00:44:58,530 --> 00:45:00,683
I can keep them in the barn that long.

830
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,490
But it does sort of indicate
how important this spring rise

831
00:45:06,490 --> 00:45:11,433
in worm and egg laying is
this rise in egg laying right

832
00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:17,990
at lambing and kidding is
on infecting your animals

833
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:20,370
and infecting your pastures.

834
00:45:20,370 --> 00:45:21,403
Okay. Next.

835
00:45:23,490 --> 00:45:27,120
So now we're gonna talk
about your immune response

836
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,390
and keep in mind always that
good nutrition stimulates

837
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:31,950
the immune system.

838
00:45:31,950 --> 00:45:34,970
Good nutrition is one of
the big things you can help

839
00:45:34,970 --> 00:45:38,160
to boost the immune
system of your animals.

840
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,350
And then there's also many
trace minerals, such as zinc,

841
00:45:42,350 --> 00:45:46,310
zinc, selenium and copper
that are very, very involved

842
00:45:46,310 --> 00:45:48,250
in the immune system.

843
00:45:48,250 --> 00:45:52,402
And of course too much
copper is toxic to sheep.

844
00:45:52,402 --> 00:45:55,080
So you have to be very
limited in how much copper

845
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,450
you're giving your sheep.

846
00:45:56,450 --> 00:45:59,622
And then vitamin E also
plays a very important role

847
00:45:59,622 --> 00:46:02,510
in the development of the immune system.

848
00:46:02,510 --> 00:46:04,240
And keep in mind, like I said earlier,

849
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,040
that when goats and sheep are lactating

850
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,433
or in late pregnancy, that
immune system is suppressed.

851
00:46:11,010 --> 00:46:13,901
And they found that if you're
able to boost the immune,

852
00:46:13,901 --> 00:46:18,901
the nutritional diet of
ewes in late pregnancy,

853
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:21,596
so that they're getting 130%

854
00:46:21,596 --> 00:46:25,914
of their daily protein
requirements, that this does reduce

855
00:46:25,914 --> 00:46:28,000
that spring rise.

856
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,820
It reduces the flush of
egg laying and they think

857
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:32,570
it's primarily because the animals

858
00:46:32,570 --> 00:46:36,680
have really good immune
systems going into lambing.

859
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,680
And so therefore the L-4
larva don't get those triggers

860
00:46:41,970 --> 00:46:44,393
to go ahead and do a frenzy of egg laying.

861
00:46:45,610 --> 00:46:48,820
So keep that in mind that late
pregnancy isn't necessarily

862
00:46:48,820 --> 00:46:53,820
a time to go low on your
protein that you actually can.

863
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:58,670
There are some advantages to going at 130%

864
00:46:58,670 --> 00:47:02,370
of the daily requirements
for a late pregnancy animal.

865
00:47:02,370 --> 00:47:04,640
And then at the University
of Rhode Island,

866
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,820
they did a study where
they looked at in 2007,

867
00:47:08,820 --> 00:47:12,980
the National Resource
Council had greatly upped

868
00:47:12,980 --> 00:47:17,160
the amount of vitamin E
they said that sheep needed

869
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,830
and this would be the same for goats.

870
00:47:18,830 --> 00:47:20,470
And so they upped the requirements.

871
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:23,650
So what University of Rhode
Island did is they compared

872
00:47:23,650 --> 00:47:26,800
the old requirements
to the new requirements

873
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,790
and Cornell had calculated out Doug Hogan,

874
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:34,010
Mike Tony had calculated
out that you would meet

875
00:47:34,010 --> 00:47:38,340
the NRC requirements,
the new requirements,

876
00:47:38,340 --> 00:47:41,839
if you put 10 international
units of vitamin E

877
00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:46,839
per kilogram live weight
in the creep feed of lambs

878
00:47:46,969 --> 00:47:51,230
versus the old requirement
which would've been

879
00:47:51,230 --> 00:47:54,770
about five international units vitamin E

880
00:47:54,770 --> 00:47:56,950
per kilogram of live weight.

881
00:47:56,950 --> 00:48:00,480
And so they attempted to do
that with their creep feed.

882
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,540
And then they artificially
infected the lambs,

883
00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:06,207
these ween lambs with
barber pole worm larva.

884
00:48:06,207 --> 00:48:09,860
And they found that the
lambs that got the twice

885
00:48:09,860 --> 00:48:14,150
as much vitamin E had
about half as many fecal,

886
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:16,900
their fecal egg count
for barber pole worm was

887
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:18,350
about half as much.

888
00:48:18,350 --> 00:48:23,220
And so that's one reason
why we do recommend sticking

889
00:48:23,220 --> 00:48:26,428
with that higher amount
of vitamin E supplement

890
00:48:26,428 --> 00:48:29,805
in your trace minerals or
your creep feed if you can

891
00:48:29,805 --> 00:48:31,740
for your lambs.

892
00:48:31,740 --> 00:48:35,106
Next study and same thing with goat kids.

893
00:48:35,106 --> 00:48:40,106
Genetic resistance, the
susceptibility of animals,

894
00:48:41,476 --> 00:48:44,250
your sheep and goats getting infected

895
00:48:44,250 --> 00:48:47,350
with your strongyle
worms is greatly affected

896
00:48:47,350 --> 00:48:51,430
by the environment and
genetics and the heritability

897
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:54,597
for genetic resistance to
strongyle worms in sheep

898
00:48:54,597 --> 00:48:58,673
and goats appears to be
similar to the heritability

899
00:48:59,903 --> 00:49:04,070
of milk yield in dairy cattle.

900
00:49:04,070 --> 00:49:06,240
So it's like in dairy cattle, it means

901
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:08,025
that it does require a lot of records

902
00:49:08,025 --> 00:49:13,025
because the heritability
is only about 0.25 or 0.3.

903
00:49:15,164 --> 00:49:20,164
And so it does require a lot of records.

904
00:49:20,978 --> 00:49:24,870
So it would be more comparing
the fecal egg counts

905
00:49:24,870 --> 00:49:29,657
of offsprings of different
sires rather than the comparing

906
00:49:29,657 --> 00:49:34,657
the fecal egg counts of
individual litters to each other.

907
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,980
you more wanna have different
sires that you can compare.

908
00:49:38,980 --> 00:49:41,290
And the National Sheep
Improvement Program,

909
00:49:41,290 --> 00:49:45,602
NSIP as part of their
on-farm genetic testing,

910
00:49:45,602 --> 00:49:50,602
they do have traits in there
for looking at fecal egg counts

911
00:49:51,210 --> 00:49:55,040
and trying to breed
for dewormer resistance

912
00:49:56,110 --> 00:49:57,690
in your sheep and goats.

913
00:49:57,690 --> 00:49:58,623
Next slide.

914
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:02,890
And so this is just the
two traits they have.

915
00:50:02,890 --> 00:50:05,100
One is fecal egg counts at weaning,

916
00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:08,060
and one is fecal egg count post weaning.

917
00:50:08,060 --> 00:50:10,910
And if you look at their
website, it explains it more,

918
00:50:10,910 --> 00:50:15,650
but the (indistinct) and Sheep Association

919
00:50:15,650 --> 00:50:19,251
has really embraced this and
is making a lot of headway

920
00:50:19,251 --> 00:50:23,822
on parasite resistance in their animals.

921
00:50:23,822 --> 00:50:27,460
We have very few if any meat goat farms,

922
00:50:27,460 --> 00:50:30,390
I think enrolled on NSIP right now,

923
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:31,750
but if you were to enroll,

924
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:34,430
this would be one of the
advantages of doing it,

925
00:50:34,430 --> 00:50:35,599
but you have to find a way

926
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:37,980
to get your fecal egg counts done for you.

927
00:50:37,980 --> 00:50:40,964
I know for University of
Rhode Island for a while

928
00:50:40,964 --> 00:50:43,572
and I think they may still
be doing it. I'm not sure.

929
00:50:43,572 --> 00:50:48,060
But for flocks in the Northeast, US flocks

930
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:52,760
and herds of sheep and
goats in the Northeast, US

931
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,730
they were, especially if
you were enrolled in NSIP,

932
00:50:56,730 --> 00:50:59,706
they were doing fecal egg counts for free

933
00:50:59,706 --> 00:51:03,450
for farms that were specifically looking

934
00:51:03,450 --> 00:51:04,670
at these two traits.

935
00:51:04,670 --> 00:51:06,490
So they would do them
right at weaning for you

936
00:51:06,490 --> 00:51:08,020
and then post weaning.

937
00:51:08,020 --> 00:51:11,620
Otherwise, learning how to
do them yourself is good,

938
00:51:11,620 --> 00:51:14,293
but it's time consuming, next.

939
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:22,510
Oh, go back one.

940
00:51:22,510 --> 00:51:24,410
Can you go back one, Betsy? I'm sorry.

941
00:51:25,570 --> 00:51:30,090
Okay. So the mechanism of
getting the immune system

942
00:51:30,090 --> 00:51:33,080
to function or a biological resistance.

943
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,744
The animal's immune
system needs to recognize

944
00:51:35,744 --> 00:51:39,464
that there's a parasite
infection occurring

945
00:51:39,464 --> 00:51:43,510
and how quickly the animal
recognizes this varies

946
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:46,817
between breeds and also between
individuals within a breed.

947
00:51:46,817 --> 00:51:50,990
And then the second thing
is the immune system has

948
00:51:50,990 --> 00:51:53,890
to be able to mount an effective response.

949
00:51:53,890 --> 00:51:57,163
And again, the effectiveness
varies between individuals

950
00:51:57,163 --> 00:52:01,150
and within individuals between breeds

951
00:52:01,150 --> 00:52:04,533
and then within individuals
in a breed, next.

952
00:52:06,670 --> 00:52:09,946
So this is a study they did
at West Virginia University,

953
00:52:09,946 --> 00:52:12,620
where they looked at Saint Croix sheep

954
00:52:12,620 --> 00:52:14,720
and they looked at Suffolk sheep.

955
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,590
And what they did with both sets of sheep

956
00:52:18,590 --> 00:52:23,590
is they took three groups of
lambs and one group of lambs,

957
00:52:24,290 --> 00:52:29,290
which are these red ones had been exposed

958
00:52:31,290 --> 00:52:36,290
to barber pole worm by
artificial infection once.

959
00:52:39,380 --> 00:52:42,930
And then they were exposing
them a second time.

960
00:52:42,930 --> 00:52:46,563
Okay. And that, excuse me, I'm wrong.

961
00:52:47,417 --> 00:52:51,480
This red line are animals
that were being exposed

962
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,410
for the first time.

963
00:52:52,410 --> 00:52:56,330
So they gave them the barber
pole worms here at day zero.

964
00:52:56,330 --> 00:52:58,910
And then two weeks later,
the animals started,

965
00:52:58,910 --> 00:53:03,320
the worms had become adults
and started to lay eggs.

966
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,090
And the worm counts went
way up until they got

967
00:53:06,090 --> 00:53:07,920
to about 3000 worm eggs.

968
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,780
And then the animals realized
that wait, I'd been infected

969
00:53:11,780 --> 00:53:16,780
and they mounted an attack on,

970
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:20,590
their immune system mounted an attack.

971
00:53:20,590 --> 00:53:25,320
And the worms, the egg
load went way, way down

972
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,300
and then blue, which
you can't see are lambs

973
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:33,090
that weren't infected at all
with the barber pole worm.

