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National Maple Market
Development and Policy.

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I'm excited to give this presentation.

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There's been a lot of activity
that I've been involved

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in over the past, let
me say, 12 to 15 months.

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And there are definitely people I think,

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on this meeting tonight,
and certainly people

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at the different organizations
that have maybe been active

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in these conversations for
a lot longer than I have.

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So I'm gonna basically
share with you the efforts

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that I'm involved in right
now through a working group

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with the International
Maple Syrup Institute

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and how it connects to this
bigger opportunity slash

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question about a national Maple
Market Development Program,

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and just the different policy implications

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that are out there as it
relates to maple and promotion.

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You folks have probably
seen this website before.

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Definitely wanna make
people aware of that.

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That's where all the registrations are

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and we've been adding resources.

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I know that Mark Isselhardt has a number

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of maple sugarbush videos that
should be going on to YouTube

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in the next couple of days,
if they're not there already.

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And I think there'll be some links either

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on this maplemanager.org site

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or through the UVM
extension Maple website.

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Okay, tonight's the 14th.

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We got a couple more sessions next week.

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I'll do a presentation

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on Maple Financial
Planning and Profitability,

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and then we're gonna have a week gap

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on Wednesday, October 5th.

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Chris Lindgren is gonna
give a presentation

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on SAP business models for those
that are just producing SAP

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and then transferring the SAP
to another maple business.

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And overview of what's coming on tonight,

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it's not gonna pop up.

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Here's the outlook for the next hour.

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I'm gonna give a little bit
of maple marketing history,

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very little, but just put some
things in historical context.

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Also, give a little overview of a couple

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of the agricultural
policy laws that relate

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to this topic area of market development.

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Quick look at current
market research projects

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that have become available to the public.

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And then at that point, I'm
really gonna transition,

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and talk about this process
that I've been involved in

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with the International
Maple Syrup Institute,

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an active sustainable funding committee

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looking at market development.

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And that'll lead us into a
little bit more information

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on different governance frameworks

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for this concept of collective marketing.

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And it can be a couple different formats.

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I'll just say that by no means
is this presentation meant

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to decide or advocate
for a particular action.

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I've talked to a lot of maple producers,

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on and off and producer associations,

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and this is a theme that's coming up.

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People are asking this question of,

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"Could there be some collective

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Maple Market Development Programs?

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How would that happen?

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What would it look like?"

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And so this presentation
is intended really

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to get some awareness up,

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some of the different
features and the concepts,

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and hopefully get a
little discussion going,

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hopefully by 7:45, 7:50,
we can open up the mic

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and get people's feedback on it.

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Okay, so just a tradition of promotion.

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Certainly maple has
been an iconic product,

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in different ways over
the past couple centuries.

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And I'm gonna be speaking predominantly

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from a US perspective.

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Definitely back in the 1800s

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when maple syrup reached its
highest level of production

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in the US it was
definitely considered more

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of a utility product,

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not quite the specialty
product it is today.

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For those of you that have looked

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at any of the statistics,

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you'll know that US maple
production peaked somewhere

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in the 1860s to the 1890s.

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I found this fact that it's
estimated based on population

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at the time that the US
per capita consumption

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was around 28 ounces during those periods.

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So that's just shy of two
pounds per person or per capita.

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A couple quotes I think
are really interesting,

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and some of you have seen these
in the maple history books,

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especially around the World
War, I'm sorry, Civil War era.

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There was a connection,
kind of a patriotic theme

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about keeping to domestic sweeteners.

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So there's this quote,
"Make your own sugar

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and send not to the Indies for it.

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Feast not on the toil, pain,
and misery of the wretched."

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I don't really want to
get into a conversation

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on slavery, but I do wanna make a note

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that when we start
talking about an industry

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and promotion, communication
and efforts like this are in

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that world of driving
consumption, driving markets

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toward a particular group of products.

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An unfortunate time in global history here

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and it was directing
people back towards maple.

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This other quote I'm always fascinated by,

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"Open Kettle Maple Syrup," and that comes

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from a UVM extension experiment
station report in 1905.

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And there's context on that,
and the report from the writer,

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and the context is that
basically even at that point

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in 1905, there were producers
that wanted to make a claim

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to consumers about this nostalgic nature

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of Open Kettle Maple Syrup.

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I'm not exactly sure the
era of when flat pans

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or different flue pans came into use,

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but I'm pretty sure from my recollection

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that it was related to that.

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And just to say that if any
of you or you're involved

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or you've seen the promotions
for woodfired maple syrup

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or non-RO maple syrup,
nothing wrong with the claim,

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just it's not a new thing for
people to be making claims,

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and maybe in this case, this
was an idea really pulling back

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to a traditional mindset.

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Moving even back to open kettles compared

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to what maybe the new fangled
technology was of the day.

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So these claims are not new.

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There's always modern technology

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and there's maybe a prior way of doing it.

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I just wanna emphasize that
as we move from the 1860s

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and 1890s at peak production in the US,

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we really saw a massive drop
in maple syrup production,

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historically maple sugar, maple syrup.

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And at this point, I'd say we
really are in this transition

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or continuing into be in this transition

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towards a luxury specialty product,

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which is different dynamic than
it was a hundred years ago,

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which has implications to
consumers and market development.

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I'd like to make a mention
on grading and standards.

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I think often we talk about promotion,

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people often shift
towards marketing claims,

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and features and advertisement.

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I just wanna emphasize,

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and this will relate to the USDA programs,

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we'll talk about in a bit,
you know, the relevance

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of standard and grading in
the concept of promotion.

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Standards and grading,
definitely, you know,

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they support information flow

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and they improve that efficiency

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so people know what they're gonna get.

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So if I can read the
definition a little bit more

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from the USDA, standards
and grading offer a means

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to evaluate level of quality and value.

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They improve information flow

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and they improve
efficiency of transactions.

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Many of you recognize the
recent history shifting

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from the historic maple grading system

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to the more modern grades.

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Well, the 2015 standards
that have been established

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and the shifting from the grade A

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and the grade B to now, our grade A is

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from golden down to very dark.

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So I just wanna try to grab that concept.

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We're talking about everything
from marketing claims

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and features of a product,
the process of how it's made,

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whether it's open kettles
or a steam fire evaporator.

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But then also these ideas of standards

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and grades certainly relate to this idea

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of communicating to consumers

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and facilitating the flow of product

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through the marketplace.

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Taking a look back at US food
policy that's relevant here,

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2000, I'm sorry, 1902, False
Branding and Marketing Act,

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was an early phase law that
was trying to remedy this issue

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of false origin.

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False claims of where
something was coming from,

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and if you go back into the history,

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there were issues about state claims

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of different, you know,
sources of potatoes

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and where they were coming
from, trying to clean that up.

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That led to the 1906
Federal Food and Drugs Act,

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embodied some of the 1902 rules,

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and then it definitely
went a level farther

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and started to specifically
call out the prohibition

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of interstate commerce
for adulterated foods.

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And I'll put economic adulterated foods.

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Maple is definitely in the history

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and related to the evolution of this law,

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the concept of cutting maple syrup

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with cheaper sucrose,
cheaper sugar options.

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It could be, I guess,
less easy to identify.

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So the concept of economic adulteration,

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not to say contaminate something,

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but to do something to
change the cost of the good

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and potentially still chase
a premium in the marketplace.

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And then these drugs have
certainly been adapted

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and evolved and the 1938, Federal
Food Drug and Cosmetic Act

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continued to build upon these rules.

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So I just wanna, I wanted
to point out origin

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and adulteration and certainly
and maple being relevant

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to these historic national policy laws.

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Then we get to 1922,
the Capper-Volsted Act.

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This is relevant for our conversation

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on collective marketing.

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So in 1922, this act was passed

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and it gave agricultural producers

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and their associations
basically the ability

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to act together and it
gave them this exemption,

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or limited exemption, from what
we consider antitrust rules.

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That meaning that producers
could get together

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and discuss things about the marketplace,

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discuss things about price
and not fall foul of the law.

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So the '22 Capper-Volstead Act

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does something really important
for agricultural producers

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in saying, "Yes, you can work together,

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individual producers can
band together in associations

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and multiple associations
can band together,

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and it won't be considered
collusion if you work together

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to discuss the dynamics
of marketing, expansion,

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even production and pricing."

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Another feature of the
Volstead Act is this concept

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of consumer protection.

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It's a little vague, and
I'm not an ag policy expert

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just yet, but there is
clauses, there are clauses,

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that protect consumers from
undue price enhancements

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that result from monopoly positions.

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So it's, I think, subjective
the way I understand it.

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But I'm sure there's laws
or court cases historically

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that have looked at when producer
groups have actually been

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in the right in saying
they're discussing pricing

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and supply, and when that
potentially those decisions

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could cause undue stress on consumers.

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And there is a line there
that could be crossed,

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that could say maybe they've gone too far.

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Another historical marketing agreement,

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1937 Agricultural Marketing Agreement Act.

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This is gonna be relevant.

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This is basically the formative law

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that will lead us to
maybe 15 minutes from now

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when I start talking

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about the agricultural
marketing service programs

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we've been looking at.

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In 1937, this act provided the authority

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for federal marketing orders
and marketing agreements.

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So at the time, this is New Deal era,

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and at the time coming off of

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or within the depression period,

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there was a situation of
large agricultural surpluses

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in the United States, also
declining foreign markets

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and kind of a whole host of pricing

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and distribution problems and
this was put into the toolbox

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as a mechanism for
industries to be able to,

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agricultural industries, to be able to,

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enact these agreements,
to do something like

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what the Capper-Volstead Act said.

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Basically to work
together and to strategize

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on the dynamics of supply demand, price

255
00:11:55,830 --> 00:11:58,590
and a few other things,
we'll get into today.

256
00:11:58,590 --> 00:12:02,610
It's a pretty quick walk
down memory lane there.

257
00:12:02,610 --> 00:12:06,157
So leading from that
history in the early 1900s

258
00:12:06,157 --> 00:12:11,157
into 2000, 2022 today,

259
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:15,754
but in 2021, the International
Maple Syrup Institute

260
00:12:15,754 --> 00:12:18,780
established a sustainable
funding committee.

261
00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:19,830
So what were the goals?

262
00:12:19,830 --> 00:12:21,421
What were the goals of this committee?

263
00:12:21,421 --> 00:12:24,780
To investigate frameworks
for funding the promotion

264
00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:27,953
and marketing of primarily
pure maple syrup?

265
00:12:27,953 --> 00:12:32,953
The committee based on
producers and industry leaders

266
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,920
in manufacturing, packaging
and distribution wanted

267
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,900
to advance the investigation
of this concept

268
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:43,410
of a self-funded mechanism,
meaning that the funding is

269
00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:45,393
coming from the producers themselves.

270
00:12:46,328 --> 00:12:48,030
I'll leave that there.

271
00:12:48,030 --> 00:12:49,287
So a self-funded mechanism.

272
00:12:49,287 --> 00:12:51,360
I just wanna note the committee

273
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:52,815
as we've got some members here.

274
00:12:52,815 --> 00:12:55,304
I was asked, I was invited
to join the committee.

275
00:12:55,304 --> 00:12:57,210
We've got some on the call tonight,

276
00:12:57,210 --> 00:13:00,510
at least six states in
case I've missed somebody.

277
00:13:00,510 --> 00:13:02,430
We've got producers,
we've got syrup buyers,

278
00:13:02,430 --> 00:13:04,446
maple distributors and equipment dealers

279
00:13:04,446 --> 00:13:06,824
discussing this concept.

280
00:13:06,824 --> 00:13:10,260
And as I said earlier, this presentation

281
00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:11,940
and hopefully discussion's a lot

282
00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:13,877
about awareness and dialogue.

283
00:13:13,877 --> 00:13:15,660
In this group alone, we've had

284
00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:19,279
so many opinions, great ideas,
great input and contention

285
00:13:19,279 --> 00:13:22,047
on this concept of collective marketing

286
00:13:22,047 --> 00:13:24,279
within the United States.

287
00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:26,118
By no means is it a foregone conclusion

288
00:13:26,118 --> 00:13:29,550
about how it will
happen, but the one thing

289
00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:31,370
that I think sticks everyone
on this committee together

290
00:13:31,370 --> 00:13:34,140
is the belief that this
is worth investigating,

291
00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:36,120
this is worth exploring.

292
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,497
Is there a mechanism that we
can enhance our market presence

293
00:13:39,497 --> 00:13:44,460
in the maple community or
for the maple community?

294
00:13:44,460 --> 00:13:47,817
So what are the rationale of
this committee in general?

295
00:13:47,817 --> 00:13:51,690
Advances in technology,
expansion of maple taps

296
00:13:51,690 --> 00:13:55,200
in the US and Canada, an
increase in annual maple crops.

297
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,360
This is the reality,
and you can all see that

298
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,010
from the statistics and
you know that probably

299
00:13:59,010 --> 00:14:01,620
from your business and your peers.