974
00:53:33,090 --> 00:53:35,554
And then the green are the second time

975
00:53:35,554 --> 00:53:37,450
these lambs were infected.

976
00:53:37,450 --> 00:53:39,880
So this is the first
time they were infected.

977
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,270
And then the second
time they were infected

978
00:53:42,270 --> 00:53:46,400
the Saint Croix sheep instantly realized

979
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:47,779
that they had been infected

980
00:53:47,779 --> 00:53:52,779
and their immune system
instantly attacked those worms.

981
00:53:54,060 --> 00:53:57,869
And they didn't get, they
had no worm count increase

982
00:53:57,869 --> 00:54:02,187
versus when they looked at
theirs Suffolk crossbred lambs,

983
00:54:02,187 --> 00:54:04,850
this is the first time they were infected.

984
00:54:04,850 --> 00:54:06,610
And you can see it took them

985
00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:10,580
to until they got 7,000 worm
eggs before they realized that,

986
00:54:10,580 --> 00:54:13,430
oh my gosh, I've been infected with worms.

987
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:18,040
And they mounted up very quickly in them.

988
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,410
So sort of that same two-week
period, they realized, oh,

989
00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:22,730
I've been infected.

990
00:54:22,730 --> 00:54:24,350
So they realized it pretty quickly,

991
00:54:24,350 --> 00:54:26,640
but they had a really high load by then.

992
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,930
And then it plateaued,
it took them a while

993
00:54:28,930 --> 00:54:31,370
for their immune system really to kick in.

994
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:34,130
And then even when the
immune system kicked in,

995
00:54:34,130 --> 00:54:37,035
eventually the worms
recovered and started laying

996
00:54:37,035 --> 00:54:39,940
a lot of eggs again.

997
00:54:39,940 --> 00:54:42,600
And for their naive ones, they stayed down

998
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,370
'cause they were never infected.

999
00:54:44,370 --> 00:54:47,380
And the second time they
were infected, yes, it took

1000
00:54:47,380 --> 00:54:52,050
these lambs were able to realize
they were infected earlier

1001
00:54:52,050 --> 00:54:54,820
on and they were able to mount

1002
00:54:54,820 --> 00:54:57,300
a more successful immune response.

1003
00:54:57,300 --> 00:55:00,240
But even then it went
back up and you can see

1004
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:05,240
when we look at the worm eggs attacking,

1005
00:55:05,980 --> 00:55:09,683
which unfortunately I guess
this isn't gonna work.

1006
00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:12,700
Oh yeah. Can you do it for me?

1007
00:55:12,700 --> 00:55:15,070
Yeah. You have to do it, right.

1008
00:55:15,070 --> 00:55:18,800
You can see on the Saint
Croix as those cells attack

1009
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,850
that barber pole worm in a
Petri dish, those immune cells,

1010
00:55:22,850 --> 00:55:25,899
they're able to keep that
worm from moving around much

1011
00:55:25,899 --> 00:55:29,820
at all, versus on the
Suffolk, go ahead and click

1012
00:55:29,820 --> 00:55:33,030
on the Suffolk now, Betsy.

1013
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:36,420
The worm is much more able to
flip itself around and stuff.

1014
00:55:36,420 --> 00:55:39,620
So you can see, it's probably
doing a lot more sucking

1015
00:55:39,620 --> 00:55:43,770
of blood from the abomasum
even though it's being attacked

1016
00:55:43,770 --> 00:55:48,770
than the worms in the
Saint Croix, next slide.

1017
00:55:52,810 --> 00:55:53,993
Okay.

1018
00:55:55,070 --> 00:55:57,384
So in traditional parasite control,

1019
00:55:57,384 --> 00:56:01,600
where it used to be that we would maximize

1020
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,446
that parasite control in the
hope that we would maximize

1021
00:56:04,446 --> 00:56:07,730
our production and theoretically help.

1022
00:56:07,730 --> 00:56:11,260
And you would deworm the
entire herd regularly in order

1023
00:56:11,260 --> 00:56:13,360
to meet the needs of the most vulnerable

1024
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,360
or most susceptible animals.

1025
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,520
And we would often rotate
those dewormers during the year

1026
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,140
or every year and each
time we would deworm

1027
00:56:22,140 --> 00:56:25,270
we'd move the animals
to a clean pasture so

1028
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:28,080
that they wouldn't be able
to reinfect themselves

1029
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,630
very easily from the original
worms in that grazing paddock.

1030
00:56:31,630 --> 00:56:33,140
And all of these practices,

1031
00:56:33,140 --> 00:56:35,860
unfortunately promote dewormer resistance

1032
00:56:35,860 --> 00:56:38,082
when it comes to the barber pole worm,

1033
00:56:38,082 --> 00:56:43,082
which has such a heavy
egg layer and has such

1034
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,630
a short generation interval.

1035
00:56:45,630 --> 00:56:49,560
And this has now become a huge
problem in the United States.

1036
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:50,503
Next slide.

1037
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:59,760
And this was a study we did
in 2007 with a set of New York

1038
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,400
and Pennsylvania goat herds.

1039
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,450
We took fecal egg counts right
before we deworm the animals.

1040
00:57:07,450 --> 00:57:10,770
And then seven to 10 days
after deworming the animals.

1041
00:57:10,770 --> 00:57:14,230
It was seven days if they
used Ivermectin and 10 days,

1042
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:16,670
if they used Safeguard.

1043
00:57:16,670 --> 00:57:18,360
And what we found with Safeguard,

1044
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,876
which would be your Fenbendazole here,

1045
00:57:20,876 --> 00:57:25,876
there were about six herds where
there was severe resistance

1046
00:57:27,140 --> 00:57:29,490
to the Safeguard.

1047
00:57:29,490 --> 00:57:30,968
In fact, in one of the herds,

1048
00:57:30,968 --> 00:57:35,820
the worms actually increased
their number of worm eggs

1049
00:57:35,820 --> 00:57:38,440
after being dewormed with the Safeguard.

1050
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,183
There were two herds that it
was still quite effective in

1051
00:57:41,183 --> 00:57:45,150
and then threes were there,
it was moderately effective.

1052
00:57:45,150 --> 00:57:47,739
Ivermectin third, a little better.

1053
00:57:47,739 --> 00:57:52,620
There were six herds out
of the 13 herds sampled

1054
00:57:52,620 --> 00:57:55,160
where it was still highly effective.

1055
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,130
But again, there were five herds

1056
00:57:57,130 --> 00:57:59,680
where it had severe resistance where

1057
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,360
it did not kill very
many of those adult worms

1058
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,560
when you compared the amount
of egg laying that was going

1059
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:10,177
on seven days after deworming
versus right at deworming.

1060
00:58:11,580 --> 00:58:14,760
And unfortunately this
herd here was my herd.

1061
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,570
So in my herd, Ivermectin was candy.

1062
00:58:17,570 --> 00:58:21,000
Okay. Next slide.

1063
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:22,710
So even in 2007,

1064
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:26,680
we had a pretty pronounced
problem with dewormer resistance

1065
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,466
in New York and Northern Pennsylvania.

1066
00:58:29,466 --> 00:58:34,466
So the big problem with the
traditional way of doing things

1067
00:58:36,050 --> 00:58:39,630
is it destroys the refugia
and the refugia is just

1068
00:58:39,630 --> 00:58:42,920
a fancy name for the proportion
of your worm population

1069
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,581
on your farm in your sheep and goat herd

1070
00:58:45,581 --> 00:58:49,580
that hasn't been exposed
to a dewormer treatment.

1071
00:58:49,580 --> 00:58:53,620
And so it would include the
worms in untreated animals,

1072
00:58:53,620 --> 00:58:56,020
in goats and sheep that
you haven't dewormed.

1073
00:58:56,020 --> 00:58:58,700
And also the worms in the
larva that over-wintered

1074
00:58:58,700 --> 00:59:01,430
in that pasture, that were in that pasture

1075
00:59:01,430 --> 00:59:05,040
before you gave your animals any dewormer.

1076
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,410
And unfortunately, it's very
hard to find a pool of genetics

1077
00:59:08,410 --> 00:59:11,359
in a herd in New York.

1078
00:59:11,359 --> 00:59:16,150
And in most of, probably most
of the US that where somewhere

1079
00:59:17,350 --> 00:59:20,780
back in that worm
genetics, there hasn't been

1080
00:59:20,780 --> 00:59:23,843
some deworming done or
a lot of deworming done.

1081
00:59:23,843 --> 00:59:26,200
So even if you're not deworming now,

1082
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,444
there are great, great,
great, great, great,

1083
00:59:29,444 --> 00:59:31,190
great grandparents got
exposed to a dewormer,

1084
00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:34,780
but primarily we're
talking about in this year,

1085
00:59:34,780 --> 00:59:38,160
who's been exposed to worms.

1086
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,320
And the good thing about
refugia is it does provide

1087
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,930
you a pool of genes that
are sensitive hopefully

1088
00:59:43,930 --> 00:59:45,390
to the dewormer.

1089
00:59:45,390 --> 00:59:48,640
And it dilutes the genes
that are resistant.

1090
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,600
So if you've got your susceptible
parents and you've got

1091
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:56,600
a couple of resistant parents
and they're gonna cross breed

1092
00:59:56,710 --> 00:59:59,850
with each other, but meanwhile
you've used your dewormer.

1093
00:59:59,850 --> 01:00:01,698
So you used your dewormer.

1094
01:00:01,698 --> 01:00:03,800
And before you used the dewormer,

1095
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,380
all of these were cross
breeding with each other.

1096
01:00:06,380 --> 01:00:10,410
So the genes, the resistant
genes from these worms here

1097
01:00:10,410 --> 01:00:13,260
were getting diluted by
all the susceptible genes

1098
01:00:13,260 --> 01:00:15,890
in these worms here, as
they were cross breeding.

1099
01:00:15,890 --> 01:00:18,949
But once you deworm, the
only generation that survived

1100
01:00:18,949 --> 01:00:23,949
were these resistant worms,
unless you spilled the dewormer

1101
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,387
on the ground, the animals
spit it out or something.

1102
01:00:26,387 --> 01:00:29,930
And so all you're getting
are these resistant worms,

1103
01:00:29,930 --> 01:00:31,750
crossbreeding with each other.

1104
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:34,660
And if you're now moving the
animals to a clean pasture

1105
01:00:34,660 --> 01:00:38,250
at this time, all the
breeding, all the worm eggs

1106
01:00:38,250 --> 01:00:39,560
that are gonna show up,

1107
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,500
have a very good chance of
having some resistant genes.

1108
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:45,880
Versus if you'd moved them when things

1109
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,350
were looking like this,
there was a lot less chance

1110
01:00:48,350 --> 01:00:52,650
that the worm eggs would carry
a lot of the resistant genes.

1111
01:00:52,650 --> 01:00:53,783
Okay. Next slide.

1112
01:00:56,990 --> 01:01:00,003
Okay. So that's just showing you, next.

1113
01:01:00,970 --> 01:01:01,803
Okay.

1114
01:01:02,812 --> 01:01:07,812
So instead we wanna practice
targeted selective deworming

1115
01:01:10,690 --> 01:01:12,600
where you're only, deworming the animals

1116
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,250
that need it the most.

1117
01:01:14,250 --> 01:01:16,876
And this has been shown
to prolong the efficiency

1118
01:01:16,876 --> 01:01:17,953
of a dewormer.

1119
01:01:18,928 --> 01:01:23,928
And it's also very important for farms

1120
01:01:24,270 --> 01:01:28,270
that like organic farms that
really can't use dewormers,

1121
01:01:28,270 --> 01:01:30,350
except for emergencies.

1122
01:01:30,350 --> 01:01:33,710
Keep in mind that your parasites
are not equally distributed

1123
01:01:33,710 --> 01:01:35,920
in all your individuals.

1124
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,800
And so when it comes, you've
got your bell shaped curve

1125
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,360
of who's highly resistant.

1126
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:46,033
So when it comes to barber
pole worm only about 20 to 30%

1127
01:01:46,033 --> 01:01:50,550
of your sheep and goats
in your flock harbor 80%

1128
01:01:50,550 --> 01:01:52,980
of the worms and they're
gonna be responsible

1129
01:01:52,980 --> 01:01:56,079
for most of the egg output
and the pasture contamination.

1130
01:01:56,079 --> 01:02:00,437
And if you deworm early
enough, you're only gonna have

1131
01:02:00,437 --> 01:02:03,773
to deworm those animals and
not the entire herd or flock.

1132
01:02:03,773 --> 01:02:07,407
If you're not deworming or
taking care of the problem,

1133
01:02:07,407 --> 01:02:11,684
then more and more of
the worms of your animals

1134
01:02:11,684 --> 01:02:13,530
are gonna have heavy worm loads.

1135
01:02:13,530 --> 01:02:16,780
So it's not gonna matter
that 20 to 30% of them have,

1136
01:02:16,780 --> 01:02:21,780
30,000 worm eggs per gram
versus the other, the rest

1137
01:02:21,850 --> 01:02:26,850
of the animals only having
10,000 worm eggs per gram, so.

1138
01:02:27,158 --> 01:02:29,220
Next slide.

1139
01:02:29,220 --> 01:02:31,370
So you do need to deal with that problem,

1140
01:02:31,370 --> 01:02:33,271
whether it's by deworming or getting

1141
01:02:33,271 --> 01:02:37,440
them onto uncontaminated land or what.

1142
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,740
And so in this slide,

1143
01:02:39,740 --> 01:02:43,070
each one of these bars
is an individual animal.

1144
01:02:43,070 --> 01:02:45,810
And so you've got some
individual animals that have more

1145
01:02:45,810 --> 01:02:48,540
than 16,000 worm eggs per gram.

1146
01:02:48,540 --> 01:02:50,730
And then you've got
other animals that barely

1147
01:02:50,730 --> 01:02:52,800
have any worm eggs per gram.

1148
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,903
And yet it's only really these top animals

1149
01:02:54,903 --> 01:02:58,670
that these animals with
super high loads that need

1150
01:02:58,670 --> 01:03:01,340
to be dewormed and that
are the ones responsible

1151
01:03:01,340 --> 01:03:04,354
for most of the contamination
of your pasture.

1152
01:03:04,354 --> 01:03:09,354
So, next thing, if you hit, okay.

1153
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,950
So if you deworm those 33,
if you deworm one third

1154
01:03:13,950 --> 01:03:17,230
of your goats, the one third
that has the most worms,

1155
01:03:17,230 --> 01:03:19,399
you're gonna get rid of 80% of the eggs.

1156
01:03:19,399 --> 01:03:22,530
Next slide.

1157
01:03:22,530 --> 01:03:26,380
Okay. And then what'll
happen is you've gotten rid

1158
01:03:26,380 --> 01:03:27,870
of this group.

1159
01:03:27,870 --> 01:03:30,080
Okay. These are now, if
you've been able to use

1160
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:31,180
an effective dewormer,

1161
01:03:32,097 --> 01:03:35,543
next slide, if you keep going, okay,

1162
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,630
you've reduced if you've been able to use

1163
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:44,900
an effective dewormer,
if something still works

1164
01:03:44,900 --> 01:03:48,470
in your herd, you've
reduced this, these to here.

1165
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:51,560
So these are carrying the resistant genes,

1166
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:53,686
very likely, but if you cross breed them

1167
01:03:53,686 --> 01:03:57,860
with the rest of your population
that didn't get deworm,

1168
01:03:57,860 --> 01:04:00,260
those resistant genes
are gonna get diluted

1169
01:04:00,260 --> 01:04:03,400
in the whole genetic pool,
so that you're less likely

1170
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,650
to quickly build up dewormer resistance.

1171
01:04:05,650 --> 01:04:09,010
You're still gonna be building
it up but much slower.

1172
01:04:09,010 --> 01:04:10,660
Okay.

1173
01:04:10,660 --> 01:04:11,493
All right.

1174
01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:13,883
Okay. Next slide.

1175
01:04:15,690 --> 01:04:18,130
Okay. But how do you
determine who to deworm?

1176
01:04:18,130 --> 01:04:20,020
You can try and do fecal egg counts,

1177
01:04:20,020 --> 01:04:23,190
but they're costly if
you're doing them yourself,

1178
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:24,870
they're time consuming

1179
01:04:24,870 --> 01:04:28,030
and they don't necessarily
identify animals that have

1180
01:04:28,030 --> 01:04:29,768
a low tolerance to worms,

1181
01:04:29,768 --> 01:04:32,700
but aren't shedding a lot of worm eggs.

1182
01:04:32,700 --> 01:04:36,580
You can look at visual cues
and production records.

1183
01:04:36,580 --> 01:04:37,593
Next slide.

1184
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,181
So when it comes to barber pole worm,

1185
01:04:41,181 --> 01:04:44,590
we suggest using barber pole worm as part

1186
01:04:44,590 --> 01:04:46,650
of a five-point check.

1187
01:04:46,650 --> 01:04:50,502
Okay and five-point checks are
ways to monitor your animals,

1188
01:04:50,502 --> 01:04:54,007
to try and decide who
needs selective deworming.

1189
01:04:54,007 --> 01:04:58,111
And you can also use fecal egg
counts to be helpful in that,

1190
01:04:58,111 --> 01:05:01,146
but you don't have to be fecal
egg counting the whole herd.

1191
01:05:01,146 --> 01:05:04,139
And if you don't have
access to fecal egg counts,

1192
01:05:04,139 --> 01:05:08,750
five-point checks can be very, very, very

1193
01:05:08,750 --> 01:05:10,770
and a very effective tool.

1194
01:05:10,770 --> 01:05:12,980
And so you wanna include FAMACHA in this.

1195
01:05:12,980 --> 01:05:15,690
And we said that one of the main signs

1196
01:05:15,690 --> 01:05:19,630
of barber pole worm infection is anemia.

1197
01:05:19,630 --> 01:05:24,103
So you check to see what the
animal's membranes look like,

1198
01:05:24,103 --> 01:05:27,210
their mucus membranes in the lower part

1199
01:05:27,210 --> 01:05:30,640
of their eye look like
and using a system like

1200
01:05:34,140 --> 01:05:37,014
this has been shown in studies
to significantly decrease

1201
01:05:37,014 --> 01:05:42,014
how fast your dewormer
resistance develops, next slide.

1202
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,850
And a five-point check can
vary depending on where,

1203
01:05:49,850 --> 01:05:51,379
what country you live in,

1204
01:05:51,379 --> 01:05:54,290
what worms are your big problem,

1205
01:05:54,290 --> 01:05:57,850
but what's often used
is in the US is checking

1206
01:05:57,850 --> 01:06:00,180
the FAMACHA score on your animals.

1207
01:06:00,180 --> 01:06:03,260
Checking to see if the
animals have a bottle jaw,

1208
01:06:03,260 --> 01:06:06,303
which would indicate a
really heavy dewormer,

1209
01:06:07,330 --> 01:06:10,580
heavy barber pole worm load,
though it could also be

1210
01:06:10,580 --> 01:06:12,780
that they've got liver
fluke, unfortunately.

1211
01:06:14,090 --> 01:06:15,740
So you would check those things.

1212
01:06:15,740 --> 01:06:18,060
You would check to their body condition.

1213
01:06:18,060 --> 01:06:19,860
If you're keeping weight gain records,

1214
01:06:19,860 --> 01:06:23,010
are they gaining as well
as the rest of the herd?

1215
01:06:23,010 --> 01:06:24,720
Or are they gaining poorly?

1216
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,003
Is there hair coat rough
or is it nice and shiny?

1217
01:06:30,010 --> 01:06:32,950
You look at their dag
or their fecal score,

1218
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:36,310
do they have diarrhea or is
their feces nice and firm.

1219
01:06:36,310 --> 01:06:38,560
Of course, keeping in
mind the time of year

1220
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,080
that this year they're
gonna be fairly loose.

1221
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,040
And then what kind of
movement do they have?

1222
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,090
If they're anemic, they
often will be lagging

1223
01:06:47,090 --> 01:06:50,010
behind the herd as you
move from grazing paddock

1224
01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:51,704
to grazing paddock.

1225
01:06:51,704 --> 01:06:56,704
And so you can adjust
this system to your own,

1226
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,720
to what works for your farm.

1227
01:06:58,720 --> 01:06:59,840
When I've worked overseas,

1228
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:04,380
sometimes we're having
trouble with nasal worms.

1229
01:07:04,380 --> 01:07:09,380
And so we'd be checking the noses as well.

1230
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,160
You can see what works for you,

1231
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,030
but this is what we generally
use and what we'll be teaching

1232
01:07:15,030 --> 01:07:17,820
at the workshop next week.

1233
01:07:17,820 --> 01:07:18,683
Next slide.

1234
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:23,610
And we're trying to look not
only at barber pole worm,

1235
01:07:23,610 --> 01:07:25,755
but your other strongyle worms as well,

1236
01:07:25,755 --> 01:07:29,500
but you have to keep in mind
that other things like Coccidia

1237
01:07:29,500 --> 01:07:32,250
and liver fluke can be causing issues.

1238
01:07:32,250 --> 01:07:35,040
And we'll be showing this
next week, how to do this.

1239
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:37,982
You don't wanna just pull
down on the lower eyelid,

1240
01:07:37,982 --> 01:07:42,982
instead you're usually pushing
in, the eye into the cavity,

1241
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,720
the socket there and then
that causes the lower eyelid

1242
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:47,650
to sort of bulge.

1243
01:07:47,650 --> 01:07:51,360
And then it becomes easy to
pull that out or push down on it

1244
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,160
and see it and it bulges out.

1245
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,030
So it's easy to see the color,

1246
01:07:55,030 --> 01:07:59,400
and then you'll use a FAMACHA
card to compare the color

1247
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:03,137
and to see how anemic the animal looks.

1248
01:08:06,190 --> 01:08:09,750
And will you normally treat
adults if they're at score four

1249
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:12,620
and five, we'll often treat lambs as kids,

1250
01:08:12,620 --> 01:08:17,080
if they're even a score of
three and then as we said,

1251
01:08:18,010 --> 01:08:20,049
you don't wanna do this in isolation.

1252
01:08:20,049 --> 01:08:23,770
And I would say bottle jaw,

1253
01:08:23,770 --> 01:08:26,121
because it's a breakdown of the proteins.

1254
01:08:26,121 --> 01:08:28,280
You usually see it later on.