300
00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:04,140
We've got more maple
syrup out there generally,

301
00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:05,940
and we continue to hit record crops.

302
00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:08,930
There's a desire to
ensure market development

303
00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:13,376
and market expansion occur
at pace with the increase

304
00:14:13,376 --> 00:14:16,611
in maple syrup supply.

305
00:14:16,611 --> 00:14:21,000
We can all look at other
agricultural specialty crops

306
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,320
and commodities in Vermont.

307
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,330
We're very keen on looking
at the dairy industry

308
00:14:24,330 --> 00:14:26,670
and we're very attuned to what the concept

309
00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:29,070
of oversupply means for pricing

310
00:14:29,070 --> 00:14:33,000
and what price volatility
means for producer livelihood.

311
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,000
So this committee and this
charge is definitely based

312
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,940
on this concept of, we
need to be active as

313
00:14:38,940 --> 00:14:40,920
an industry looking at market development,

314
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,691
especially if production and
volume is going to increase.

315
00:14:44,691 --> 00:14:47,280
And we recognize the balance of demand

316
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,128
in pricing this whole concept
that market development

317
00:14:50,128 --> 00:14:53,010
and promoting demand
potentially has impact

318
00:14:53,010 --> 00:14:55,601
to either elevate prices or
at least stabilize prices

319
00:14:55,601 --> 00:14:59,550
or prevent pricing shocks.

320
00:14:59,550 --> 00:15:03,030
So looking at the US maple
situation a little bit more.

321
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:05,040
We know that the United
States is the largest market

322
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,735
for maple syrup globally.

323
00:15:06,735 --> 00:15:10,200
The majority of the syrup
on the globe is produced

324
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,460
in Quebec and a good
deal of that is imported.

325
00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:16,765
Exported from Quebec imported
into the United States,

326
00:15:16,765 --> 00:15:21,765
roughly 60/40 Canada US syrup makes up

327
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:24,879
the US domestic supply and
I think that number has

328
00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:27,420
been coming closer to 50/50.

329
00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:30,282
So it may be something
like 55% Canadian syrup

330
00:15:30,282 --> 00:15:35,282
to 45% American syrup that
makes up the US consumption.

331
00:15:37,015 --> 00:15:41,250
So we know we have an
increasing supply domestically

332
00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:44,899
as the US production grows and
there's also the recognition

333
00:15:44,899 --> 00:15:47,163
of the PPAQ, the producer,

334
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,993
Quebec Maple Producers Association,

335
00:15:49,993 --> 00:15:53,850
that they have been operating

336
00:15:53,850 --> 00:15:55,483
with an evolving market management system

337
00:15:55,483 --> 00:15:58,410
that's included promotional efforts.

338
00:15:58,410 --> 00:16:01,560
We've also have learned, some
of you may know directly,

339
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,230
I hear through the grapevine that the PPAQ

340
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:05,763
has been investing generic promotion

341
00:16:05,763 --> 00:16:08,970
into the United States to prop
up this market development

342
00:16:08,970 --> 00:16:10,620
and there's serious considerations

343
00:16:10,620 --> 00:16:14,203
about how those priorities
from the PPAQ potentially

344
00:16:14,203 --> 00:16:16,476
will shift or have been shifting

345
00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:20,880
as international, other
global markets potentially

346
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,303
show growth opportunity as well.

347
00:16:24,303 --> 00:16:25,777
I've got a question from Nick.

348
00:16:25,777 --> 00:16:27,900
"Is there a strong
difference in US consumption

349
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:31,195
by state or relatively equal?"

350
00:16:31,195 --> 00:16:33,870
You know, and in a
couple of minutes, Nick,

351
00:16:33,870 --> 00:16:36,270
I'm gonna pull up some new market research

352
00:16:36,270 --> 00:16:37,170
that's been available.

353
00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:38,719
I won't be able to answer that question.

354
00:16:38,719 --> 00:16:43,719
I'm gonna say just off the cuff here,

355
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,210
from talking to people
leaders in the maple industry,

356
00:16:48,210 --> 00:16:51,384
I'd say there is definitely
strong consumption

357
00:16:51,384 --> 00:16:53,399
in the traditional maple-producing regions

358
00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:56,695
of New England and the northern Midwest.

359
00:16:56,695 --> 00:16:59,162
We can expect higher consumption rates.

360
00:16:59,162 --> 00:17:02,673
I gotta see if the market
research would bear that out.

361
00:17:02,673 --> 00:17:05,700
I think there's also a
collective understanding

362
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:07,187
that there's huge opportunities

363
00:17:07,187 --> 00:17:10,321
and priorities about expanding demand

364
00:17:10,321 --> 00:17:13,530
in the non-maple producing region.

365
00:17:13,530 --> 00:17:15,627
So the other states of the United States

366
00:17:15,627 --> 00:17:20,550
and the southeast and
southwest and far west.

367
00:17:20,550 --> 00:17:24,090
An intentional, an
awareness to be intentional

368
00:17:24,090 --> 00:17:26,084
about getting product
into those marketplaces,

369
00:17:26,084 --> 00:17:28,710
especially in some of
the local regions here

370
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:31,204
where people are really
experiencing strong competition

371
00:17:31,204 --> 00:17:34,923
in the marketplace trying
to sell syrup locally.

372
00:17:36,475 --> 00:17:41,475
I wanna look over on the
right-hand side, another rationale

373
00:17:45,060 --> 00:17:48,627
for considering these options
of market development.

374
00:17:48,627 --> 00:17:52,920
2020 report out of Quebec looked
at per capita consumption.

375
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,145
This is in kilograms, so I'm
not gonna do conversions.

376
00:17:56,145 --> 00:18:01,145
The all Canada per capita
maple syrup consumption, 2020

377
00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:04,395
was 0.62 kilograms.

378
00:18:04,395 --> 00:18:09,395
Look at the US, all US per
capita consumption estimate

379
00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:15,690
at 0.16 kilograms per capita.

380
00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:18,810
And then look at the Quebec
per capita consumption.

381
00:18:18,810 --> 00:18:23,810
1.4 kilograms per capita
in Quebec in 2020.

382
00:18:24,624 --> 00:18:27,000
I don't have the honey stat up here.

383
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,917
I may reference honey as
the presentation goes on.

384
00:18:29,917 --> 00:18:33,699
Honey is, you know, I would
say a direct substitute

385
00:18:33,699 --> 00:18:38,699
in the sense that it's a
premium specialty sweetener more

386
00:18:40,590 --> 00:18:42,480
on the natural lightly processed side

387
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,030
that maple definitely competes with.

388
00:18:45,030 --> 00:18:48,450
And I can't tell you the number,

389
00:18:48,450 --> 00:18:50,670
but that report's got
the honey consumption

390
00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:52,140
and it's definitely higher.

391
00:18:52,140 --> 00:18:53,430
Oh, thanks Arnie.

392
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:57,333
35 ounces in a kilogram.

393
00:18:58,170 --> 00:19:00,945
So point of reference there,
if it's 35 ounces in a kilogram

394
00:19:00,945 --> 00:19:04,722
and the US consumption
right now is 0.16 kilograms,

395
00:19:04,722 --> 00:19:08,310
I think that earlier 1860 stat had us

396
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:13,080
at somewhere around 28 ounces
of per capita consumption

397
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:14,280
in the US.

398
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,762
So, how do I say this?

399
00:19:17,762 --> 00:19:20,460
I don't know if we can
say that maple markets

400
00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:22,637
are falling apart at all,
and we don't wanna say that,

401
00:19:22,637 --> 00:19:24,757
but when you look at a
chart like this and you say,

402
00:19:24,757 --> 00:19:27,210
"Huh, what would happen

403
00:19:27,210 --> 00:19:30,867
if the all US per capita
maple consumption quadrupled

404
00:19:32,370 --> 00:19:35,190
to get to the all Canada
number around a little,

405
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:37,395
around a half a kilogram?

406
00:19:37,395 --> 00:19:39,790
What would that mean for prices?

407
00:19:39,790 --> 00:19:44,005
What would that mean for
maple syrup movement?"

408
00:19:44,005 --> 00:19:45,390
These are the questions

409
00:19:45,390 --> 00:19:49,680
that I think this project
is trying to get at.

410
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:50,513
There we go.

411
00:19:50,513 --> 00:19:51,346
Okay, Nick hit us right?

412
00:19:51,346 --> 00:19:54,120
Looks like the honey consumption could be

413
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:58,620
at 1.8 pounds per person and
US maple syrup consumption

414
00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:03,570
still almost 1/4 of a pound,
0.25 pounds per person compared

415
00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:04,403
to honey at 1.8.

416
00:20:05,427 --> 00:20:08,220
So the you know, the question
is, well what are we doing?

417
00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:09,990
We seem to be moving our annual crop here,

418
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:13,590
but are we actually moving
the market in the direction

419
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:16,247
that our competitors
are moving the market?

420
00:20:16,247 --> 00:20:20,460
Whether it's competitors
moving syrup in other locales

421
00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:22,884
or if it's a competing product like honey

422
00:20:22,884 --> 00:20:25,140
and they could potentially be

423
00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:29,220
on a positive growth trajectory
for per capita consumption.

424
00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:32,501
So more numbers from that Canadian report,

425
00:20:32,501 --> 00:20:36,644
Canada consumption up 42% from 2016,

426
00:20:36,644 --> 00:20:40,470
2016 to 2020 up 42% growth.

427
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:43,980
United States up 18%,
that's not a bad number,

428
00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:45,949
positive 18% growth is good.

429
00:20:45,949 --> 00:20:47,550
But again, the head scratcher,

430
00:20:47,550 --> 00:20:50,850
why is Canadian consumption up
42 and why are we only up 18?

431
00:20:50,850 --> 00:20:53,250
Are are we leaving something
on the table there?

432
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,310
And I mentioned this earlier,
I do think there's a lot

433
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:59,047
of recognition that US growth
outlook could be very strong

434
00:20:59,047 --> 00:21:02,730
as we move out of non-maple
producing regions.

435
00:21:02,730 --> 00:21:04,110
That's not to mean it's a slam dunk.

436
00:21:04,110 --> 00:21:05,520
There's a lot of cultural distinctions

437
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,839
and sweetener preferences, but I do think

438
00:21:08,839 --> 00:21:11,969
there's a kind of a bullish mentality

439
00:21:11,969 --> 00:21:14,690
that if we can get this
product in those other regions,

440
00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:18,600
we could definitely see some more growth.

441
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,577
The question came up about
consumption in other states,

442
00:21:20,577 --> 00:21:22,230
and I would say this is the place to go.

443
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:23,980
I can't click in there
while I'm presenting,

444
00:21:23,980 --> 00:21:27,789
but specifically the second
bullet there, the maple maps,

445
00:21:27,789 --> 00:21:30,677
this is available I think if you Google,

446
00:21:30,677 --> 00:21:32,790
maybe before we end, I'll try to find it

447
00:21:32,790 --> 00:21:36,330
and put it in the chat or
if anyone's double tasking

448
00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:39,453
and can type in maplemaps.gitlab.

449
00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:44,644
I think that's the server
or one of the addresses.

450
00:21:44,644 --> 00:21:47,460
This came out of the
University of Southern Maine

451
00:21:47,460 --> 00:21:49,470
in cooperation with the
Atlantic Corporation,

452
00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:51,557
kind of a very interactive mapping option.

453
00:21:51,557 --> 00:21:54,030
And there's a number of different things

454
00:21:54,030 --> 00:21:55,949
on preferences and consumption.

455
00:21:55,949 --> 00:21:58,020
Good, it's popping up in the chat.

456
00:21:58,020 --> 00:22:00,780
So this would be, to answer
that earlier question

457
00:22:00,780 --> 00:22:02,071
about state consumption,

458
00:22:02,071 --> 00:22:03,930
I don't know if we'll see it in per capita

459
00:22:03,930 --> 00:22:07,144
or if we'll see it maybe
in dollar value purchases.

460
00:22:07,144 --> 00:22:10,115
So I'd encourage maybe
someone to check that out.

461
00:22:10,115 --> 00:22:13,920
So we've got that Maple Maps
and that link popped up.

462
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,840
The other one that came up definitely

463
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,708
over a year and a half ago,

464
00:22:17,708 --> 00:22:18,750
the Vermont Maple Data Dashboard.

465
00:22:18,750 --> 00:22:21,570
Another interactive one based on research,

466
00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:22,770
again with the Atlantic Corp

467
00:22:22,770 --> 00:22:25,110
and the Vermont Agency of Agriculture,

468
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:26,867
looking at different consumer preferences

469
00:22:26,867 --> 00:22:31,543
and starting to disentangle
like where are the features?

470
00:22:31,543 --> 00:22:33,120
What's the packaging?

471
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,046
Where's are the sales
of maple coming from?

472
00:22:37,046 --> 00:22:39,390
I don't have a site, and I don't
know if it's published yet,

473
00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:40,800
but I just wanna reference

474
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,676
the New York State Maple
Producer Association.

475
00:22:43,676 --> 00:22:46,700
Helen Thomas has been recently presenting

476
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:49,710
on consumer demand research

477
00:22:49,710 --> 00:22:51,390
and results that they've been developing.

478
00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:52,823
They're midway through a project

479
00:22:52,823 --> 00:22:56,277
and the one thing that I
heard from looking at one

480
00:22:56,277 --> 00:22:58,581
of the presentation notes was,

481
00:22:58,581 --> 00:23:01,620
what they're finding is
there's a lot of, there's

482
00:23:01,620 --> 00:23:03,057
some people that are committed to syrup,

483
00:23:03,057 --> 00:23:04,290
and if I say this right,

484
00:23:04,290 --> 00:23:06,510
there's a number of consumers out there

485
00:23:06,510 --> 00:23:07,620
that actually aren't able

486
00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:10,860
to accurately identify pure maple syrup

487
00:23:10,860 --> 00:23:13,089
as something different from

488
00:23:13,089 --> 00:23:16,830
what we'll call the corn
syrup-based table syrups

489
00:23:16,830 --> 00:23:17,875
like the Log Cabins.

490
00:23:17,875 --> 00:23:22,770
So really important research
there that indicates

491
00:23:22,770 --> 00:23:25,470
that yes, there are some
really loyal maple supporters,

492
00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:28,140
but there could be a large
portion of the population

493
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:30,780
that really does not get it yet.

494
00:23:30,780 --> 00:23:32,425
They have not got the
educational messaging

495
00:23:32,425 --> 00:23:35,100
about pure maple syrup
and they're not able

496
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:38,490
to identify those pure
products compared to some

497
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:42,273
of the other options
within the grocery store.

498
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:45,240
So this market research is popping up

499
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,340
and I just wanna make sure
that people are aware of it.

500
00:23:47,340 --> 00:23:49,170
The rest of this session
really we're gonna shift

501
00:23:49,170 --> 00:23:50,820
into this concept of, well,

502
00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:52,980
what would a collective
marketing promotion look like?

503
00:23:52,980 --> 00:23:54,180
I think if you're a business owner,

504
00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:56,035
these options are really
gonna help you fine tune your

505
00:23:56,035 --> 00:23:59,257
specific based business strategy,

506
00:23:59,257 --> 00:24:01,650
but these also provide the information

507
00:24:01,650 --> 00:24:05,733
that could inform a collective
strategy from broader groups.

508
00:24:06,958 --> 00:24:10,110
So it's exciting to see
that information coming out

509
00:24:10,110 --> 00:24:13,300
and I know there'll be
more results being shared.

510
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:18,120
So this concept of collective promotion,

511
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,180
the idea of multiple
agricultural producers working

512
00:24:21,180 --> 00:24:23,327
on a market development together.

513
00:24:23,327 --> 00:24:25,320
Definition, generic promotion.

514
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,600
I think it's really difficult
to use the word generic

515
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:28,729
when we're talking about maple syrup.

516
00:24:28,729 --> 00:24:30,690
I've talked to a few people

517
00:24:30,690 --> 00:24:32,307
and they cringe at the idea,

518
00:24:32,307 --> 00:24:34,680
but I think it's important to emphasize,

519
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,535
when we say generic promotion,

520
00:24:36,535 --> 00:24:41,002
we're really talking
about not this private

521
00:24:41,002 --> 00:24:44,497
or branded product promotion
or product advertisements,

522
00:24:44,497 --> 00:24:48,072
but this idea of raising
consumer and buyer awareness

523
00:24:48,072 --> 00:24:50,100
for a group of products.

524
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:52,344
In this case, pure maple syrup

525
00:24:52,344 --> 00:24:56,310
or a key ingredient to
benefit market development

526
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:59,250
for the entirety of the
participants in the sector.

527
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:00,600
And I think that's key.

528
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,330
We're trying to raise awareness
about a group of products,

529
00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:05,107
not a particular branded product.

530
00:25:05,107 --> 00:25:08,280
And we're trying to raise that awareness

531
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,200
for the benefit of all the participants,

532
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,370
meaning all the producers.

533
00:25:11,370 --> 00:25:14,370
So collective group puts
information out there

534
00:25:14,370 --> 00:25:15,379
about pure maple syrup,

535
00:25:15,379 --> 00:25:17,719
consumers understand pure maple syrup

536
00:25:17,719 --> 00:25:21,060
and however they get back, they get back

537
00:25:21,060 --> 00:25:25,620
to a purchase moment, back
to the private brands.

538
00:25:25,620 --> 00:25:27,405
But we're not talking
about the private brand.

539
00:25:27,405 --> 00:25:30,060
Another definition I think is important

540
00:25:30,060 --> 00:25:32,100
and our committee, I
think sometimes forgets

541
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:33,852
to check ourselves with
what we're talking about,

542
00:25:33,852 --> 00:25:35,460
the idea of demand here.

543
00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:37,975
So demand economically, the desire to own

544
00:25:37,975 --> 00:25:39,124
or consume something.

545
00:25:39,124 --> 00:25:43,380
So the goal in the context of
collective market development

546
00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:47,422
would be to increase demand
over time, to maintain price

547
00:25:47,422 --> 00:25:51,570
or potentially apply reasonable
upward pressure on price

548
00:25:51,570 --> 00:25:54,780
that could sustain or enhance
producer purchasing power.

549
00:25:54,780 --> 00:25:58,150
This was the issue in the 1920s and '30s

550
00:25:59,008 --> 00:26:00,847
from some of those old
agricultural acts that I mentioned.

551
00:26:00,847 --> 00:26:03,780
Producer purchasing power was in decline

552
00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:05,953
because there was a
surplus and prices dropped,

553
00:26:05,953 --> 00:26:08,605
which meant there wasn't
enough money moving

554
00:26:08,605 --> 00:26:12,529
into the producer's pockets to enable them

555
00:26:12,529 --> 00:26:14,070
to run their business

556
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:18,690
and, you know, keep the
rural economies uplifted.

557
00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:22,081
So the idea of demand is the
idea of getting that desire

558
00:26:22,081 --> 00:26:24,117
to own or consume something up,

559
00:26:24,117 --> 00:26:26,136
and I wanna emphasize over time.

560
00:26:26,136 --> 00:26:28,500
And then I'm gonna flip
the next definition,

561
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:30,924
so demand is increased over time.

562
00:26:30,924 --> 00:26:32,820
That is different than sales here.

563
00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:35,622
We're not talking about actual sales

564
00:26:35,622 --> 00:26:37,560
during a specific period of time.

565
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,990
So the concept of sale is
the transaction, right?

566
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:41,040
The transaction of a good

567
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,710
and the exchange for a dollar here.

568
00:26:43,710 --> 00:26:48,365
This is not talking about
how to get the participant

569
00:26:48,365 --> 00:26:52,308
on this webinar to sell out this year.

570
00:26:52,308 --> 00:26:53,490
That's great.

571
00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:55,050
You know, we want that to happen.

572
00:26:55,050 --> 00:26:57,870
This is about building
the demand over time

573
00:26:57,870 --> 00:27:00,152
so that the marketplace is expanding.

574
00:27:00,152 --> 00:27:01,849
And here's the dilemma.

575
00:27:01,849 --> 00:27:04,050
If Arnie, I'm gonna pick on Arnie.

576
00:27:04,050 --> 00:27:07,590
If Arnie sells out this
year, that's great.

577
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:10,350
That hasn't grown the market.

578
00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:13,311
Arnie's outta syrup,
he can't sell anymore.

579
00:27:13,311 --> 00:27:16,020
So the idea of building demand is saying,

580
00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:17,290
we don't want people to sell out and say,

581
00:27:17,290 --> 00:27:19,470
"Well we can't supply
anymore, we're sold out."

582
00:27:19,470 --> 00:27:21,414
It's the idea that you want
that demand to be building

583
00:27:21,414 --> 00:27:24,570
and building and building
as the production

584
00:27:24,570 --> 00:27:26,130
and supply builds as well.

585
00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:27,600
So we're trying to grow the market.

586
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,360
We're not trying to empty
the warehouse and be done.

587
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:32,883
We're trying to build them to over time.

588
00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:35,400
Another definition that's
worth mentioning here,

589
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,150
advertisement communication to persuade

590
00:27:39,150 --> 00:27:41,288
or motivate consumers
to purchase now, right?

591
00:27:41,288 --> 00:27:43,800
We're not talking about
advertising in these programs.

592
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,840
We're talking again
about generic promotion.

593
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,738
How do we lift up demand that's
gonna benefit the entirety

594
00:27:48,738 --> 00:27:51,150
of the participants in the sector?

595
00:27:51,150 --> 00:27:55,320
Not a particular company,
not a particular label.

596
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:56,407
Yeah, "Got milk," Darren.

597
00:27:56,407 --> 00:27:57,450
"Got milk's" an example,

598
00:27:57,450 --> 00:27:59,670
and I'm gonna give you
a couple more industries

599
00:27:59,670 --> 00:28:02,474
in a second here of agricultural sectors

600
00:28:02,474 --> 00:28:04,647
that have moved forward.

601
00:28:04,647 --> 00:28:08,490
So our group got together,
we had this rationale, right?

602
00:28:08,490 --> 00:28:09,420
We've been having these meetings

603
00:28:09,420 --> 00:28:10,320
and then we're talking about,

604
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,400
well, what do we see out there?

605
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,760
So what are the other sectors
doing in the United States?

606
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,650
I got three buckets here.

607
00:28:16,650 --> 00:28:20,762
We've got a group of crops
that we've investigated

608
00:28:20,762 --> 00:28:25,140
that are working within
the USDA market orders

609
00:28:25,140 --> 00:28:28,230
or research and promotion
program framework, on the left.

610
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:30,270
In the middle we've got some cooperatives,

611
00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:33,570
and on the right we've
got this one unique model.

612
00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:34,860
So I'm just gonna mention these

613
00:28:34,860 --> 00:28:36,450
and when we get to discussion,

614
00:28:36,450 --> 00:28:38,594
we maybe could pick at
a few of these more.

615
00:28:38,594 --> 00:28:42,270
But we did look at
honey, we looked at beef,

616
00:28:42,270 --> 00:28:43,740
we looked at pecans.

617
00:28:43,740 --> 00:28:46,710
Pecans, one of the newer
USDA market orders.

618
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:50,223
Christmas trees is another newer USDA,

619
00:28:51,324 --> 00:28:53,367
I'm pretty sure it's a market order

620
00:28:53,367 --> 00:28:55,590
and I gotta check to see if it's not,

621
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:57,086
it's a research and promotion program.

622
00:28:57,086 --> 00:28:59,747
Hazelnuts has a market order.

623
00:28:59,747 --> 00:29:04,050
In the US right now there's
at least 22 research

624
00:29:04,050 --> 00:29:05,790
and promotion programs.

625
00:29:05,790 --> 00:29:08,040
It's a certain type of program area

626
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,115
and there's 28 market orders

627
00:29:10,115 --> 00:29:13,106
and they each have some
different features.

628
00:29:13,106 --> 00:29:14,778
So we looked at these things

629
00:29:14,778 --> 00:29:16,635
and we thought, well
these are the industries

630
00:29:16,635 --> 00:29:17,657
that are doing this.

631
00:29:17,657 --> 00:29:19,500
Going to the middle, cooperatives right?

632
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:21,800
Capper-Volstead Act, whatever
that year was in the 1920s,

633
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,485
said, "Hey, you all can get together

634
00:29:24,485 --> 00:29:28,320
and you can talk about pricing
and you can talk about supply

635
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,479
as long as it doesn't cause
any undue pain on consumers."

636
00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:37,020
In the US the dairy
industry is very, you know,

637
00:29:37,020 --> 00:29:39,060
very established with cooperatives.

638
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:40,232
A couple other ones.

639
00:29:40,232 --> 00:29:43,050
Cranberry, Ocean Spray, one
of the largest cooperatives

640
00:29:43,050 --> 00:29:44,265
in the United States.

641
00:29:44,265 --> 00:29:48,923
Almonds, what's...

642
00:29:48,923 --> 00:29:51,690
I think it's Blue Diamond is one

643
00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:55,064
of the leading cooperatives,
almonds and nuts.

644
00:29:55,064 --> 00:29:57,153
There's a number of cooperatives
also that I think are,

645
00:29:57,153 --> 00:30:00,100
that I'll mention that are merged.

646
00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:04,830
A lot of like commodity crop
and services cooperatives

647
00:30:04,830 --> 00:30:06,813
that are agriculturally related,

648
00:30:07,702 --> 00:30:08,535
but they're not particularly just

649
00:30:08,535 --> 00:30:10,884
to selling the agricultural products.

650
00:30:10,884 --> 00:30:14,502
Feed seed type cooperatives
as well as equipment

651
00:30:14,502 --> 00:30:16,203
and supplies.

652
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,570
Something I wanna note on cooperatives,

653
00:30:18,570 --> 00:30:21,300
it's another way to structure
collective activity.