1255
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:32,060
So the animals are usually
if it's being caused

1256
01:08:32,060 --> 01:08:34,480
by barber pole worm, the
animals usually have quite

1257
01:08:34,480 --> 01:08:37,360
a high load by the time
you see bottle jaws

1258
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,410
and are usually pretty anemic.

1259
01:08:39,410 --> 01:08:40,593
Okay, next slide.

1260
01:08:45,058 --> 01:08:47,800
This is what the card used to look like.

1261
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,630
It was a really big thing and
harder to put on your wrist

1262
01:08:50,630 --> 01:08:52,300
or harder to hold.

1263
01:08:52,300 --> 01:08:54,470
You can see this animal
looks a lot more pale

1264
01:08:54,470 --> 01:08:57,114
than the animal on the previous page.

1265
01:08:57,114 --> 01:09:01,240
Some disadvantages of
FAMACHA is you need to do it

1266
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,485
in sunlight or very bright lighting.

1267
01:09:03,485 --> 01:09:07,600
Obviously, I don't know about in Vermont,

1268
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,850
but in New York, if we
waited for sunlight,

1269
01:09:10,850 --> 01:09:13,120
there'd be a lot of days
when we couldn't do this.

1270
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,950
If you are having to do it
inside the way this farmer,

1271
01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:19,160
Jim Taylor, is having to do here,

1272
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:23,876
then using like a 500 Watt
quartz work light or shop light

1273
01:09:23,876 --> 01:09:26,220
can be really helpful.

1274
01:09:26,220 --> 01:09:30,587
Otherwise, you can do it
near a window or a skylight

1275
01:09:30,587 --> 01:09:32,083
that can help a lot.

1276
01:09:32,083 --> 01:09:36,140
And during the grazing season, we say,

1277
01:09:36,140 --> 01:09:38,533
you need to do it at
least every two weeks.

1278
01:09:39,540 --> 01:09:41,960
Remember that it's only
good for barber pole worms.

1279
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:45,310
So that's why you would include
the rest of those things

1280
01:09:45,310 --> 01:09:46,793
on your five-point check.

1281
01:09:48,210 --> 01:09:53,210
And we'll talk more on next
Monday about what other things.

1282
01:09:54,190 --> 01:09:56,610
Obviously, if it's really
dusty out your animals

1283
01:09:56,610 --> 01:10:00,000
could have red membranes
from dust irritation

1284
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,870
or if they're running a high fever,

1285
01:10:01,870 --> 01:10:04,143
they could have red membranes from that.

1286
01:10:05,087 --> 01:10:07,280
Next slide.

1287
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:11,760
And there's other causes of
anemia in sheep and goats.

1288
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:13,550
Now, one thing to keep in mind,

1289
01:10:13,550 --> 01:10:16,889
if there are less than 10% of your flock

1290
01:10:16,889 --> 01:10:21,889
is in categories four and
five, then you would treat

1291
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:25,220
those animals and you
would reexamine the herd

1292
01:10:25,220 --> 01:10:26,760
again in two weeks.

1293
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:28,710
Okay and you would wanna
be treating them with

1294
01:10:28,710 --> 01:10:29,813
an effective dewormer.

1295
01:10:31,030 --> 01:10:34,300
And if you don't, obviously
if you're organic,

1296
01:10:34,300 --> 01:10:37,455
some of the other things you
can do is put them in the barn

1297
01:10:37,455 --> 01:10:41,680
on really clean, where they
can't reinfect themselves.

1298
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:43,960
But even then, I mean, once
they're a four or five,

1299
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,300
you really do need to usually get

1300
01:10:46,300 --> 01:10:48,413
an effective dewormer into them.

1301
01:10:49,350 --> 01:10:54,350
And unfortunately, Fiesta
farms, dewormer usually

1302
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,755
isn't gonna work at that stage.

1303
01:10:57,755 --> 01:10:59,873
Next slide.

1304
01:11:03,782 --> 01:11:06,710
However, what you need to keep in mind

1305
01:11:06,710 --> 01:11:09,010
is that if you've waited long enough,

1306
01:11:09,010 --> 01:11:11,649
that greater than 10%
of your flock and herd

1307
01:11:11,649 --> 01:11:16,350
is in categories four and
five, then the recommendation

1308
01:11:16,350 --> 01:11:19,345
for FAMACHA is that
you would usually treat

1309
01:11:19,345 --> 01:11:20,410
all the threes as well.

1310
01:11:20,410 --> 01:11:22,410
And often when you reach that case,

1311
01:11:22,410 --> 01:11:25,710
most of your animals are at least a three.

1312
01:11:25,710 --> 01:11:28,520
And so that means you're gonna
end up treating a whole bunch

1313
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,965
of your animals all at one time.

1314
01:11:30,965 --> 01:11:35,965
So you really wanna not get
to that stage at all possible.

1315
01:11:37,390 --> 01:11:40,360
Once that happens, you also
wanna start treating the herd

1316
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:45,360
at least or checking the
herd at least once a week,

1317
01:11:45,530 --> 01:11:47,810
which is easy to do if you've got interns

1318
01:11:47,810 --> 01:11:49,070
that you've trained to do it

1319
01:11:49,070 --> 01:11:52,890
and you need something for
the interns to do once a week,

1320
01:11:52,890 --> 01:11:56,357
but otherwise doing it
yourself is time consuming.

1321
01:11:56,357 --> 01:11:59,640
And you don't wanna treat all
the animals before a move.

1322
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,250
You would treat, half of them
before you made the move.

1323
01:12:02,250 --> 01:12:06,104
And then the rest of them
a couple of days after,

1324
01:12:06,104 --> 01:12:10,780
or during a couple of
days after that move.

1325
01:12:10,780 --> 01:12:13,350
So you really wanna avoid
getting to this stage.

1326
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:15,280
And unfortunately, for most people,

1327
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:19,420
what we do is we look at a
couple of animals and we say, oh,

1328
01:12:19,420 --> 01:12:20,920
they look good. I don't need to,

1329
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:22,930
I don't need to look at everyone.

1330
01:12:22,930 --> 01:12:24,610
Looking at everyone every two weeks

1331
01:12:24,610 --> 01:12:26,560
is way too time consuming.

1332
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,339
And so you let it go three weeks
or four weeks or five weeks

1333
01:12:29,339 --> 01:12:32,290
until you suddenly
realize that, oh my gosh,

1334
01:12:32,290 --> 01:12:34,833
someone is really anemic
or someone has a bottle jaw

1335
01:12:34,833 --> 01:12:36,700
and then you check everyone.

1336
01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:40,100
And by that time, everyone,
most of them are four

1337
01:12:40,100 --> 01:12:42,540
or fives and threes and you've defeated

1338
01:12:42,540 --> 01:12:44,350
the purpose of FAMACHA.

1339
01:12:44,350 --> 01:12:46,930
So I'm really serious when
I say that, unfortunately,

1340
01:12:46,930 --> 01:12:50,150
you do really need to be
checking at least every two weeks

1341
01:12:50,150 --> 01:12:52,250
during the grazing season.

1342
01:12:52,250 --> 01:12:53,660
Okay.

1343
01:12:53,660 --> 01:12:54,513
Next slide.

1344
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:58,900
Okay.

1345
01:12:58,900 --> 01:13:01,900
All right and then it's
recommended to treat the threes

1346
01:13:01,900 --> 01:13:06,000
when greater than 10% are of
the flock or herd is in four

1347
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,270
or five or if they're young animals

1348
01:13:08,270 --> 01:13:11,720
or if they're ewes,
vulnerable ewes and does,

1349
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,484
which should be around the
time of lambing and kidding,

1350
01:13:14,484 --> 01:13:19,484
during peak lactation, thin,
poorly conditioned animals.

1351
01:13:20,854 --> 01:13:23,719
And if you're down to
one effective dewormer,

1352
01:13:23,719 --> 01:13:26,030
we'll often recommend that you use

1353
01:13:26,030 --> 01:13:29,746
your less effective dewormers
on your category three animals

1354
01:13:29,746 --> 01:13:33,703
and your effective dewormers
on your fours and fives.

1355
01:13:37,340 --> 01:13:39,773
And nowadays we'll, next slide.

1356
01:13:41,947 --> 01:13:43,583
Next slide.

1357
01:13:52,017 --> 01:13:54,993
Is this the next slide?

1358
01:13:57,930 --> 01:14:00,830
And nowadays we'll often go ahead and say,

1359
01:14:00,830 --> 01:14:05,830
to give a dewormer
combination to those animals

1360
01:14:05,953 --> 01:14:08,150
that are in your fours and five.

1361
01:14:08,150 --> 01:14:10,940
So you wouldn't mix
the dewormers together,

1362
01:14:10,940 --> 01:14:12,330
but you would give them dewormers

1363
01:14:12,330 --> 01:14:15,701
from two different families
at the time you deworm

1364
01:14:15,701 --> 01:14:19,860
and then you would only give
one less effective one possibly

1365
01:14:19,860 --> 01:14:20,693
to your threes.

1366
01:14:20,693 --> 01:14:23,020
But you wanna, when you
do that, you would wanna

1367
01:14:23,020 --> 01:14:28,020
be deworming everyone with
a combination dewormers.

1368
01:14:28,398 --> 01:14:31,380
Don't buy resistant worms.

1369
01:14:31,380 --> 01:14:34,310
When you bring in new
additions to your herd,

1370
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:36,850
it's really important to
quarantine them if possible,

1371
01:14:36,850 --> 01:14:39,513
get their manure in your compost pile,

1372
01:14:39,513 --> 01:14:42,335
rather than out on your pastures.

1373
01:14:42,335 --> 01:14:45,926
And often, depending on
whether you're organic or not.

1374
01:14:45,926 --> 01:14:47,700
Obviously if you're organic,

1375
01:14:47,700 --> 01:14:50,000
you wouldn't be
aggressively deworming them,

1376
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,960
but you would be doing an
aggressive cleanout of them,

1377
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:55,190
by quarantining them and stuff,

1378
01:14:55,190 --> 01:14:57,854
before you mix them into
the rest of your herd.

1379
01:14:57,854 --> 01:15:01,740
Otherwise we recommend
deworming them with dewormers

1380
01:15:01,740 --> 01:15:04,597
from all three of the
classes, but remember them,

1381
01:15:04,597 --> 01:15:08,930
remember that any eggs they do lay

1382
01:15:08,930 --> 01:15:12,830
after that for the next few
weeks are gonna be super worms.

1383
01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:15,734
And so you're not gonna put
that manure out on your pasture

1384
01:15:15,734 --> 01:15:19,290
and then perform fecal egg
counts to see if you have killed

1385
01:15:19,290 --> 01:15:20,570
off their worms.

1386
01:15:20,570 --> 01:15:21,423
Next slide.

1387
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:28,660
So this is part three.

1388
01:15:28,660 --> 01:15:30,763
It's what it what's in our future.

1389
01:15:31,950 --> 01:15:34,543
I'll look at the chat really quickly.

1390
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:37,160
Where do you buy by?

1391
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,078
- [Betsy] So we were
gonna take a break here.

1392
01:15:39,078 --> 01:15:40,023
- Okay.

1393
01:15:42,830 --> 01:15:46,420
So shall we go ahead and
take a short break here?