654
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:22,710
There are buyer's cooperatives.

655
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:24,310
There are cooperatives that form

656
00:30:25,495 --> 00:30:27,060
by basically harnessing
the buying power of a group

657
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:29,870
of people to bring in inputs.

658
00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:34,050
It could be a consumer
cooperative that buys in bulk

659
00:30:34,050 --> 00:30:37,952
and then the buyers can
then access that discount.

660
00:30:37,952 --> 00:30:40,200
Industries also do this as well.

661
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,930
They create buyer's cooperatives
so they can get discount

662
00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:47,487
on heavily used items, let's
say like fuel and utilities.

663
00:30:47,487 --> 00:30:50,970
The opposite would be a seller
cooperative where groups

664
00:30:50,970 --> 00:30:53,087
of people are putting in product

665
00:30:53,087 --> 00:30:56,220
and becoming co-owners
of this business entity,

666
00:30:56,220 --> 00:31:01,006
and then collectively branding,
marketing, distributing,

667
00:31:01,006 --> 00:31:04,350
inventorying product that
moves out theoretically

668
00:31:04,350 --> 00:31:06,090
under probably a unified brand.

669
00:31:06,090 --> 00:31:10,320
So there's just two dimensions
there to cooperatives.

670
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,790
I think primarily we're sort of shifting

671
00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:13,750
towards this concept of seller cooperative

672
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:15,180
with market development.

673
00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:18,090
But I don't want maple producers
to miss out this detail

674
00:31:18,090 --> 00:31:21,510
of a buyer cooperative could
potentially be a great source

675
00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:26,040
to procure inputs or services
in a reduced fashion.

676
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,560
And I know that some of the
producer associations function

677
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,540
in a way, like maybe you get discounts

678
00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:32,285
on insurance through your
producer association,

679
00:31:32,285 --> 00:31:34,410
not necessarily cooperative,

680
00:31:34,410 --> 00:31:38,980
but the same idea of
leveraging your group.

681
00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:41,158
Over on the right there
was this one unique model,

682
00:31:41,158 --> 00:31:42,981
this seafood quality program

683
00:31:42,981 --> 00:31:47,981
through the National Oceanic
Atmospheric Administration,

684
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,278
if I've got that right,
NOAA, a very different look,

685
00:31:51,278 --> 00:31:56,278
but this is an example of a industry

686
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:59,812
that's working with a federal agency

687
00:31:59,812 --> 00:32:03,733
and they're facilitating markets and trade

688
00:32:03,733 --> 00:32:08,733
by supporting quality
standards and all the details

689
00:32:08,999 --> 00:32:12,661
that allow seafood
producers to label and trade

690
00:32:12,661 --> 00:32:15,300
and possibly export their product

691
00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:16,860
and it's a fee-based program.

692
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:18,450
So in some sort of collaboration

693
00:32:18,450 --> 00:32:20,160
with the US government, they found a way

694
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,880
to establish a service of
value and a fee structure

695
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,875
so that people could subscribe as members

696
00:32:26,875 --> 00:32:28,740
and then receive these services

697
00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:33,300
to help them actually enhance
their marketing capacity.

698
00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:35,700
Okay, so these are the
ones we looked at here,

699
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:38,755
and now I'm gonna flip, I
think to some of the features

700
00:32:38,755 --> 00:32:40,440
of the USDA programs.

701
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,490
Oh, important to mention here,
yes, there's a huge amount

702
00:32:44,490 --> 00:32:46,470
of cooperatives, dairy,
almonds and all that.

703
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:49,590
A lot of those cooperatives
nationally still flow

704
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:53,430
into USDA agricultural
marketing service market orders

705
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:55,200
or research promotion programs.

706
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,500
So they're not explicit and
you just have a cooperative

707
00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:59,333
and that's it.

708
00:32:59,333 --> 00:33:01,289
Cooperative is definitely
a private entity,

709
00:33:01,289 --> 00:33:05,210
a private mechanism to
collectively mobilize a group

710
00:33:05,210 --> 00:33:06,210
of people.

711
00:33:06,210 --> 00:33:09,122
But in this case, a lot of
these sectors still flow

712
00:33:09,122 --> 00:33:12,030
into these federal programs.

713
00:33:12,030 --> 00:33:13,770
Okay, so I mentioned the
private cooperatives.

714
00:33:13,770 --> 00:33:16,080
I think our group has been very mindful

715
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,640
that we may have some
suspicion or some disinterest

716
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,710
in working, quote, "with
a government program."

717
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:25,110
So we did wanna look at
the private cooperatives

718
00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:26,259
as an option.

719
00:33:26,259 --> 00:33:30,570
Voluntary programs, historically
there have been a lot

720
00:33:30,570 --> 00:33:31,980
more voluntary programs.

721
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:35,400
What we've learned from
talking to agencies regional

722
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,030
and federal, is that a number
of the voluntary programs

723
00:33:39,030 --> 00:33:41,340
have actually either dismantled

724
00:33:41,340 --> 00:33:44,257
or they've converted
into mandatory programs

725
00:33:44,257 --> 00:33:46,410
at the federal level.

726
00:33:46,410 --> 00:33:47,987
Generally because of the free-rider issue,

727
00:33:47,987 --> 00:33:51,430
there were checkoff programs regionally

728
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,210
that potentially were
successful at one point in time,

729
00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:57,000
but they've just had so much trouble being

730
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,420
that they're voluntary and
had so many participants in

731
00:34:00,420 --> 00:34:04,140
that sector not actually opt
in and not make contributions,

732
00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:06,450
that the programs failed more or less.

733
00:34:06,450 --> 00:34:08,910
So they said it's very
rare to see a successful

734
00:34:08,910 --> 00:34:12,396
and viable voluntary collective program.

735
00:34:12,396 --> 00:34:15,387
Which leads us to this third bullet there,

736
00:34:15,387 --> 00:34:18,210
the USDA, Ag Marketing Service,

737
00:34:18,210 --> 00:34:19,620
the Governed Agreements and Orders.

738
00:34:19,620 --> 00:34:22,543
So I'm gonna dig into
those a little bit more

739
00:34:22,543 --> 00:34:23,376
and talk about the features.

740
00:34:23,376 --> 00:34:24,600
On the right here. great picture.

741
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,100
Some of us were at the IMSI annual meeting

742
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:32,973
in Essex Junction, Vermont this June,

743
00:34:34,231 --> 00:34:35,064
and one of the representatives

744
00:34:35,064 --> 00:34:38,940
from the PPAQ and Quebec
showed us some examples

745
00:34:38,940 --> 00:34:40,815
of some of their generic promotions.

746
00:34:40,815 --> 00:34:43,792
If I understand this, I think
these are maybe sample boxes

747
00:34:43,792 --> 00:34:45,626
that are possibly going overseas

748
00:34:45,626 --> 00:34:48,210
and maybe going to key people like chefs

749
00:34:48,210 --> 00:34:49,420
or cooking schools.

750
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:52,050
This is a great example of
generic promotion, right?

751
00:34:52,050 --> 00:34:54,540
This is not a branded
product, this is not a sale,

752
00:34:54,540 --> 00:34:56,840
this is not leading anyone
to a particular company.

753
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,349
This is promoting pure
maple syrup from Canada

754
00:35:00,349 --> 00:35:02,647
and they've got some features there.

755
00:35:02,647 --> 00:35:04,559
"One ingredient, one delicious flavor."

756
00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:07,046
And they're moving the
awareness forward in that way

757
00:35:07,046 --> 00:35:09,570
with the assumption that enough activity

758
00:35:09,570 --> 00:35:14,040
could then draw people to make
their purchasing transaction.

759
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:19,040
So a nice example of some of
more recent PPAQ campaigns,

760
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:20,550
I think that's active.

761
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:23,590
So I wanna dig into this idea
of market orders and research

762
00:35:24,487 --> 00:35:26,575
and promotion programs
help people become aware

763
00:35:26,575 --> 00:35:28,350
of what they look like and
how they're structured.

764
00:35:28,350 --> 00:35:31,920
So participation, they're
mandatory programs, right?

765
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,020
The idea is these are
not voluntary programs

766
00:35:34,020 --> 00:35:35,820
with people deciding
if they're in and out.

767
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:38,040
These are programs that
when they're established,

768
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,390
they're mandatory for those

769
00:35:39,390 --> 00:35:41,215
that will say are, quote, "covered"

770
00:35:41,215 --> 00:35:42,810
and there are exemptions.

771
00:35:42,810 --> 00:35:45,655
So the build out of any program
would specifically identify

772
00:35:45,655 --> 00:35:49,770
who would be exempt, and I'll
talk about that in a second.

773
00:35:49,770 --> 00:35:53,988
But mandatory, binding programs,
once they're established,

774
00:35:53,988 --> 00:35:55,570
if they're established.

775
00:35:55,570 --> 00:35:59,261
They have a specified geographic coverage.

776
00:35:59,261 --> 00:36:01,470
It can be broad, being national,

777
00:36:01,470 --> 00:36:04,542
or it could be specific like
the hazelnut market order

778
00:36:04,542 --> 00:36:07,590
is all of Oregon and I think a couple

779
00:36:07,590 --> 00:36:09,871
of counties are regions
in the state of Washington

780
00:36:09,871 --> 00:36:14,580
that embody the bulk of
the US hazelnut production,

781
00:36:14,580 --> 00:36:15,690
that's under market order.

782
00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:17,948
But they draw the line and
they can cross state lines

783
00:36:17,948 --> 00:36:21,333
and they can cut states
in half if they need to.

784
00:36:21,333 --> 00:36:25,779
Other main feature that an
assessment is collected.

785
00:36:25,779 --> 00:36:27,960
I think from our experience looking

786
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,730
at these different
industries, you're looking

787
00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:34,234
at roughly 1 to 3% of
the value of the product

788
00:36:34,234 --> 00:36:36,330
at the wholesale level

789
00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:38,971
or whatever their initial transaction is.

790
00:36:38,971 --> 00:36:43,971
So an example of the PPAQ, the
portion of their assessments

791
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,884
that are specifically for
marketing and promotion,

792
00:36:47,884 --> 00:36:50,850
I think, we're thinking six and a half

793
00:36:50,850 --> 00:36:54,480
or maybe 7 cents on a
pound of syrup, Canadian,

794
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,723
is what the assessment
is in Quebec right now.

795
00:36:57,723 --> 00:36:59,885
They have a number of
other assessments as well

796
00:36:59,885 --> 00:37:02,160
and we looked at that
for honey and potatoes,

797
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,897
Christmas trees and things like that

798
00:37:03,897 --> 00:37:06,780
and you know, 1 to 5 percentage
and definitely closer,

799
00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:09,450
probably 1 to 3% of the value

800
00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:10,956
of the product could be the assessment.

801
00:37:10,956 --> 00:37:13,080
An example would be
Christmas trees, you know,

802
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,350
could be $15 a tree, the
beef checked for a while

803
00:37:16,350 --> 00:37:18,423
I think it was a certain dollar per head.

804
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:21,630
Okay, what's the activity of the program?

805
00:37:21,630 --> 00:37:23,790
Ideally generic promotion,
like we've discussed,

806
00:37:23,790 --> 00:37:26,242
research and development,
definitely people looking

807
00:37:26,242 --> 00:37:30,180
at different varieties,
genomics, especially say

808
00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:32,040
in the apple or in hazelnuts.

809
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,790
They're looking at resistance,
in stock protection,

810
00:37:35,790 --> 00:37:37,110
things like that.

811
00:37:37,110 --> 00:37:39,469
Quality regulations in
standards, as we mentioned.

812
00:37:39,469 --> 00:37:42,930
Those can be encompassed
into a governing framework

813
00:37:42,930 --> 00:37:45,270
to establish uniform standards.

814
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:47,343
Maple certainly has those standards now.

815
00:37:47,343 --> 00:37:50,460
Not every industry had them historically.

816
00:37:50,460 --> 00:37:52,531
Quantity regulation is an option,

817
00:37:52,531 --> 00:37:54,180
particularly in the market orders.

818
00:37:54,180 --> 00:37:57,530
The market orders do allow for measurement

819
00:37:59,897 --> 00:38:04,301
and a determination of
how much supply, how much,

820
00:38:04,301 --> 00:38:07,890
and when and in what form,
especially for different grades.

821
00:38:07,890 --> 00:38:12,780
Import regulations also an
option in these programs.

822
00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:14,820
There is the potential
to consider what happens

823
00:38:14,820 --> 00:38:17,103
for product moving into the US marketplace

824
00:38:17,103 --> 00:38:18,888
from other countries.

825
00:38:18,888 --> 00:38:21,891
It could be assessed and there
could be different parameters

826
00:38:21,891 --> 00:38:24,211
and the regulations of how to handle

827
00:38:24,211 --> 00:38:25,803
that product coming in.

828
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,584
Governance, this is,
I think, worth noting.

829
00:38:30,584 --> 00:38:32,043
A lot of people have said,

830
00:38:32,043 --> 00:38:35,340
"We wanna investigate self funding

831
00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:36,600
within the maple industry.

832
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,520
We don't want a government program."

833
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,260
These orders are under a
government rule in the sense

834
00:38:43,260 --> 00:38:45,390
that the government framework is there

835
00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:47,040
and the legality is there.

836
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,630
It's made available through

837
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:50,272
those acts I talked about earlier.

838
00:38:50,272 --> 00:38:52,131
To say you can work together as a group

839
00:38:52,131 --> 00:38:53,729
and there's a structure and process.

840
00:38:53,729 --> 00:38:57,630
The boards, however, are based
on the covered members again.

841
00:38:57,630 --> 00:39:00,420
So these are not necessarily
government decisions.

842
00:39:00,420 --> 00:39:01,590
And what we've learned from talking

843
00:39:01,590 --> 00:39:05,670
to ag marketing service people
is the boards are often based

844
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:07,455
on membership and voting representation

845
00:39:07,455 --> 00:39:10,620
very often reflects the
member contribution.

846
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:14,322
So the beef promotional
council, for example,

847
00:39:14,322 --> 00:39:16,436
different voting based on the states

848
00:39:16,436 --> 00:39:19,151
and the quantity of
beef that they produce,

849
00:39:19,151 --> 00:39:22,710
either historically or
on running averages.

850
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:24,450
Different votes get dealt out based

851
00:39:24,450 --> 00:39:27,089
on how much product they're
putting into the order

852
00:39:27,089 --> 00:39:29,940
and you know, through product,
meaning how much money

853
00:39:29,940 --> 00:39:31,587
are they putting into the order.

854
00:39:31,587 --> 00:39:33,948
There definitely is USDA
review on the activity

855
00:39:33,948 --> 00:39:36,660
of the promotion boards to make sure

856
00:39:36,660 --> 00:39:40,770
that the communications,
promotional campaigns, language,

857
00:39:40,770 --> 00:39:43,470
all of that has to be
legal within the statutes

858
00:39:43,470 --> 00:39:45,240
that enable these things
to actually happen.

859
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,412
So there is a USDA review process,

860
00:39:47,412 --> 00:39:51,900
but the government governance
is very much appointed

861
00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:54,540
or volunteer, I'm sorry,

862
00:39:54,540 --> 00:39:56,220
I actually don't know
if they're paid or not.

863
00:39:56,220 --> 00:39:59,940
I wanna say representatives
within the industry.

864
00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:02,700
So the producers, packers,
distributors are very much

865
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:04,950
at the table if they're
covered by the order.

866
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:07,830
Another feature here is exemptions.

867
00:40:07,830 --> 00:40:10,860
In all the market orders and
promotion programs we looked

868
00:40:10,860 --> 00:40:13,950
at, they all have a different rationale

869
00:40:13,950 --> 00:40:16,648
for creating exemptions
from people that participate

870
00:40:16,648 --> 00:40:18,630
in their sector.

871
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:21,256
But it's been decided that
that's not the type of producer

872
00:40:21,256 --> 00:40:26,256
or the amount of product that
we wanna include and assess.

873
00:40:26,340 --> 00:40:28,722
So this is gonna vary
by sector and program.

874
00:40:28,722 --> 00:40:31,680
Very often it's by scale of producer,

875
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,630
either the volume of the producer,

876
00:40:33,630 --> 00:40:36,240
how many thousands of
pounds they sell in a year,

877
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,550
or there could be a
sales cap that we've seen

878
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:39,960
in some of these examples.

879
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,020
Let's say a business that's
got less than $20,000

880
00:40:43,020 --> 00:40:46,350
in sales could be just explicitly exempt.

881
00:40:46,350 --> 00:40:47,896
Market channel of sales is also something

882
00:40:47,896 --> 00:40:50,820
that could be an exemption.

883
00:40:50,820 --> 00:40:53,543
With hazelnuts, the assessments all happen

884
00:40:53,543 --> 00:40:55,500
at the shelling facilities,

885
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:57,420
as I understand if I've got that right?

886
00:40:57,420 --> 00:41:00,111
So if you're actually
selling hazelnuts online

887
00:41:00,111 --> 00:41:01,767
or you're doing any direct sale,

888
00:41:01,767 --> 00:41:05,940
you're gonna be potentially exempt.

889
00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:08,610
But if you're moving your
nuts through a facility

890
00:41:08,610 --> 00:41:10,140
for shelling and then
they're moving through

891
00:41:10,140 --> 00:41:12,930
to a distributor co-op, there
may be an assessment there.

892
00:41:12,930 --> 00:41:15,060
So the direction of the product

893
00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:18,182
could create a mechanism for exemption.

894
00:41:18,182 --> 00:41:20,880
And then as I mentioned
with these programs,

895
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,052
there certainly is the decision

896
00:41:22,052 --> 00:41:25,920
to cover domestic product only,

897
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,100
or in some cases to
explore the imports coming

898
00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:31,950
into the US marketplace,
whether they would be assessed

899
00:41:31,950 --> 00:41:34,170
or whether they would
be subject to quantity

900
00:41:34,170 --> 00:41:37,650
and volume amounts coming in
and out of the marketplace.

901
00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:41,588
A lot of tools here and it's
really up to the governing law

902
00:41:41,588 --> 00:41:44,520
that gets established of what that program

903
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:45,750
would look like for maple.

904
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:50,750
Just as it has for pecans and
Christmas trees and honey.

905
00:41:53,070 --> 00:41:54,450
Moving backwards here just a little bit

906
00:41:54,450 --> 00:41:55,730
on establishment here.

907
00:41:55,730 --> 00:41:58,196
If the maple industry were to
look at something like this,

908
00:41:58,196 --> 00:42:00,720
there's a process of
creating an industry program,

909
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,546
feasibility plan, combination
of market research,

910
00:42:03,546 --> 00:42:06,137
confirmation that the participants

911
00:42:06,137 --> 00:42:11,137
in the industry think it's
a worthwhile endeavor.

912
00:42:11,156 --> 00:42:12,960
It can't just come from nowhere.

913
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,150
And the USDA does its due
diligence to make sure

914
00:42:15,150 --> 00:42:19,366
that it has a reasonable potential
to be viable financially.

915
00:42:19,366 --> 00:42:23,370
The way it's designed and
that people are behind it.

916
00:42:23,370 --> 00:42:27,284
There's a hearing process,
review process, comment period,

917
00:42:27,284 --> 00:42:31,576
that could take, you
know, months if not years.

918
00:42:31,576 --> 00:42:33,932
And then eventually
there's a referendum vote

919
00:42:33,932 --> 00:42:36,660
that would go to the people
that would, only the people

920
00:42:36,660 --> 00:42:38,760
that would be covered
under the proposed order

921
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,350
would actually be voting on it.

922
00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:43,683
So this comes back in, I think,
to the exemption clauses.

923
00:42:44,940 --> 00:42:46,650
So that is, there is quite a process

924
00:42:46,650 --> 00:42:48,273
to work through these as well.

925
00:42:49,170 --> 00:42:50,280
This is a very different process

926
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,230
than say, creating a
private cooperative entity

927
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:55,110
and working within a
group of group of people

928
00:42:55,110 --> 00:42:57,513
and creating a framework that way.

929
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:00,692
So I'm gonna close off
here before I open up

930
00:43:00,692 --> 00:43:04,709
for conversation and
just mention one thing.

931
00:43:04,709 --> 00:43:07,189
As we've investigated these USDA programs,

932
00:43:07,189 --> 00:43:09,480
this very important dilemma comes up,

933
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,313
the organic maple syrup dilemma.

934
00:43:11,313 --> 00:43:13,440
I've gotta check the information

935
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,990
to figure out if I know the status,

936
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:20,310
but at one point there was a
pending organic market order,

937
00:43:20,310 --> 00:43:22,494
a general market order
for organic products

938
00:43:22,494 --> 00:43:27,494
across milk, vegetables, maple,

939
00:43:29,097 --> 00:43:32,786
and because there was a
pending organic market order,

940
00:43:32,786 --> 00:43:36,870
organic producers still
do legally have the option

941
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:40,852
to self exempt from any
AMS market agreements

942
00:43:40,852 --> 00:43:42,570
or market orders.

943
00:43:42,570 --> 00:43:44,760
Now, in other industries, this
maybe is not such an issue

944
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,700
because organic production
is a smaller fraction,

945
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:50,819
let's say less than
20% of domestic supply.

946
00:43:50,819 --> 00:43:53,880
But at this point right now,
US syrup we're estimating

947
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,880
is gonna be 50, 60 maybe
plus 60% certified organic

948
00:43:59,246 --> 00:44:01,803
within our US domestic supply.

949
00:44:01,803 --> 00:44:06,803
It would certainly be viable
if every organic producer were

950
00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:09,953
to say, "Oh, I'm in on
a program like this.

951
00:44:09,953 --> 00:44:14,160
I will just, I will
voluntarily contribute."

952
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,080
But it's important to know that right now,

953
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,279
as the law is there is
this organic maple issue

954
00:44:19,279 --> 00:44:22,203
where producers could opt out.

955
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,920
I think what's happening is
if this other market order

956
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,800
does succeed, producers
can't be double assessed.

957
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,690
You can't be assessed by
the organic market order

958
00:44:30,690 --> 00:44:32,250
and then have a maple producer,

959
00:44:32,250 --> 00:44:35,280
then be assessed through
the maple market order.

960
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,560
And I think the producers,
again, would kind

961
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,590
of have the option which
one they might put into.

962
00:44:40,590 --> 00:44:42,549
This is a big sticking point right now.

963
00:44:42,549 --> 00:44:44,760
We haven't gotten into the next level

964
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,830
of what could change legally,

965
00:44:46,830 --> 00:44:49,293
but we know that it is a dilemma.

966
00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:55,920
So I'm just gonna go to the chat box here

967
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:56,940
and see if I've got anything.

968
00:44:56,940 --> 00:44:58,503
And that may be it for slides.

969
00:45:01,950 --> 00:45:03,780
Question from Matt, "Are you saying

970
00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:05,724
that the International Maple
Syrup Producers Association

971
00:45:05,724 --> 00:45:07,200
is looking to this?"

972
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,830
Yeah, so right now there's
an active committee looking

973
00:45:10,830 --> 00:45:14,340
at sustainable funding
and really our task was

974
00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:16,530
to investigate all the
different frameworks.

975
00:45:16,530 --> 00:45:18,420
When we first started we had four people

976
00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:21,660
that said. "We only wanna see
a voluntary framework happen."

977
00:45:21,660 --> 00:45:22,867
And then a few other people said,

978
00:45:22,867 --> 00:45:24,804
"Well we've looked at a
voluntary framework and we don't

979
00:45:24,804 --> 00:45:26,130
think that's gonna work."

980
00:45:26,130 --> 00:45:28,140
So we've actually been as a group kind

981
00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:29,670
of going through the process of looking

982
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:31,942
at different industries,
having conversations

983
00:45:31,942 --> 00:45:33,837
about the frameworks.

984
00:45:33,837 --> 00:45:37,680
So yeah, so we're looking at this concept

985
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,645
of what could happen
collectively within the US

986
00:45:40,645 --> 00:45:44,220
in addition to the good
stuff that's happening now.

987
00:45:44,220 --> 00:45:46,261
And we're looking at all
these different options,

988
00:45:46,261 --> 00:45:50,130
having conversations like
tonight to share a little bit

989
00:45:50,130 --> 00:45:53,613
of what we learned and
also get people's feedback.

990
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,800
Reading back here, Arnie
says, 3, 3.5% percent

991
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,000
of US milk is organic.

992
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,980
Great, that's a little
different than 60%, right?

993
00:46:01,980 --> 00:46:03,502
So if the organic producers opt out,

994
00:46:03,502 --> 00:46:05,999
not a big deal for the
"Got Milk" campaign.

995
00:46:05,999 --> 00:46:09,843
I'm gonna scan through,
let me see what I got.

996
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:13,710
Oh yeah, ongoing research, just to say

997
00:46:13,710 --> 00:46:16,151
that we're doing some
research on this now.

998
00:46:16,151 --> 00:46:19,499
I'm gonna get back into
the chat window here

999
00:46:19,499 --> 00:46:22,055
and if anyone wants to unmute, feel free

1000
00:46:22,055 --> 00:46:24,120
and we'd love to hear opinions here.

1001
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,590
I think that's one thing
we wanna emphasize.

1002
00:46:25,590 --> 00:46:28,050
We've heard a lot of opinions
in our committee here.

1003
00:46:28,050 --> 00:46:30,532
We've kept it very friendly
and it's been fantastic

1004
00:46:30,532 --> 00:46:35,016
because this concept of collective effort,

1005
00:46:35,016 --> 00:46:38,370
I won't say what it pushes
on you, you may know,

1006
00:46:38,370 --> 00:46:43,205
but it pushes on some things
that people take seriously.