1394
01:15:46,420 --> 01:15:48,880
- [Betsy] Yes, answer
the questions and then.

1395
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:50,030
- Yeah.

1396
01:15:50,030 --> 01:15:51,368
- [Betsy] We'll take a little break.

1397
01:15:51,368 --> 01:15:55,990
- So vitamin E you can
buy it through online,

1398
01:15:55,990 --> 01:15:58,937
I think through different catalogs online

1399
01:16:04,570 --> 01:16:08,190
and you would mix it into the
feed or into the trace mineral

1400
01:16:08,190 --> 01:16:12,984
and some trace minerals do
contain good amounts of vitamin E

1401
01:16:12,984 --> 01:16:15,760
so you can compare the amounts.

1402
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,405
Can be fairly expensive.

1403
01:16:18,405 --> 01:16:23,405
I can look up who I was ordering it from,

1404
01:16:23,621 --> 01:16:28,340
who I was originally ordering it from.

1405
01:16:28,340 --> 01:16:31,960
I can look that up and
bottle jaw would usually

1406
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:35,500
be pretty late in the
later stage of infestation.

1407
01:16:35,500 --> 01:16:39,220
They're usually quite, have quite

1408
01:16:39,220 --> 01:16:41,780
a high barber pole worm load by then.

1409
01:16:41,780 --> 01:16:44,000
Okay. So yeah, let's take a break.

1410
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:47,040
There is, there'll only be about
seven or eight slides here,

1411
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:48,500
so hopefully we'll be able to go through

1412
01:16:48,500 --> 01:16:52,200
this part pretty quickly,
but I know it's a part

1413
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:53,524
that's a major interest
to people, so yeah,

1414
01:16:53,524 --> 01:16:57,640
let's take a break and then we'll resume.

1415
01:16:57,640 --> 01:16:59,520
All right. Thank you.

1416
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,030
- Are you thinking just a couple
minutes to grab some water?

1417
01:17:02,030 --> 01:17:04,390
We are coming up close to the 8:30.

1418
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:07,790
- Yeah. So I was thinking like,

1419
01:17:07,790 --> 01:17:11,090
at the most just one or two
minutes to go take a pee

1420
01:17:11,090 --> 01:17:13,066
or drink some water. Okay.

1421
01:17:13,066 --> 01:17:13,899
- Okay.

1422
01:17:15,470 --> 01:17:17,350
- We talked about going over the pre-quiz,

1423
01:17:17,350 --> 01:17:19,920
but maybe that's too much for tonight.

1424
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:21,970
- And Betsy, I also remembered that some

1425
01:17:21,970 --> 01:17:25,930
of the pre-quiz questions are asking

1426
01:17:25,930 --> 01:17:28,400
about copper oxide wire
particles and stuff.

1427
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,060
- Ah, true.

1428
01:17:31,060 --> 01:17:31,893
- Yeah.

1429
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:43,360
But hopefully we'll be able to do that.

1430
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:46,623
Or at least with the
people who wanna stay on.

1431
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:51,990
I know I always take too
long on the pasture stuff.

1432
01:17:51,990 --> 01:17:54,700
- Well, that's a really important part.

1433
01:17:54,700 --> 01:17:57,110
- Well, for people who are pasturing,

1434
01:17:57,110 --> 01:17:58,210
it's really important.

1435
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:01,320
- That's true.

1436
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:04,090
- As you mentioned, sometimes
we're not working with people

1437
01:18:04,090 --> 01:18:05,560
who are doing a lot of pasturing,

1438
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:07,060
even though you and I both do.

1439
01:18:21,380 --> 01:18:24,929
- Did you notice on that
one (indistinct) picture?

1440
01:18:24,929 --> 01:18:27,170
They are holding the card
in the wrong direction.

1441
01:18:27,170 --> 01:18:28,583
Never noticed that before.

1442
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:32,880
- Why don't you go back and let me see

1443
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:33,780
that for a second.

1444
01:18:42,779 --> 01:18:43,612
- See?

1445
01:18:43,612 --> 01:18:46,250
- Oh yeah. And that's not one of ours.

1446
01:18:46,250 --> 01:18:49,600
- That's weird.

1447
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,240
- I wonder if they, those
guys do that regularly.

1448
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,010
Yeah. That's University of Rhode Island.

1449
01:18:54,010 --> 01:18:56,289
That's Catherine and those guys.

1450
01:18:56,289 --> 01:18:57,480
- Oh, we're gonna have to pick on them.

1451
01:18:57,480 --> 01:18:59,333
- Yeah. 'Cause come back to ours.

1452
01:19:00,221 --> 01:19:01,223
Keep go, go forward.

1453
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:05,380
- Find the little thing. Yes.

1454
01:19:05,380 --> 01:19:07,617
See that's how we would hold it.

1455
01:19:07,617 --> 01:19:10,910
- Yeah. This is one of
ours, I don't remember

1456
01:19:10,910 --> 01:19:14,930
whose farm that's at, but
that's one of ours. Okay.

1457
01:19:14,930 --> 01:19:15,763
Next one.

1458
01:19:17,110 --> 01:19:20,550
So it looks like we have
all 34 people back now.

1459
01:19:20,550 --> 01:19:24,260
So should we go ahead
and we'll get started.

1460
01:19:24,260 --> 01:19:27,620
Okay. So we're gonna look at
some worm control strategies

1461
01:19:27,620 --> 01:19:31,703
that are in development
or are now being used.

1462
01:19:32,842 --> 01:19:34,263
Next slide.

1463
01:19:38,550 --> 01:19:41,897
So one of these was Duddingtonia flagrans.

1464
01:19:44,126 --> 01:19:48,810
In nature, there's lots of
nematode trapping of fungi.

1465
01:19:48,810 --> 01:19:53,810
And a lot of these have evolved
to live in livestock feces

1466
01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:00,630
and to eat the gastrointestinal
worm larva as they hatch

1467
01:20:00,630 --> 01:20:03,180
out of that feces.

1468
01:20:03,180 --> 01:20:06,870
And the one in preliminary
studies that were done quite

1469
01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:10,590
a few years ago, Dunningtonia
flagrans really stood out

1470
01:20:10,590 --> 01:20:11,610
as a good one.

1471
01:20:11,610 --> 01:20:15,780
And so they did studies in
Scotland and then Scotland sort

1472
01:20:15,780 --> 01:20:18,113
of dropped it and Australia took it up

1473
01:20:18,113 --> 01:20:20,336
and International Animal Health developed

1474
01:20:20,336 --> 01:20:22,902
these two products.

1475
01:20:22,902 --> 01:20:26,650
Ones can be top dressed or
incorporated into a feed

1476
01:20:26,650 --> 01:20:28,570
or a mineral supplement.

1477
01:20:28,570 --> 01:20:31,560
And the other one is a
feed supplement that has

1478
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:33,393
the BioWorma added to it.

1479
01:20:34,530 --> 01:20:39,530
Unfortunately, your sheep
goat has to eat these daily,

1480
01:20:40,650 --> 01:20:43,330
but the spore does survive travel through

1481
01:20:43,330 --> 01:20:45,820
the digestive track and then it's excreted

1482
01:20:45,820 --> 01:20:48,020
in the animals manure along

1483
01:20:48,020 --> 01:20:49,910
with any worm eggs the animal has.

1484
01:20:49,910 --> 01:20:54,680
And once it's excreted, it
germinates and traps and consumes

1485
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:59,253
those newly hatched L-1 larva.

1486
01:21:00,146 --> 01:21:03,270
Like I said, unfortunately
it seems to have

1487
01:21:03,270 --> 01:21:05,250
to be eaten daily though there

1488
01:21:05,250 --> 01:21:07,160
were some studies several years ago

1489
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:10,480
where they did try feeding
it every two to three days

1490
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:13,033
and it seemed to be
effective that way as well.

1491
01:21:15,804 --> 01:21:18,248
And so last year, the
biggest problems we had

1492
01:21:18,248 --> 01:21:21,870
with it was that it was quite costly.

1493
01:21:21,870 --> 01:21:24,430
And some people, especially
when they initially would feed,

1494
01:21:24,430 --> 01:21:27,600
it said that they were having
palatability issues with it.

1495
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:31,090
But that seemed to, in
most cases, for most sheep

1496
01:21:31,090 --> 01:21:33,490
and goat flocks, they got
used to it pretty quickly.

1497
01:21:33,490 --> 01:21:36,073
But it was about the same cost.

1498
01:21:36,073 --> 01:21:39,733
It's pretty close to the cost
of feeding your animals hay.

1499
01:21:41,872 --> 01:21:45,210
And the big problem we
have with it right now

1500
01:21:45,210 --> 01:21:49,450
is there's a shortage,
there's been problems

1501
01:21:49,450 --> 01:21:51,680
with the spore production in Australia.

1502
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:55,800
And so even though it's been
accepted for organic use

1503
01:21:55,800 --> 01:22:00,050
in Australia and New Zealand,
they're not exporting any

1504
01:22:00,050 --> 01:22:02,390
of it to the US right now.

1505
01:22:02,390 --> 01:22:04,310
Premier was one of the carriers of it.

1506
01:22:04,310 --> 01:22:06,863
And then of the BioWorma there were,

1507
01:22:07,738 --> 01:22:11,677
feed mills could order
it directly from IAH.

1508
01:22:14,350 --> 01:22:16,180
But right now they're saying that except

1509
01:22:16,180 --> 01:22:19,965
for research purposes, it's not available

1510
01:22:19,965 --> 01:22:24,790
and they're not sure it'll be
available by late summer even.

1511
01:22:24,790 --> 01:22:25,973
Okay. Next slide.

1512
01:22:29,830 --> 01:22:31,470
When it comes to vaccines,

1513
01:22:31,470 --> 01:22:36,100
there was a breakthrough in
Australia where they developed

1514
01:22:36,100 --> 01:22:38,820
a system to centrifuge the worms,

1515
01:22:38,820 --> 01:22:41,390
where they were able to harvest much more

1516
01:22:41,390 --> 01:22:46,240
of the immunity inducing
antigen than they had previously

1517
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:48,351
been able to do.

1518
01:22:48,351 --> 01:22:51,601
They're able now to get a lot more,

1519
01:22:51,601 --> 01:22:54,220
they've been able to adjust
things so that they're able

1520
01:22:54,220 --> 01:22:56,920
to get a lot more, but they've never,

1521
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,760
we still have not been able
to synthesize the antigen

1522
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:01,840
for barber pole worm.

1523
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,690
And that vaccine is very dependent

1524
01:23:04,690 --> 01:23:07,740
on having slaughter houses,
they process lots of lambs

1525
01:23:07,740 --> 01:23:10,150
and goats as they do in Australia.

1526
01:23:10,150 --> 01:23:12,420
The vaccine is called Barbervax.

1527
01:23:12,420 --> 01:23:16,410
And it did not, they have
not registered it for goats

1528
01:23:16,410 --> 01:23:20,060
because the effectiveness was
too variable in the studies

1529
01:23:20,060 --> 01:23:21,840
they did in Australia.

1530
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,160
Some of the studies they've
done in Latin America,

1531
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,550
was more effective, but
it wasn't successful,

1532
01:23:27,550 --> 01:23:32,550
efficient enough to extend
the registration in Australia.

1533
01:23:32,830 --> 01:23:35,710
And it requires quite a few dosages.