1007
00:46:43,205 --> 00:46:46,920
So let me see, Nick says,
"Difference between a market order

1008
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,135
and an RMP program?"

1009
00:46:48,135 --> 00:46:49,963
The way it's been explained to me,

1010
00:46:49,963 --> 00:46:51,525
market orders are pretty complicated.

1011
00:46:51,525 --> 00:46:54,477
The research and promotion programs

1012
00:46:54,477 --> 00:46:56,850
are a lot cleaner, limited tools

1013
00:46:56,850 --> 00:46:59,587
in a research and promotion program

1014
00:46:59,587 --> 00:47:03,349
but as our committee I'd say would assume

1015
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:05,835
that the research and promotion program

1016
00:47:05,835 --> 00:47:08,520
seems a lot more fitting
for maple in the sense

1017
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,113
that it offers a mechanism to
create an assessment structure

1018
00:47:12,113 --> 00:47:17,113
and focus it on research
and promotional activity

1019
00:47:17,444 --> 00:47:20,918
to develop the market.

1020
00:47:20,918 --> 00:47:24,283
The market orders have
lots of other features

1021
00:47:24,283 --> 00:47:26,728
like establishment of standards,

1022
00:47:26,728 --> 00:47:28,320
already been done for maple.

1023
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:29,190
We don't need a program

1024
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:31,775
that does new standards establishment,

1025
00:47:31,775 --> 00:47:35,755
but a market order could
include establishment issues.

1026
00:47:35,755 --> 00:47:37,890
The market order I believe also does

1027
00:47:37,890 --> 00:47:40,602
have production
curtailment, call it quota,

1028
00:47:40,602 --> 00:47:43,620
call it supply management
mechanisms in it.

1029
00:47:43,620 --> 00:47:45,390
That's something that's different

1030
00:47:45,390 --> 00:47:48,240
than what the RMP programs allow.

1031
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,983
So market orders, much more complicated,

1032
00:47:50,983 --> 00:47:53,386
many more tools there.

1033
00:47:53,386 --> 00:47:56,349
The research and promotion
one is much more of,

1034
00:47:56,349 --> 00:47:59,370
let's collect money, let's
advance primary research,

1035
00:47:59,370 --> 00:48:01,950
market research and generic promotion.

1036
00:48:01,950 --> 00:48:03,660
But let's see, "Stu, are you estimating

1037
00:48:03,660 --> 00:48:07,080
that 50 to 60% of US maple
production is organic?

1038
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,877
Seems really high."

1039
00:48:08,877 --> 00:48:11,094
Well what do you all think?

1040
00:48:11,094 --> 00:48:15,450
We, I don't have the NAS
stats in front of me there.

1041
00:48:15,450 --> 00:48:19,070
There's been some periodic
organic production calculations.

1042
00:48:19,070 --> 00:48:20,993
Also been some issues with NAS.

1043
00:48:20,993 --> 00:48:24,054
We did a survey in 2019
across the northeast

1044
00:48:24,054 --> 00:48:29,054
and we hit I think 61%
of the crop in the survey

1045
00:48:30,225 --> 00:48:32,565
was certified organic.

1046
00:48:32,565 --> 00:48:34,980
And all I can say is I've mentioned this,

1047
00:48:34,980 --> 00:48:38,400
in the eyes of a couple
major packers in the US

1048
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,040
and I've gotten them to
nod in group environments

1049
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,730
and then said, "Yeah, that
that's not too far off."

1050
00:48:44,730 --> 00:48:48,120
What we do know about
this is this 50 or 60%

1051
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,884
of the US crop, if it's organic,

1052
00:48:49,884 --> 00:48:52,569
it's not coming from the
majority of the producers.

1053
00:48:52,569 --> 00:48:57,569
This could be coming from 10
to 15% of the maple producers

1054
00:48:58,113 --> 00:48:59,580
as we know it.

1055
00:48:59,580 --> 00:49:01,477
And that 10 or 15% of those producers,

1056
00:49:01,477 --> 00:49:04,080
very likely the producers

1057
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,520
that are exclusively 20, 40,
50, 100,000 tap operations.

1058
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,630
So the volume of the
crop is not reflective

1059
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:17,630
of the number of producers
because of the scale.

1060
00:49:18,090 --> 00:49:19,800
The larger, a lot of
the larger enterprises

1061
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,346
have gone organic.

1062
00:49:21,346 --> 00:49:24,960
But speak up if anyone has contention

1063
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,610
'cause we don't have a lot
of information on this.

1064
00:49:26,610 --> 00:49:28,560
We're really early on in research

1065
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,210
in these dynamics for maple.

1066
00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:31,500
-Could possibly
-[Darren] Hello?

1067
00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:32,790
Yeah, go ahead Darren.

1068
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:34,308
[Darren] Yeah this is Darren

1069
00:49:34,308 --> 00:49:36,420
and it seems like a
lot of the, pretty much

1070
00:49:36,420 --> 00:49:39,960
every new sugar bush that's
coming in, in Wisconsin,

1071
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,360
at least in my area, is going organic

1072
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,929
because the state is subsidizing
the certification process

1073
00:49:44,929 --> 00:49:49,048
and it's, they're getting
a premium on their syrup.

1074
00:49:49,048 --> 00:49:52,937
Okay, okay, there's an incentive.

1075
00:49:52,937 --> 00:49:57,150
Matt question, "And this could
possibly become mandatory?"

1076
00:49:57,150 --> 00:49:59,850
So Matt, you know, the
couple different things

1077
00:49:59,850 --> 00:50:01,290
on the table just this evening,

1078
00:50:01,290 --> 00:50:05,310
we certainly have got the USDA programs

1079
00:50:05,310 --> 00:50:06,540
as they're established.

1080
00:50:06,540 --> 00:50:08,471
Those are are binding mandatory programs,

1081
00:50:08,471 --> 00:50:10,890
given the exemptions that I discussed,

1082
00:50:10,890 --> 00:50:14,145
and every active program has
a long list of exemptions

1083
00:50:14,145 --> 00:50:16,537
where participants don't contribute

1084
00:50:16,537 --> 00:50:20,070
because they're not
deemed to be the target

1085
00:50:20,070 --> 00:50:21,318
for the market development.

1086
00:50:21,318 --> 00:50:24,180
But cooperatives, let's say, you know,

1087
00:50:24,180 --> 00:50:25,860
these private mechanisms do exist

1088
00:50:25,860 --> 00:50:27,090
and those aren't mandatory at all.

1089
00:50:27,090 --> 00:50:29,970
Those are independently
governed corporations,

1090
00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:31,920
a group of member owners.

1091
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,080
So we're trying to kind of keep that open

1092
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,300
and understand we've got private

1093
00:50:36,300 --> 00:50:39,033
and then we've got these
USDA mandatory programs.

1094
00:50:40,350 --> 00:50:41,476
Great question.

1095
00:50:41,476 --> 00:50:44,400
You know, I think that
pushes at the heart of it.

1096
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:45,540
I'm doing interviews right now

1097
00:50:45,540 --> 00:50:47,270
and I've heard a lot of people say,

1098
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:48,999
"Yeah, I'd contribute just
'cause I wanna contribute

1099
00:50:48,999 --> 00:50:50,044
to the group."

1100
00:50:50,044 --> 00:50:50,877
And I've heard other people say,

1101
00:50:50,877 --> 00:50:51,720
"No, I'm doing this on my own.

1102
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:52,920
I don't wanna be a part of it."

1103
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,952
So we're not naive to the
fact that that starts to,

1104
00:50:56,952 --> 00:50:59,527
it changes people's
worldview a little bit,

1105
00:50:59,527 --> 00:51:02,285
especially if you talk
to people in Canada.

1106
00:51:02,285 --> 00:51:04,103
Folks in Canada definitely

1107
00:51:04,103 --> 00:51:06,300
have a different perception,
different culture

1108
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:09,723
when it comes to collective
agricultural units.

1109
00:51:11,424 --> 00:51:15,000
Hear the chat, speak up and
just as the ongoing research,

1110
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,680
so as part of this IMSI committee,

1111
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,250
we're investigating the
market dynamics in general,

1112
00:51:20,250 --> 00:51:21,420
and some of you may hear from me,

1113
00:51:21,420 --> 00:51:23,021
we are gonna be putting out an invitation.

1114
00:51:23,021 --> 00:51:25,802
I've started to do private
interviews with people basically

1115
00:51:25,802 --> 00:51:28,500
to get that feedback of,

1116
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:30,863
what does this concept sound like to you?

1117
00:51:30,863 --> 00:51:33,726
What are the features
of collective promotion

1118
00:51:33,726 --> 00:51:37,218
that you think are important
for the future of US maple?

1119
00:51:37,218 --> 00:51:41,163
What are the features that
you're not so keen on?

1120
00:51:42,221 --> 00:51:45,330
Yeah, and yeah, dairy I love it.

1121
00:51:45,330 --> 00:51:46,530
Yeah, go ahead, whoever's speaking

1122
00:51:46,530 --> 00:51:48,242
and then we'll get to
the comment about dairy.

1123
00:51:48,242 --> 00:51:50,342
[Darren] Yeah, well it, that's part

1124
00:51:50,342 --> 00:51:51,908
of what I was gonna say,
this is Darren again.

1125
00:51:51,908 --> 00:51:55,920
So yeah, there's, you
know, dairy is, you know,

1126
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,388
the cooperatives in
dairy have a lot of power

1127
00:51:58,388 --> 00:52:00,900
to the point where they, you know,

1128
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:02,419
they're vertically integrating now

1129
00:52:02,419 --> 00:52:04,980
and you know, there's a big concern,

1130
00:52:04,980 --> 00:52:07,080
you know, when they're
starting to get into,

1131
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,990
you know, their own brands and such.

1132
00:52:09,990 --> 00:52:12,330
You know, same thing with
cranberry, with Ocean Spray

1133
00:52:12,330 --> 00:52:15,540
and so forth and you know,
how, you know, is there concern

1134
00:52:15,540 --> 00:52:19,824
about any kind of, you know,
creep in some of these programs

1135
00:52:19,824 --> 00:52:24,824
or moving from just a
marketing, you know, plan

1136
00:52:25,131 --> 00:52:28,860
to something that's much more in depth

1137
00:52:28,860 --> 00:52:32,070
and embedded in the whole
industry and vertically.

1138
00:52:32,070 --> 00:52:33,300
Right, right, good question.

1139
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:36,166
One thing I'll say from my investigation,

1140
00:52:36,166 --> 00:52:39,405
well let's look at the Quebec example.

1141
00:52:39,405 --> 00:52:42,154
Speak up, if anyone on
the line is from Quebec,

1142
00:52:42,154 --> 00:52:45,905
you know, Quebec's maple market
management program is not

1143
00:52:45,905 --> 00:52:48,360
where it was 40 years ago.

1144
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,720
That program has evolved and
then they have added features

1145
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:53,640
and different dynamics to that program.

1146
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,963
So these programs definitely
are likely to evolve.

1147
00:52:57,963 --> 00:53:02,850
With reference to USDA research
and promotion programs,

1148
00:53:02,850 --> 00:53:04,168
one of the things we're
researching right now

1149
00:53:04,168 --> 00:53:06,270
is a number, well not a number,

1150
00:53:06,270 --> 00:53:09,765
but there are promotional
programs that have been,

1151
00:53:09,765 --> 00:53:12,120
I dunno what the term
is, terminated, right?

1152
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:13,303
So you've got an active board

1153
00:53:13,303 --> 00:53:17,628
that's implementing a
program based on the design

1154
00:53:17,628 --> 00:53:19,587
that they saw fit for their industry.

1155
00:53:19,587 --> 00:53:23,970
And they are subject to, I
don't know if they're subject

1156
00:53:23,970 --> 00:53:26,790
to regular renewal or if there's an option

1157
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:30,150
to sort of call question to
the validity of the program,

1158
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:32,970
and there are examples of
programs that were established

1159
00:53:32,970 --> 00:53:33,960
and have been voted out.

1160
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,620
So I just want to mention
that there is a mechanism

1161
00:53:37,620 --> 00:53:41,073
for programs to be terminated
and that does happen.

1162
00:53:42,438 --> 00:53:44,490
This idea of vertical integration.

1163
00:53:44,490 --> 00:53:48,510
I, yeah, I don't want
to get too into that,

1164
00:53:48,510 --> 00:53:49,932
'cause I do know like the dairy example,

1165
00:53:49,932 --> 00:53:53,050
those are cooperatives that
are functioning separately

1166
00:53:53,050 --> 00:53:54,852
that relate to the market order.

1167
00:53:54,852 --> 00:53:58,260
We definitely don't have
that cooperative momentum,

1168
00:53:58,260 --> 00:54:02,100
in US maple at all yet
so I think it is a bit

1169
00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:03,600
of a different beast,

1170
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,050
but the point on dairy is super relevant,

1171
00:54:07,050 --> 00:54:08,868
and I have talked to
people and they've said,

1172
00:54:08,868 --> 00:54:12,090
"Well, you know, this concept
actually sounds pretty good,

1173
00:54:12,090 --> 00:54:14,282
but good luck getting this
off the ground with anybody

1174
00:54:14,282 --> 00:54:15,930
that's got experience with dairy

1175
00:54:15,930 --> 00:54:19,830
because the pricing and the
dynamics of dairy industry

1176
00:54:19,830 --> 00:54:23,070
have, you know, they don't
become a huge success story

1177
00:54:23,070 --> 00:54:25,065
for something like this."

1178
00:54:25,065 --> 00:54:27,949
And I get it and the counterpoint I'll say

1179
00:54:27,949 --> 00:54:30,415
as the person with the mic right now is,

1180
00:54:30,415 --> 00:54:32,410
dairy's an extremely perishable product.

1181
00:54:32,410 --> 00:54:34,950
Fluid milk is a extremely
perishable product.

1182
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:38,640
Maple doesn't last
forever, but I would say

1183
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,300
it's a significantly
different product format.

1184
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:46,050
So I'd be looking at some
other examples of market orders

1185
00:54:46,050 --> 00:54:48,000
and research from promotion
programs like honey,

1186
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,470
for example.

1187
00:54:49,470 --> 00:54:52,080
Maybe look at olive oil and
other industries like that,

1188
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,450
that are semi shelf-stable
for a period of time

1189
00:54:55,450 --> 00:54:58,152
and look to see what kind of traction

1190
00:54:58,152 --> 00:55:00,873
those programs have had,

1191
00:55:01,890 --> 00:55:05,220
given that dairy is
such a different beast.

1192
00:55:05,220 --> 00:55:06,723
But I think point taken.

1193
00:55:07,890 --> 00:55:08,723
[Darren] Well that goes back,

1194
00:55:08,723 --> 00:55:13,415
I mean your first slide I
think where maple is a luxury,

1195
00:55:13,415 --> 00:55:17,647
whereas dairy is very
much a grocery store,

1196
00:55:17,647 --> 00:55:22,647
similar to, you know, gasoline
or any other commodity.

1197
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,890
It's very much about,
you know, priced based

1198
00:55:25,890 --> 00:55:26,790
because it's something

1199
00:55:26,790 --> 00:55:30,450
that's considered a standard
supermarket commodity

1200
00:55:30,450 --> 00:55:32,430
as opposed to luxury,

1201
00:55:32,430 --> 00:55:37,430
whereas olive oil or
cranberries or almonds.

1202
00:55:38,038 --> 00:55:41,063
Right, yeah.

1203
00:55:41,063 --> 00:55:46,063
Yeah and there's no
guarantee on this for sure,

1204
00:55:46,334 --> 00:55:48,750
but I think that's the kind of stuff

1205
00:55:48,750 --> 00:55:50,490
where I think we're trying to, you know,

1206
00:55:50,490 --> 00:55:52,590
we're looking at it, we're
having this conversation tonight

1207
00:55:52,590 --> 00:55:54,511
just to see what bugs people

1208
00:55:54,511 --> 00:55:57,240
and what's, you know,

1209
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:00,030
let's go back to that per
capita consumption figure

1210
00:56:00,030 --> 00:56:03,270
and say, is there, is there a reason

1211
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:06,240
we're at 0.16 kilograms
per person in the US

1212
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:09,030
like from a nutrition standpoint,

1213
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:10,493
maybe that's a good place to be?

1214
00:56:10,493 --> 00:56:15,493
Or is there an opportunity
for something different?

1215
00:56:17,610 --> 00:56:19,460
[Matt] So Mark, who's gonna run it?

1216
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:22,433
Run what?

1217
00:56:23,726 --> 00:56:27,519
[Matt] Well, if we're looking
at this co-op kind of thing,

1218
00:56:27,519 --> 00:56:31,140
there's somebody at the top who runs it.

1219
00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:36,140
So who's going to be, all co-ops
have a committee at the top

1220
00:56:37,676 --> 00:56:40,353
who's going to be that
committee at the top?

1221
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,860
Well if we're mentioning,
I mean a cooperative

1222
00:56:43,860 --> 00:56:46,650
is a private business
entity made a member owner,

1223
00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:49,864
so we'd be waiting to see
what maple producers decided

1224
00:56:49,864 --> 00:56:52,260
that they wanted to invest equity in

1225
00:56:52,260 --> 00:56:54,342
and go in on a cooperative

1226
00:56:54,342 --> 00:56:58,530
and I would say that a cooperative
is going to have a board

1227
00:56:58,530 --> 00:57:03,530
of directors based on who
joins that cooperative.

1228
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,880
Cooperative would be completely voluntary

1229
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,030
because that's not a mandatory program.

1230
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:11,700
So, you know, example, you
know, Matt, I don't know,

1231
00:57:11,700 --> 00:57:13,170
I'm not sure, I know there's

1232
00:57:13,170 --> 00:57:15,616
a couple smaller
cooperatives regionally here.

1233
00:57:15,616 --> 00:57:19,200
I don't know if the maple
industry has an appetite

1234
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,279
for a large cooperative.

1235
00:57:21,279 --> 00:57:24,847
-Haven't seen yet.
-[Matt] I might be terming

1236
00:57:24,847 --> 00:57:29,220
it incorrectly, if it becomes
the government mandate.

1237
00:57:29,220 --> 00:57:30,390
Right, right, right.

1238
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:31,223
[Matt] Who runs it?

1239
00:57:31,223 --> 00:57:36,110
Yeah so, you know, the
different, active USDA,

1240
00:57:37,290 --> 00:57:39,210
let's call 'em the AMS market agreements

1241
00:57:39,210 --> 00:57:40,960
that are in place for other commodities,

1242
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,079
they are run by boards

1243
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:48,210
and the boards are built with people,

1244
00:57:48,210 --> 00:57:50,573
with voting rights on those boards

1245
00:57:50,573 --> 00:57:54,540
that are the included part,

1246
00:57:54,540 --> 00:57:56,490
the included participants,
the contributors.

1247
00:57:56,490 --> 00:58:01,490
So those that pay into the
programs become the participants

1248
00:58:02,773 --> 00:58:07,773
and they are then built into the boards.

1249
00:58:09,330 --> 00:58:12,443
And I can't explain to you right offhand

1250
00:58:12,443 --> 00:58:15,450
how those members are appointed.

1251
00:58:15,450 --> 00:58:17,610
I don't know if it would be a progression

1252
00:58:17,610 --> 00:58:19,914
through say state producer associations.

1253
00:58:19,914 --> 00:58:23,203
I'm not exactly sure how
the delegates get selected,

1254
00:58:23,203 --> 00:58:26,760
but that is part of it, that's part

1255
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,567
of the government's framework
is to identify how would

1256
00:58:30,567 --> 00:58:35,567
that board be built and
who would be put on it.

1257
00:58:37,290 --> 00:58:38,283
So, great question.

1258
00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:41,400
[Matt] So I'm hoping, I'd like to expand

1259
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:42,630
on my question a little bit,

1260
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:44,500
and I'm hoping you can tell me I'm wrong.

1261
00:58:44,500 --> 00:58:49,500
I fear that a seat on that
panel can be purchased

1262
00:58:49,886 --> 00:58:52,953
not through maple syrup,
but through money.

1263
00:58:54,270 --> 00:58:57,030
So somebody who has nothing
to do with maple syrup

1264
00:58:57,030 --> 00:59:01,650
can buy a seat and a vote on
that board if it is government,

1265
00:59:01,650 --> 00:59:04,800
and if I understand it
correctly, that's the case.

1266
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,720
But I might be wrong and I hope I am.

1267
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:07,846
I'm not aware of that.

1268
00:59:07,846 --> 00:59:11,140
The little we looked at
into board makeup was

1269
00:59:11,140 --> 00:59:15,300
that representing bodies or associations

1270
00:59:15,300 --> 00:59:18,870
or in this case regions,
had voting delegates

1271
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:21,480
based on the volume of
product they actually put in.

1272
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,454
So the example that we
looked at was like beef

1273
00:59:23,454 --> 00:59:27,660
and that certain states like Vermont

1274
00:59:27,660 --> 00:59:31,212
don't have voting members on
the beef council, let's say.

1275
00:59:31,212 --> 00:59:35,610
But Oklahoma may have a number
of voting delegates compared

1276
00:59:35,610 --> 00:59:37,671
to New Mexico compared to,

1277
00:59:37,671 --> 00:59:42,671
I don't know who I've said,
Arizona or something like that.

1278
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,930
So yeah, I think you're
getting to the heart of it,

1279
00:59:45,930 --> 00:59:47,730
especially as we're
talking about governances.

1280
00:59:47,730 --> 00:59:49,080
How is that structured?

1281
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:50,880
Here's a relevant example for maple.

1282
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,380
As it was described to me,

1283
00:59:52,380 --> 00:59:55,950
if a maple program under USDA frameworks

1284
00:59:55,950 --> 00:59:58,585
went into effect in the United States,

1285
00:59:58,585 --> 01:00:03,585
there could be an option to
include imported Canadian syrup.

1286
01:00:03,951 --> 01:00:05,574
If that was the case,

1287
01:00:05,574 --> 01:00:09,158
the importers would potentially
have a seat at the board

1288
01:00:09,158 --> 01:00:12,071
and it would be based
on the volume of syrup

1289
01:00:12,071 --> 01:00:13,380
that moved through.

1290
01:00:13,380 --> 01:00:15,090
So this was a discussion
that happened early

1291
01:00:15,090 --> 01:00:17,220
on was, huh, interesting.

1292
01:00:17,220 --> 01:00:21,863
So if most of the syrup in the
US is actually Canadian syrup

1293
01:00:21,863 --> 01:00:23,426
that comes across the border,

1294
01:00:23,426 --> 01:00:25,590
if we were to establish a program

1295
01:00:25,590 --> 01:00:29,496
and divide the voting
delegates based on volume,

1296
01:00:29,496 --> 01:00:34,496
there could be more voting
power in the hands of importers.

1297
01:00:39,750 --> 01:00:41,377
At that particular time, I
think a lot of people said,

1298
01:00:41,377 --> 01:00:42,510
"I don't know if that's the direction

1299
01:00:42,510 --> 01:00:43,710
we wanna go with this."

1300
01:00:43,710 --> 01:00:45,510
So there's a definite,
you know, the structure

1301
01:00:45,510 --> 01:00:47,760
of the programs I think
relate to your question

1302
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,520
of who gets on the voting board

1303
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,910
and I don't know the specifics, that idea

1304
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:56,250
of if there are appointees

1305
01:00:56,250 --> 01:00:57,870
and how that happens,

1306
01:00:57,870 --> 01:00:59,250
I think there's a certain amount of,

1307
01:00:59,250 --> 01:01:00,660
I gotta assume there's some politicking

1308
01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:02,094
if there's state representatives.

1309
01:01:02,094 --> 01:01:06,420
I don't know if there's
mechanics in the statutes

1310
01:01:06,420 --> 01:01:09,401
of how the USDA has to
let that be navigated.

1311
01:01:09,401 --> 01:01:13,050
So, great question, terrific
question, good active chat.

1312
01:01:13,050 --> 01:01:14,280
I'm willing to stay on
for a couple minutes

1313
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:15,664
if anyone's gotta get
off, feel free to get off.

1314
01:01:15,664 --> 01:01:18,900
Let's just go for like
another five minutes max here

1315
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:23,626
and we'll see...dairy comments.

1316
01:01:23,626 --> 01:01:24,690
"How does PPAQ, our honey marketer,

1317
01:01:24,690 --> 01:01:26,792
protect the small producer?

1318
01:01:26,792 --> 01:01:28,980
Nick, great question.

1319
01:01:28,980 --> 01:01:30,780
I think the idea of
protect is a little bit,

1320
01:01:30,780 --> 01:01:33,333
you know, subjective
here because I don't know

1321
01:01:33,333 --> 01:01:37,680
if these, in the case of honey,

1322
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,030
I don't know where the exemptions are.

1323
01:01:39,030 --> 01:01:42,090
So I don't know if honey
has small producers

1324
01:01:42,090 --> 01:01:44,250
that actually are required
to pay assessments in

1325
01:01:44,250 --> 01:01:46,436
or if they're exempted.

1326
01:01:46,436 --> 01:01:51,436
But I think scale is always
relevant in our discussions.

1327
01:01:52,260 --> 01:01:54,430
I think a lot of people have
assumed there's some cutoff

1328
01:01:54,430 --> 01:01:57,150
for maple of small scale producers

1329
01:01:57,150 --> 01:02:00,450
where there's just not enough syrup coming

1330
01:02:00,450 --> 01:02:03,008
from smaller producers to try
to like disenfranchise them

1331
01:02:03,008 --> 01:02:04,273
with an assessment.

1332
01:02:04,273 --> 01:02:07,050
If they're selling syrup from
their door yard as an example,

1333
01:02:07,050 --> 01:02:08,395
and they're doing their
own marketing promotion,

1334
01:02:08,395 --> 01:02:11,634
they're selling syrup, we're
not really trying to pull them

1335
01:02:11,634 --> 01:02:14,586
into assessments to grow demand.