1534
01:23:35,710 --> 01:23:38,630
The animal's not protected
until the fifth dose.

1535
01:23:38,630 --> 01:23:41,970
So it was thought that you
would only use it on lambs,

1536
01:23:41,970 --> 01:23:45,100
on lambs that you wouldn't
use it on adult animals.

1537
01:23:45,100 --> 01:23:48,630
It would primarily be for lambs
and it is fairly expensive.

1538
01:23:48,630 --> 01:23:51,581
And so the thought is
that it's pretty unlikely

1539
01:23:51,581 --> 01:23:54,170
to be marketed in the US.

1540
01:23:54,170 --> 01:23:57,080
A few years ago, Canada was interested

1541
01:23:57,080 --> 01:24:02,080
and they were trying to do
an effort to get it approved

1542
01:24:02,110 --> 01:24:05,290
for both countries, but it's very unlikely

1543
01:24:05,290 --> 01:24:07,840
that it's gonna get approved
for the United States.

1544
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:08,763
Next slide.

1545
01:24:10,350 --> 01:24:12,913
And so far, I haven't
heard of any breakthroughs

1546
01:24:12,913 --> 01:24:15,223
on synthesizing the antigen.

1547
01:24:16,310 --> 01:24:19,010
We have copper oxide wire particles.

1548
01:24:19,010 --> 01:24:23,820
It only works on worms that
are in the true stomach,

1549
01:24:23,820 --> 01:24:25,003
in the abomasum.

1550
01:24:26,250 --> 01:24:29,790
So it doesn't work on a lot
of your gastrointestinal worms

1551
01:24:29,790 --> 01:24:31,870
that are mostly in the intestines.

1552
01:24:31,870 --> 01:24:34,720
So it does damage your barber pole worm.

1553
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,750
It doesn't damage brown stomach worm.

1554
01:24:37,750 --> 01:24:40,910
And that's because if you have
too many brown stomach worms

1555
01:24:40,910 --> 01:24:44,330
in your animal, brown stomach worm attacks

1556
01:24:44,330 --> 01:24:46,300
the gastric glands, right.

1557
01:24:46,300 --> 01:24:49,722
And so by attacking the gastric
glands of the true stomach,

1558
01:24:49,722 --> 01:24:51,560
it means that you don't get

1559
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:54,400
as much gastric juice being produced

1560
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:58,510
and so the true stomach, one
symptom of brown stomach worm

1561
01:24:58,510 --> 01:25:02,560
is this heavy infection
with brown stomach worm

1562
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:05,840
is that your stomach
doesn't get acidic enough

1563
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:06,870
for good nutrition.

1564
01:25:06,870 --> 01:25:10,373
That's why the animals
look like the one animal,

1565
01:25:11,612 --> 01:25:13,540
look like their digestive tract is upset.

1566
01:25:13,540 --> 01:25:17,250
They've got rough stomachs or
rough coats and all that is

1567
01:25:17,250 --> 01:25:19,360
because it's not getting acidic enough.

1568
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:23,750
And unfortunately the true
stomach needs to be acidic

1569
01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:26,511
in order for those copper
oxide wire particles

1570
01:25:26,511 --> 01:25:28,760
to be dissolved.

1571
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:30,430
So you don't get good dissolving

1572
01:25:30,430 --> 01:25:33,140
of the copper oxide wire
particles when your animals

1573
01:25:33,140 --> 01:25:36,730
are heavily infected
with brown stomach worm.

1574
01:25:36,730 --> 01:25:39,380
And so we already knew that
there were these problems

1575
01:25:39,380 --> 01:25:42,970
with it, with the copper and the copper

1576
01:25:42,970 --> 01:25:47,970
should be causing lesions
on the barber pole worm.

1577
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:51,910
And it seems like some worms
are evolving to not get

1578
01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:54,557
those lesions, maybe to have thicker skin.

1579
01:25:54,557 --> 01:25:58,630
And then it also should be
boosting the immune system,

1580
01:25:58,630 --> 01:26:01,090
the copper travels to the small intestines

1581
01:26:01,090 --> 01:26:03,980
after it's dissolved
and is absorbed there.

1582
01:26:03,980 --> 01:26:06,953
So you have two mechanisms by
which it should be fighting

1583
01:26:06,953 --> 01:26:08,900
the barber pole worm.

1584
01:26:08,900 --> 01:26:09,803
Next slide.

1585
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:13,840
So we did a lot.

1586
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:15,870
We did studies with, I don't know,

1587
01:26:15,870 --> 01:26:19,670
20 farms or so a lot of farms in New York

1588
01:26:19,670 --> 01:26:22,110
with copper oxide wire particles.

1589
01:26:22,110 --> 01:26:23,430
And in most of the herds,

1590
01:26:23,430 --> 01:26:26,540
it did not work as
effectively or as abruptly

1591
01:26:26,540 --> 01:26:28,390
as a chemical dewormer.

1592
01:26:28,390 --> 01:26:32,830
We did found that when it works
a 0.5 gram dosage per lamb

1593
01:26:32,830 --> 01:26:37,830
was as effective as a one
gram dosage per head per lamb.

1594
01:26:38,150 --> 01:26:41,257
It was a little more
uncertain with goat kids.

1595
01:26:41,257 --> 01:26:45,430
It seemed like you need a
somewhat higher dosage maybe,

1596
01:26:45,430 --> 01:26:48,900
but we also found that on the goat kids,

1597
01:26:48,900 --> 01:26:50,480
it was a lot more variable.

1598
01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:53,170
On some farms, it didn't
seem to work at all.

1599
01:26:53,170 --> 01:26:56,530
And keep in mind that the
Cornell Vet Diagnostic Lab

1600
01:26:56,530 --> 01:27:01,530
has observed some poisoning
resulting in death

1601
01:27:01,580 --> 01:27:06,460
in lambs that got two gram
dosages at other places.

1602
01:27:06,460 --> 01:27:08,710
And those have been on flocks

1603
01:27:08,710 --> 01:27:13,050
where the flock got two gram dosages,

1604
01:27:13,050 --> 01:27:15,250
and most of the lambs did great.

1605
01:27:15,250 --> 01:27:17,760
And then some lambs that
were underwent stress

1606
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:22,760
because they got sold to other
farms, got copper toxicity.

1607
01:27:23,811 --> 01:27:27,210
Okay, so that's the thing
with copper toxicity.

1608
01:27:27,210 --> 01:27:29,667
It becomes much worse under stress.

1609
01:27:29,667 --> 01:27:33,120
We did find that there
was one farm and this was

1610
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:38,120
the extension learning farm
that Betsy is associated with.

1611
01:27:38,180 --> 01:27:42,330
It had a effective, long-term impact,

1612
01:27:42,330 --> 01:27:45,810
all three years of
testing, but on most farms,

1613
01:27:45,810 --> 01:27:47,590
we only found a short-term effect.

1614
01:27:47,590 --> 01:27:51,300
So we didn't know if possibly
the extension learning farm

1615
01:27:51,300 --> 01:27:52,900
is a little deficient in copper.

1616
01:27:52,900 --> 01:27:55,500
They don't use any copper
in their mineral mix

1617
01:27:55,500 --> 01:27:58,600
and they feed almost no
grain at all and usually

1618
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:01,930
the grain has no added copper to it.

1619
01:28:01,930 --> 01:28:05,023
So we didn't know if maybe the
immune systems just really,

1620
01:28:05,023 --> 01:28:10,023
really responded to
the copper being there,

1621
01:28:10,537 --> 01:28:15,100
but it's very variable from
farm to farm is what we found

1622
01:28:15,100 --> 01:28:16,530
in our studies.

1623
01:28:16,530 --> 01:28:18,800
And so we don't know if it's the diet,

1624
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,900
the timing of the dosing in relationship

1625
01:28:21,900 --> 01:28:23,440
to the timing of infection.

1626
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:26,229
It seemed like if animals
didn't have any barber pole worm

1627
01:28:26,229 --> 01:28:28,060
until a month or two later,

1628
01:28:28,060 --> 01:28:30,170
it wasn't very effective at the same time.

1629
01:28:30,170 --> 01:28:34,270
If the animals had super high infections

1630
01:28:34,270 --> 01:28:37,393
of barber pole worm, it didn't
seem to be very helpful.

1631
01:28:38,410 --> 01:28:40,520
Probably has a lot to do with the acidity

1632
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:42,070
of the true stomach.

1633
01:28:42,070 --> 01:28:44,720
And it seemed in our
studies that it worked best

1634
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:47,410
when animals already had some worm load

1635
01:28:47,410 --> 01:28:50,680
when they were dosed, some
barber pole worm load when dosed.

1636
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:54,390
When we gave it, pre-weaning though

1637
01:28:54,390 --> 01:28:57,280
at the extension learning
farm and other farms,

1638
01:28:57,280 --> 01:28:59,970
it did work great two weeks post weaning.

1639
01:28:59,970 --> 01:29:01,310
And also when the animals

1640
01:29:01,310 --> 01:29:03,860
were not consuming large
quantities of grain,

1641
01:29:03,860 --> 01:29:07,694
it seemed to work better
at the grass fed farms,

1642
01:29:07,694 --> 01:29:09,704
but we need more controlled studies,

1643
01:29:09,704 --> 01:29:12,870
comparing different types
of flock management.

1644
01:29:12,870 --> 01:29:14,850
So don't feel like, oh,

1645
01:29:14,850 --> 01:29:17,110
I'm gonna give copper oxide wire particles

1646
01:29:17,110 --> 01:29:18,440
and they're gonna work on my herd

1647
01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:20,190
to control barber pole worm.

1648
01:29:20,190 --> 01:29:24,210
You really need to look
and see if it is effective

1649
01:29:24,210 --> 01:29:25,080
on your herd.

1650
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:28,963
Follow it up with fecal
egg counts, next slide.

1651
01:29:30,980 --> 01:29:34,029
And one thing that we
recommended, it's recommended

1652
01:29:34,029 --> 01:29:38,840
by the American Consortium,
by the researchers

1653
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:41,511
with it there, is to
use it on your threes.

1654
01:29:41,511 --> 01:29:43,690
Use copper oxide wire particles,

1655
01:29:43,690 --> 01:29:46,200
and it's very low dosages of it.

1656
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:48,700
It's only a two gram
dose in adult animals.

1657
01:29:48,700 --> 01:29:51,750
And like I said, a 0.5 gram dose seems

1658
01:29:51,750 --> 01:29:56,516
to work, be very effective in
lambs when it is effective.

1659
01:29:56,516 --> 01:30:01,516
To use that on your animals,

1660
01:30:02,440 --> 01:30:05,390
that on a FAMACHA score
card are scoring threes

1661
01:30:05,390 --> 01:30:09,330
and then use an effective
dewormer on your fours and fives

1662
01:30:09,330 --> 01:30:12,510
was sort of our, the
recommendation that a lot

1663
01:30:12,510 --> 01:30:14,172
of us are making.

1664
01:30:14,172 --> 01:30:18,404
And then I mentioned earlier,
condensed tannins and forges.

1665
01:30:18,404 --> 01:30:21,354
And so there have been
studies in the Southeast US

1666
01:30:21,354 --> 01:30:24,640
where they've seen that
grazing the forage legume,

1667
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:29,640
Sericea lespedeza for
four weeks or more as 25%

1668
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:33,900
of the diet or more reduced
the strongyle worm populations

1669
01:30:33,900 --> 01:30:35,250
in sheep and goats.

1670
01:30:35,250 --> 01:30:36,140
And they thought it was

1671
01:30:36,140 --> 01:30:39,951
because of the particular
condensed tannins in the plant.

1672
01:30:39,951 --> 01:30:44,380
And it seemed to both cause
that sheath to not come off

1673
01:30:44,380 --> 01:30:48,430
the L-4 larva, when the
L-3 got into the animal,

1674
01:30:48,430 --> 01:30:53,170
the L-4, the sheath did
not come up off the animal.

1675
01:30:53,170 --> 01:30:55,554
So the animal couldn't suck blood.

1676
01:30:55,554 --> 01:31:00,350
And so the animal, the worm die

1677
01:31:00,350 --> 01:31:03,210
and also it seemed to reduce hatching,

1678
01:31:03,210 --> 01:31:06,000
but Sericea lespedeza is not winter hardy

1679
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:07,250
in the Northeast US.

1680
01:31:07,250 --> 01:31:12,250
And it doesn't go to
blossom, it doesn't set seed

1681
01:31:12,655 --> 01:31:14,660
very easily in the Northeast US.

1682
01:31:14,660 --> 01:31:18,170
So instead in our studies, we
looked at Birdsfoot trefoil,

1683
01:31:18,170 --> 01:31:21,800
which also is fairly high in tannins.

1684
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:24,350
We didn't look at
Sainfoin because Sainfoin

1685
01:31:24,350 --> 01:31:26,930
doesn't grow well on acid or wet soils.

1686
01:31:26,930 --> 01:31:29,690
So it wasn't ideal for New
York where we have a lot

1687
01:31:29,690 --> 01:31:32,683
of high acid and wet soils.

1688
01:31:35,460 --> 01:31:38,150
Not all condensed tannins seem to work.

1689
01:31:38,150 --> 01:31:41,540
They've done studies with
Oak and peanut skins.

1690
01:31:41,540 --> 01:31:44,930
There have been variable
studies with grape pulp.

1691
01:31:44,930 --> 01:31:47,290
They did some studies at
University of Rhode Island

1692
01:31:47,290 --> 01:31:51,130
with cranberry leaves where
initially it seemed promising,

1693
01:31:51,130 --> 01:31:56,130
but it didn't work out that well.

1694
01:31:56,645 --> 01:32:01,140
Sericea lespedeza is a real
water, heavy water user.

1695
01:32:01,140 --> 01:32:06,140
And so it is considered
noxious weed in several states.

1696
01:32:06,350 --> 01:32:09,170
And it was used in the past.

1697
01:32:09,170 --> 01:32:14,170
NRCS used it as a erosion control plant,

1698
01:32:15,530 --> 01:32:19,170
but because that heavy
craving of water, as I said,

1699
01:32:19,170 --> 01:32:22,766
it is considered obnoxious
weed in some states.

1700
01:32:22,766 --> 01:32:27,766
At Tuskegee they've looked
at using ground pine bark

1701
01:32:28,751 --> 01:32:33,751
and as a major part of the diet.

1702
01:32:33,810 --> 01:32:37,389
But again, the animals
don't grow great on it.

1703
01:32:37,389 --> 01:32:41,570
So there's trade offs there.

1704
01:32:41,570 --> 01:32:44,383
So in our studies, keep going,

1705
01:32:47,090 --> 01:32:48,750
next slide.

1706
01:32:48,750 --> 01:32:52,265
So in our studies with
Birdsfoot trefoil so far

1707
01:32:52,265 --> 01:32:54,800
and I actually haven't analyzed the data

1708
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,100
from last year's studies.

1709
01:32:57,100 --> 01:33:00,643
It does appear that when
animals have a worm load,

1710
01:33:00,643 --> 01:33:05,643
particularly a barber pole
worm load, but even worm loads

1711
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:07,910
from other strongyle worms,

1712
01:33:07,910 --> 01:33:10,993
the animals that are
grazing Birdsfoot trefoil,

1713
01:33:10,993 --> 01:33:15,740
the wean lambs and kids
that are grazing it appear

1714
01:33:15,740 --> 01:33:20,052
to be more resilient as exhibited
by better FAMACHA scores

1715
01:33:20,052 --> 01:33:24,940
than animals who are on control pastures

1716
01:33:24,940 --> 01:33:28,413
on traditional pastures of mostly grass

1717
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:33,450
and some clover pastures.

1718
01:33:33,450 --> 01:33:36,450
But we don't know if that was
simply due to better nutrition

1719
01:33:36,450 --> 01:33:37,960
in a lot of our studies,

1720
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:40,800
the Birdsfoot trefoil pastures
are so high in protein

1721
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,693
and everything that the nutrition and TDN

1722
01:33:43,693 --> 01:33:46,130
that the nutrition was better.

1723
01:33:46,130 --> 01:33:49,020
And we don't know if there are compounds

1724
01:33:49,020 --> 01:33:51,670
in Birdsfoot trefoil that
boosts the immune system.

1725
01:33:51,670 --> 01:33:53,040
It's thought that there is.

1726
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:57,202
And so it may be an indirect
effect even though in the lab,

1727
01:33:57,202 --> 01:34:01,340
in Petri dishes, there
are different varieties

1728
01:34:01,340 --> 01:34:04,540
of Birdsfoot trefoil
that do affect egg laying

1729
01:34:04,540 --> 01:34:05,840
and do affect ensheathment

1730
01:34:07,350 --> 01:34:11,750
We did find that grass-fed
lambs and kids appear to grow

1731
01:34:11,750 --> 01:34:14,880
very well on lush
Birdsfoot trefoil pastures.

1732
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:18,246
We had grass-fed lambs
and kids that were growing

1733
01:34:18,246 --> 01:34:23,246
a third to a half a pound
a day on these pastures at,

1734
01:34:24,500 --> 01:34:25,333
which was better

1735
01:34:25,333 --> 01:34:28,620
than they were generally doing
on conventional pastures.

1736
01:34:28,620 --> 01:34:31,060
But we still don't know whether
grazing Birdsfoot trefoil

1737
01:34:31,060 --> 01:34:33,580
for at least four weeks
is helpful to control

1738
01:34:33,580 --> 01:34:34,930
the strongyle worms.

1739
01:34:34,930 --> 01:34:36,020
Our (indistinct) lambs and kids,

1740
01:34:36,020 --> 01:34:38,894
you would put them on these
Birdsfoot trefoil pastures.

1741
01:34:38,894 --> 01:34:41,690
And it's already also really
hard to maintain a pure stand,

1742
01:34:41,690 --> 01:34:43,620
a heavy stand of Birdsfoot trefoil.

1743
01:34:43,620 --> 01:34:47,403
It's out competed pretty
easily by clover and alfalfa.

1744
01:34:47,403 --> 01:34:50,100
(indistinct) where copper
oxide wire particles

1745
01:34:50,100 --> 01:34:52,491
are effective and barber
pole worms are present,

1746
01:34:52,491 --> 01:34:55,980
dosing with copper oxide wire particles

1747
01:34:55,980 --> 01:34:59,070
and feeding Birdsfoot trefoil
and the same for kids as well.

1748
01:34:59,070 --> 01:35:01,082
We ended up getting lower FAMACHA scores

1749
01:35:01,082 --> 01:35:05,560
and improved weight gains as
compared to only doing one

1750
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:06,393
or the other.

1751
01:35:06,393 --> 01:35:09,340
So in combination, they
seem to boost each other,

1752
01:35:09,340 --> 01:35:10,173
next slide.

1753
01:35:11,390 --> 01:35:12,910
But as far as being an acute dewormer,

1754
01:35:12,910 --> 01:35:16,729
the Birdsfoot trefoil so far,
hasn't shown that effect.

1755
01:35:16,729 --> 01:35:19,710
There's also now a crystal protein

1756
01:35:19,710 --> 01:35:22,770
of bacteria Bacillus
thuringiensis and you may be aware

1757
01:35:22,770 --> 01:35:26,476
of Bacillus thuringiensis
BT, from using it

1758
01:35:26,476 --> 01:35:29,240
for organic vegetable control

1759
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:30,940
for corn earworm and (indistinct).

1760
01:35:31,777 --> 01:35:35,197
And they've found that in
nematodes, in your crops

1761
01:35:35,197 --> 01:35:40,070
that Cry proteins from
BT eventually result

1762
01:35:40,070 --> 01:35:41,150
in death of the nematodes.

1763
01:35:41,150 --> 01:35:44,380
It intoxicates them and
they can't function well.

1764
01:35:44,380 --> 01:35:46,920
And then, it's not as
that it may not be stable

1765
01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:48,870
in the ruminant digestive tract.

1766
01:35:48,870 --> 01:35:53,870
So in a modified form
where the Cry5B crystals

1767
01:35:54,030 --> 01:35:58,049
are encapsulated within
dead BT cells walls in sheep

1768
01:35:58,049 --> 01:36:01,003
and reduced their fecal egg counts by 90%.

1769
01:36:02,057 --> 01:36:02,890
It seemed to be more effective

1770
01:36:02,890 --> 01:36:03,810
against female barber pole worms

1771
01:36:03,810 --> 01:36:05,200
than male barber pole worms.

1772
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:08,423
And it killed like 96%
of the female worms.

1773
01:36:09,270 --> 01:36:11,840
And it's been doing well
in the testing they've done

1774
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:13,810
this year on it as well.

1775
01:36:13,810 --> 01:36:16,908
One thing I forgot to mention
University of Rhode Island

1776
01:36:16,908 --> 01:36:20,336
was trying to do a study
with Dunningtonia flagrans

1777
01:36:20,336 --> 01:36:24,680
on last year with sheep.

1778
01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,760
And they had trouble with it
because they were mixing it

1779
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:31,870
into a trace mineral that
contained a Coccidia stat,

1780
01:36:31,870 --> 01:36:34,410
and they were getting no reaction with it

1781
01:36:34,410 --> 01:36:36,550
and it was not surviving.

1782
01:36:36,550 --> 01:36:40,728
And it seemed like the Coccidia
stat was actually killing

1783
01:36:40,728 --> 01:36:45,130
the fungus so that's
something to keep in mind

1784
01:36:45,130 --> 01:36:48,594
if you are using, if you
ever have an opportunity

1785
01:36:48,594 --> 01:36:51,667
to use the Duddingtonia, okay.

1786
01:36:52,650 --> 01:36:57,650
I also did talk today with the CEO

1787
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:02,010
of a company called Microbes Biological

1788
01:37:02,010 --> 01:37:06,720
that has a series of
compounds that they've,

1789
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:10,370
I don't know if they've
trademarked them yet.

1790
01:37:10,370 --> 01:37:11,900
I know they've registered the name.

1791
01:37:11,900 --> 01:37:14,458
I think they have the name with FDA,

1792
01:37:14,458 --> 01:37:19,458
it's called Intranet or
Intranem, NEM like nematode.

1793
01:37:23,436 --> 01:37:28,436
And it's been pretty effective
at killing crop nematodes

1794
01:37:30,530 --> 01:37:32,300
and they've used it on barber pole worm

1795
01:37:32,300 --> 01:37:33,970
and it seems to be effective.