1336
01:02:14,586 --> 01:02:15,677
But then when we mention

1337
01:02:15,677 --> 01:02:18,581
the 70,000 tap organic maple operation,

1338
01:02:18,581 --> 01:02:21,930
that's maybe putting
it all in bulk barrels

1339
01:02:21,930 --> 01:02:24,000
and we think that may be a target,

1340
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:28,196
that's a syrup that could
benefit from market growth.

1341
01:02:28,196 --> 01:02:30,693
So not a great answer there.

1342
01:02:33,660 --> 01:02:36,840
[Matt] So the purpose of
this, I'm sorry, Mark,

1343
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,037
I'm not interrupting anybody else, am I?

1344
01:02:38,037 --> 01:02:39,270
No, no, no, go for it.

1345
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:40,350
We got, yeah.

1346
01:02:40,350 --> 01:02:42,579
[Matt] So the purpose of this is

1347
01:02:42,579 --> 01:02:47,043
to develop the expansion
of maple, of syrup.

1348
01:02:48,567 --> 01:02:51,236
Not production, production's
getting expanded on its own.

1349
01:02:51,236 --> 01:02:53,227
This, the idea of this,

1350
01:02:53,227 --> 01:02:57,589
we're investigating collective
market development programs

1351
01:02:57,589 --> 01:02:59,100
to do two things.

1352
01:02:59,100 --> 01:03:02,580
To say we wanna make sure
that the market demand

1353
01:03:02,580 --> 01:03:06,720
for syrup grows and the
idea of it being collective,

1354
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,080
I think also is saying,
yes, there may be state

1355
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,660
and local promotion programs,
but there may be a reason

1356
01:03:12,660 --> 01:03:14,072
for there to be something broader

1357
01:03:14,072 --> 01:03:16,322
to encompass all of US efforts,

1358
01:03:16,322 --> 01:03:19,380
given the dynamics of the market changing.

1359
01:03:19,380 --> 01:03:24,380
So trying to grow markets for maple.

1360
01:03:24,570 --> 01:03:28,615
[Matt] So what happens
if the market grows,

1361
01:03:28,615 --> 01:03:32,970
and we have a year like
last year where the reserve

1362
01:03:32,970 --> 01:03:36,723
went to, what was it, 2 million
pounds of table grade syrup?

1363
01:03:37,770 --> 01:03:42,330
And we just grew a market
and now we can't meet demand.

1364
01:03:42,330 --> 01:03:45,001
No, I think that, I think
you, you raise a great point.

1365
01:03:45,001 --> 01:03:50,001
This is the dynamic of do we, are there,

1366
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:55,770
do you mediate kind of that
kind of, those ups and downs?

1367
01:03:55,770 --> 01:03:57,670
Do you have to kind of ride with them?

1368
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,710
In this case, the reason the market

1369
01:04:01,710 --> 01:04:05,070
wasn't extremely interrupted
was because the PPAQ

1370
01:04:05,070 --> 01:04:06,510
has a market management program

1371
01:04:06,510 --> 01:04:08,910
with an inventory program right?

1372
01:04:08,910 --> 01:04:11,400
What would've happened if the PPAQ

1373
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:13,083
did not have a strategic reserve?

1374
01:04:15,060 --> 01:04:16,623
I don't know of one in the US.

1375
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:23,040
[Arnie] Well in the US it's
at Bascom's and Anderson's

1376
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:28,040
and all of the major housing
places, our historic buyers,

1377
01:04:28,364 --> 01:04:31,083
but I don't know how they did.

1378
01:04:32,823 --> 01:04:36,573
Maybe they were buying from Quebec.

1379
01:04:39,810 --> 01:04:41,755
Yeah, great question.

1380
01:04:41,755 --> 01:04:44,220
I mean, yeah, you don't
wanna grow markets faster

1381
01:04:44,220 --> 01:04:45,930
than they can be served.

1382
01:04:45,930 --> 01:04:47,130
There's a balance there.

1383
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,040
I'm gonna hit the chat again here.

1384
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,261
Arnie, 55% of Christmas tree growers voted

1385
01:04:52,261 --> 01:04:54,387
in '19 to continue their program.

1386
01:04:54,387 --> 01:04:57,000
So the program, even though the program

1387
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,600
was showing good ROI,
so there's an example

1388
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:02,910
that the vote came up
again for Christmas tree.

1389
01:05:02,910 --> 01:05:07,590
It's a relatively new
program showing good results

1390
01:05:07,590 --> 01:05:09,750
and 55% said, "Yeah, we want it."

1391
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:11,955
Close to being voted out.

1392
01:05:11,955 --> 01:05:16,230
Darren says, "Would a market
order inhibit local state,

1393
01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:17,490
or regional marketing?"

1394
01:05:17,490 --> 01:05:18,510
No, I don't think so.

1395
01:05:18,510 --> 01:05:20,635
I think there's a big
question of, you know,

1396
01:05:20,635 --> 01:05:22,650
what would a market order do?

1397
01:05:22,650 --> 01:05:24,720
What would the generic message be?

1398
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,260
There are definitely
instances right now where some

1399
01:05:28,260 --> 01:05:31,470
of the national market orders
and promotion boards have sort

1400
01:05:31,470 --> 01:05:33,790
of a interaction with
state based associations

1401
01:05:33,790 --> 01:05:35,739
and I think there's even some fund sharing

1402
01:05:35,739 --> 01:05:37,380
that gets put into it.

1403
01:05:37,380 --> 01:05:41,430
So I think there are different
ways to go about that.

1404
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:43,680
And it's, I don't think it's an either or.

1405
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,330
I think there's an "and" thing going

1406
01:05:45,330 --> 01:05:47,761
where there's still
state promotion happening

1407
01:05:47,761 --> 01:05:51,570
and then there is the recognition
for some of the products

1408
01:05:51,570 --> 01:05:53,902
where they've said, "Hey,
state origin doesn't matter

1409
01:05:53,902 --> 01:05:55,920
to someone in Santa Fe, New Mexico,

1410
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:00,450
so we're not gonna bother
calling it New England beef.

1411
01:06:00,450 --> 01:06:01,530
It's just beef."

1412
01:06:01,530 --> 01:06:03,403
So there's the beef promotion saying

1413
01:06:03,403 --> 01:06:05,001
we're gonna go generic here.

1414
01:06:05,001 --> 01:06:07,687
We don't need, they don't
care what state it comes from.

1415
01:06:07,687 --> 01:06:11,160
That's very different than
someone say in Ohio wanting

1416
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,530
to do like an Ohio maple promotion.

1417
01:06:13,530 --> 01:06:14,745
[Matt] You're from Vermont, right?

1418
01:06:14,745 --> 01:06:19,200
I live in Vermont, I'm
from Syracuse, New York.

1419
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,680
Okay, well I'm, it just, it puzzled me

1420
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,560
when you said somebody from
Vermont is not worried about

1421
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,050
what state maple syrup comes from.

1422
01:06:28,050 --> 01:06:29,730
Sorry, had to pick (laughs).

1423
01:06:29,730 --> 01:06:31,680
Well, no, I, no, I'll
say that quite clearly.

1424
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:33,030
I work with a lot of Vermont producers

1425
01:06:33,030 --> 01:06:35,160
and they're saying we get our syrup

1426
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:40,032
into other markets, other
metro markets across the US

1427
01:06:40,032 --> 01:06:44,160
and there is conversation,
they're saying they don't care

1428
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,142
if it's from Vermont.

1429
01:06:45,142 --> 01:06:47,774
They want high quality maple syrup,

1430
01:06:47,774 --> 01:06:51,060
and there are some people in
other parts of the country,

1431
01:06:51,060 --> 01:06:51,893
they don't know the difference

1432
01:06:51,893 --> 01:06:53,610
between Vermont and New Hampshire.

1433
01:06:53,610 --> 01:06:56,113
And I think that's the importance
of market research is that

1434
01:06:56,113 --> 01:06:59,352
for maple producers there's
a certain ethic or an idea.

1435
01:06:59,352 --> 01:07:01,890
And that's not to say
Vermont doesn't have cache.

1436
01:07:01,890 --> 01:07:02,723
I know it does.

1437
01:07:02,723 --> 01:07:04,101
Historically, it has.

1438
01:07:04,101 --> 01:07:06,030
I do know from talking to packers,

1439
01:07:06,030 --> 01:07:07,530
Vermont doesn't have a premium

1440
01:07:07,530 --> 01:07:10,345
on shelves anymore, payment premium.

1441
01:07:10,345 --> 01:07:13,766
It may make someone decide
to buy syrup from Vermont,

1442
01:07:13,766 --> 01:07:15,960
but the price premium isn't there anymore,

1443
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,480
and I think this is where
we get at the dynamics.

1444
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,930
Is the market today the same
market it was 20 years ago?

1445
01:07:21,930 --> 01:07:25,623
And you know, I think it's changing.

1446
01:07:29,343 --> 01:07:31,822
Let's get one more here.

1447
01:07:31,822 --> 01:07:34,110
"Stu, I have not heard anything

1448
01:07:34,110 --> 01:07:35,550
that suggests government mandated.

1449
01:07:35,550 --> 01:07:37,920
The question is what, if
anything, maple producers want

1450
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:39,510
to do to promote marketing?"

1451
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:41,340
Yeah, I mean I think that's
the general question here.

1452
01:07:41,340 --> 01:07:43,260
You know, are producers gonna continue

1453
01:07:43,260 --> 01:07:44,190
to work independently?

1454
01:07:44,190 --> 01:07:45,374
Nothing wrong with that.

1455
01:07:45,374 --> 01:07:49,260
Packers are certainly doing a
great job moving record crops

1456
01:07:49,260 --> 01:07:50,250
and record crops.

1457
01:07:50,250 --> 01:07:53,327
So we're not saying the system is broken,

1458
01:07:53,327 --> 01:07:55,110
but there's a lot of people

1459
01:07:55,110 --> 01:07:56,490
that look at that per capita stat

1460
01:07:56,490 --> 01:08:00,750
and they say, "I don't know,
could we, could we do better?

1461
01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:04,320
Could we pull resources?"

1462
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:05,193
Open question.

1463
01:08:09,780 --> 01:08:12,210
Yep, Darren makes a good
product, different, good point,

1464
01:08:12,210 --> 01:08:13,680
different product forms.

1465
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:15,930
Maple syrup as a table grade is different

1466
01:08:15,930 --> 01:08:18,420
than value added, it's
different than ingredients

1467
01:08:18,420 --> 01:08:19,683
and food products.

1468
01:08:21,630 --> 01:08:23,580
Lot to peel away.

1469
01:08:23,580 --> 01:08:24,413
Well I wanna wrap up,

1470
01:08:24,413 --> 01:08:25,246
I really appreciate the folks

1471
01:08:25,246 --> 01:08:26,790
that stuck on a little bit longer,

1472
01:08:26,790 --> 01:08:28,410
but I wanna respect everyone's time

1473
01:08:28,410 --> 01:08:33,410
and what I will say is
for those of you on,

1474
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:35,929
if you have any really strong opinions

1475
01:08:35,929 --> 01:08:38,813
and you wanna follow up with
me, please send me an email,

1476
01:08:38,813 --> 01:08:43,813
Mark Cannella, mark.cannella@uvm.edu

1477
01:08:44,220 --> 01:08:45,840
and you could find it online.

1478
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,533
We are looking at potentially
another year of research

1479
01:08:48,533 --> 01:08:50,787
to get people's input on this

1480
01:08:50,787 --> 01:08:54,996
and I think it's great to
hear points, counterpoints.

1481
01:08:54,996 --> 01:08:56,880
What about the dairy?

1482
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:57,713
This scares me.

1483
01:08:57,713 --> 01:09:01,860
Even the comments here really
gives us a good understanding

1484
01:09:01,860 --> 01:09:04,650
of what it means for people

1485
01:09:04,650 --> 01:09:07,792
to think about this idea of promotion.

1486
01:09:07,792 --> 01:09:11,070
And I'll also asking questions

1487
01:09:11,070 --> 01:09:12,960
about what do people
feel about not knowing

1488
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:14,550
where prices are gonna be.

1489
01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:15,750
'Cause that's part of the dynamic

1490
01:09:15,750 --> 01:09:18,003
as well of, you know, price volatility.

1491
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,150
So I'm gonna leave it at that,

1492
01:09:21,150 --> 01:09:22,434
I wanna thank you all for coming.

1493
01:09:22,434 --> 01:09:26,280
Next week I am doing a
webinar on Maple Finances

1494
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:30,327
and then two weeks out, Chris
Lindgren, or three weeks out

1495
01:09:30,327 --> 01:09:35,327
Chris Lindgren on SAP Enterprises
and wish you all the best.

1496
01:09:36,386 --> 01:09:37,713
Have a good evening.