1796
01:37:33,970 --> 01:37:36,370
They haven't gotten as far on studies,

1797
01:37:36,370 --> 01:37:40,760
as far as trying to do trials
to see what kind of dosage

1798
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:43,401
would be most effective
against barber pole worm.

1799
01:37:43,401 --> 01:37:46,735
But they believe it would be able

1800
01:37:46,735 --> 01:37:49,440
to be organically certified.

1801
01:37:49,440 --> 01:37:52,350
They are looking at it for meningeal worm,

1802
01:37:52,350 --> 01:37:55,410
but the scientists working
with them are thinking

1803
01:37:55,410 --> 01:37:56,700
that it's not gonna be able to pass

1804
01:37:56,700 --> 01:37:58,513
through the blood (indistinct).

1805
01:37:58,513 --> 01:37:59,839
It would be like Ivermec

1806
01:37:59,839 --> 01:38:02,100
and where if it does kill
deer worm, it would only

1807
01:38:02,100 --> 01:38:03,770
be killing it in early stages.

1808
01:38:03,770 --> 01:38:05,840
But they do wanna look at that more,

1809
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:08,870
but there's still many
years down the pipeline

1810
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:12,850
as far as development, but
they would be hoping to market

1811
01:38:12,850 --> 01:38:16,783
it as for organic farms.

1812
01:38:18,114 --> 01:38:21,610
So that's where I am
and I believe let's go.

1813
01:38:21,610 --> 01:38:24,510
But I think that's the last slide I have.

1814
01:38:24,510 --> 01:38:27,648
Yep. So finally questions
and thank you all

1815
01:38:27,648 --> 01:38:30,073
for being so patient.

1816
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:33,460
- Great. I'm just gonna step in and say

1817
01:38:33,460 --> 01:38:36,490
our captioner Jordan, who's
doing the live captioning

1818
01:38:36,490 --> 01:38:41,130
has to go 'cause we're over
time, but whoever else wants

1819
01:38:41,130 --> 01:38:44,427
to stay for question/answer
section, that's great.

1820
01:38:44,427 --> 01:38:46,610
- And we can also go through the quiz

1821
01:38:46,610 --> 01:38:49,420
if people have questions about
what are the right answers

1822
01:38:49,420 --> 01:38:50,263
on the quiz.

1823
01:38:56,333 --> 01:38:59,000
Okay. So since it's sounding
like there are no questions,

1824
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:02,730
Betsy, do you wanna go
over that quiz so much,

1825
01:39:02,730 --> 01:39:03,933
that quiz at all?

1826
01:39:05,530 --> 01:39:07,030
For people.

1827
01:39:07,030 --> 01:39:09,330
- [Betsy] I can, if people
are interested, it is late.

1828
01:39:09,330 --> 01:39:12,660
- Yeah. Is anyone interested
or do people wanna

1829
01:39:12,660 --> 01:39:16,290
just get off and they
would be no bad feelings

1830
01:39:16,290 --> 01:39:19,119
if you wanna get off and we
could probably even send you

1831
01:39:19,119 --> 01:39:22,780
the right answers to the
quiz so you can compare them.

1832
01:39:25,070 --> 01:39:26,970
- We can definitely send out that.

1833
01:39:26,970 --> 01:39:28,810
I don't know if that
interferes with the post,

1834
01:39:28,810 --> 01:39:29,933
the post quiz?

1835
01:39:31,260 --> 01:39:32,093
- Yeah.

1836
01:39:34,339 --> 01:39:36,550
- We can wait and send
it after our thing Monday

1837
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:37,888
if we need to.

1838
01:39:37,888 --> 01:39:41,093
- Yeah. So we can send
it after the post quiz.

1839
01:39:41,093 --> 01:39:43,320
We can send it out to people
or after we give people

1840
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:45,480
a few days to respond to the post quiz.

1841
01:39:45,480 --> 01:39:48,090
There is one question in chat
or is that just the thing

1842
01:39:48,090 --> 01:39:50,560
about yeah, people needing to hop off.

1843
01:39:50,560 --> 01:39:53,363
So I think probably
everyone needs to hop off.

1844
01:39:53,363 --> 01:39:56,140
So if no one, you're welcome to unmute.

1845
01:39:56,140 --> 01:39:59,562
If you have a question and
we'll stay on one more minute,

1846
01:39:59,562 --> 01:40:03,152
but if no one has a
question in the next minute,

1847
01:40:03,152 --> 01:40:08,152
I'm sure it'll be fantastic
for you guys to go be

1848
01:40:09,180 --> 01:40:11,883
with your families or
your flocks or your herds.

1849
01:40:13,500 --> 01:40:15,424
- [Cheryl] So I have one question.

1850
01:40:15,424 --> 01:40:16,660
- Okay, Cheryl.

1851
01:40:16,660 --> 01:40:18,500
- [Cheryl] Does anyone know if horsetails

1852
01:40:18,500 --> 01:40:20,333
are high in tannins?

1853
01:40:22,090 --> 01:40:24,100
- I don't know if horsetails are,

1854
01:40:24,100 --> 01:40:26,150
they're high in lignin.

1855
01:40:26,150 --> 01:40:29,660
but I'm not sure. I think.

1856
01:40:29,660 --> 01:40:31,670
I'm not sure I'll have to look that up.

1857
01:40:31,670 --> 01:40:34,390
They've got some other compounds in them,

1858
01:40:34,390 --> 01:40:38,990
which aren't the best
compounds in the world, but

1859
01:40:38,990 --> 01:40:41,671
I don't know if they're high in tannins.

1860
01:40:41,671 --> 01:40:46,671
Some examples of things
that are high in tannins

1861
01:40:46,740 --> 01:40:50,660
would be your sumac is
really high in tannins.

1862
01:40:50,660 --> 01:40:54,050
Anything that causes you to
pucker, your wild grapes,

1863
01:40:54,050 --> 01:40:57,850
but you wouldn't wanna get
them mixed up with moonseed

1864
01:40:57,850 --> 01:41:00,430
because moonseed is poisonous.

1865
01:41:00,430 --> 01:41:03,800
A lot of your brush plants
are pretty high in tannins.

1866
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:08,800
And so they're just, it's hard to know.

1867
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:14,060
And if you do learn how
to do fecal egg counting,

1868
01:41:14,060 --> 01:41:17,541
then one thing you can do
is compare before and after

1869
01:41:17,541 --> 01:41:21,344
with different herbs, you try and feed out

1870
01:41:21,344 --> 01:41:26,344
and different plants you
feed to see if they appear

1871
01:41:26,870 --> 01:41:30,360
to be at your farm, having
an effect on your animals.

1872
01:41:30,360 --> 01:41:32,660
- [Cheryl] My sheep were
self-selecting to eat them.

1873
01:41:32,660 --> 01:41:34,613
I was told they wouldn't and they did.

1874
01:41:35,568 --> 01:41:37,020
- So that's interesting.

1875
01:41:37,020 --> 01:41:41,590
- [Cheryl] So I was just curious
whether the thought process

1876
01:41:41,590 --> 01:41:43,560
would be that animals
maybe know what they need.

1877
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:44,570
And so they were eating them

1878
01:41:44,570 --> 01:41:46,320
'cause they needed something in them.

1879
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:49,320
- And, and what time of
year were they eating them?

1880
01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:51,053
- [Cheryl] It was springtime.

1881
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:55,060
- Was it fairly early in the spring?

1882
01:41:55,060 --> 01:41:57,340
- [Cheryl] It was early
in the spring and it was

1883
01:41:57,340 --> 01:42:00,330
when I first got them and they
pretty much eliminated them

1884
01:42:00,330 --> 01:42:03,260
from the area that they ate them in.

1885
01:42:03,260 --> 01:42:05,210
- Yeah 'cause one thing would be

1886
01:42:05,210 --> 01:42:08,420
because they are fairly high in lignin

1887
01:42:08,420 --> 01:42:11,030
even though early in the spring,
they're not nearly as high,

1888
01:42:11,030 --> 01:42:14,170
but because they are and
a lot of our pastures

1889
01:42:14,170 --> 01:42:19,170
in the earlier spring are sort of lacking

1890
01:42:19,580 --> 01:42:21,970
in fermentable fiber.

1891
01:42:21,970 --> 01:42:24,520
It may have been that
they were going for them

1892
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:26,690
because they had at that
point they had a lot

1893
01:42:26,690 --> 01:42:29,730
of cellulose rather
than lignin at the time

1894
01:42:29,730 --> 01:42:34,670
when a lot of your grasses are
high in soluble carbohydrates

1895
01:42:34,670 --> 01:42:39,500
rather than being quite as
high as optimal for the animals

1896
01:42:39,500 --> 01:42:40,980
in their cellulose.

1897
01:42:40,980 --> 01:42:43,820
So that may have been one
reason they were eating them.

1898
01:42:43,820 --> 01:42:47,040
I have to say as I think
about it, my animals,

1899
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:50,663
especially earlier in the
year do like them too. Okay.

1900
01:42:52,494 --> 01:42:55,827
- [Cheryl] And then what about
diatomaceous earth or garlic?

1901
01:42:56,850 --> 01:43:00,275
- Okay. So with garlic, there
have been some studies where,

1902
01:43:00,275 --> 01:43:05,275
it has seemed somewhat
beneficial and it certainly

1903
01:43:06,150 --> 01:43:11,080
has other health pluses
to it as far as garlic do.

1904
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:13,253
So it is pretty expensive,

1905
01:43:14,620 --> 01:43:18,480
but as far as diatomaceous
earth, there's been,

1906
01:43:18,480 --> 01:43:21,522
whenever they've done a
scientific study with it,

1907
01:43:21,522 --> 01:43:24,280
as far as it being an acute dewormer,

1908
01:43:24,280 --> 01:43:26,420
it hasn't seemed to be helpful.

1909
01:43:26,420 --> 01:43:29,190
And when they've looked at
it, I mean the only thing

1910
01:43:29,190 --> 01:43:32,596
I've seen is a couple of
studies out of the Southeast

1911
01:43:32,596 --> 01:43:37,596
where it seemed to dry out
the fecal pellet a little bit

1912
01:43:40,210 --> 01:43:45,210
and reduce the survival of
the L-1 and L-2 a little bit.

1913
01:43:45,810 --> 01:43:47,270
But it was very minimal.

1914
01:43:47,270 --> 01:43:52,270
I think it was and that
was when it was being fed

1915
01:43:53,590 --> 01:43:58,032
on a daily basis in pretty high dosages.

1916
01:43:58,032 --> 01:44:03,032
So it doesn't seem to be that
helpful for internal parasites

1917
01:44:03,500 --> 01:44:07,970
for external parasites on the
outside may have more effect,

1918
01:44:07,970 --> 01:44:10,170
but there are people who swear by it,

1919
01:44:10,170 --> 01:44:13,150
but you would want it
to be the feed quality

1920
01:44:13,150 --> 01:44:17,403
and not your fine powder that's
used for pools and stuff.

1921
01:44:18,500 --> 01:44:19,550
- [Cheryl] Thank you.

1922
01:44:23,690 --> 01:44:26,193
- So shall we go ahead and quit with that?

1923
01:44:29,390 --> 01:44:32,380
And thank you all.

1924
01:44:32,380 --> 01:44:33,620
- Thank you, Tatiana.

1925
01:44:33,620 --> 01:44:34,653
Thank you, Betsy.