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To welcome you to tonight's webinar

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about maple quality in
the marketplace today.

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Folks will be trickling in a little bit,

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but we're gonna just
keep charging right ahead

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and get started with the webinar.

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Mark Canella is going
to be watching the chat,

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so if there are questions,

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especially technical things
that are making it difficult

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to enjoy the presentation,
please pop those in the chat.

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Also, if you're interested
in signing up for more,

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there's three more in this series,

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and the next one will be
on SAP business finance.

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Make sure that you register
for the upcoming webinar.

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It's 48 hours in advance,

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so it closes at the end of the day

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on the Monday before the webinar.

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If you have questions, feel
free to pop them in the chat.

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Mark will interrupt if they're timely

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and need to be asked right away.

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Otherwise, we can do some Q&A at the end.

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And without further ado,

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I appreciate everyone showing up,

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and we'll get started.

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So just to give you a little background

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on what we're gonna be talking about,

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this is a project that was funded again

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through an (indistinct) Access Project.

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And Mark and I,

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Mark Cannella and I wrote
this section of the grant

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to kind of look at what is the status

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of maple syrup quality in the marketplace.

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And specifically we wanted
to do online purchases.

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We wanted to see really just the basics.

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How much of the syrup
that you order online

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meet the basic standards

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for color, clarity, density, and flavor?

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And then there's some secondary topics

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that we are curious about.

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Trends as far as how packaging was done,

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container types, and shipping.

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Tonight we're just gonna be focusing

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on the syrup quality aspect,

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but stay tuned for more information

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about what we're learning

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in terms of shipping
costs, container types,

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and really just the
nature of how sugar makers

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have chosen to ship this product.

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So really what we're talking about

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are color, clarity, density, and flavor.

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Those are the fundamental
basics of grading maple syrup.

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They relate to specific
regulations and laws

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across the the maple region,

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and they are written down,

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and they're something that
no matter what size producer,

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if you're choosing to sell
it in the marketplace,

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you have to meet the minimum standards

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in these four key areas.

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What is important to remember though,

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is that some of these basic,

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some of these regulations have
a very quantitative measure

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and others are a little
bit more subjective

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or a little harder to measure.

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I think we can all agree that flavor

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is not something that's easily measured

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in a quantitative way,

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but things like density,

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we have instrumentation to do that, color.

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Typically we'll use a color comparator.

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And clarity is one of those ones

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that's not really written
down in a quantitative way.

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The regulations can be
sometimes hard to find,

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so if I've compiled some of them

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on the UVM Extension Maple
page, you can go to that.

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It's a sidebar at that regular maple page.

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Just search for UVN Extension
Maple and you'll get our site.

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And it's important to realize

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that there are both state
and federal regulations.

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If you're tuning in from Canada,

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provincial and federal regulations,

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for almost 10 years now

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since the harmonization of the grades.

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So they're a little less confusing

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than maybe they were before,

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but you'll see from
the results of our work

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that producers still
struggle in some places

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to meet these standards.

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So I really encourage everyone
to refresh your memory

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about what the regulations actually say,

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how they relate to the
products that you're marketing,

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and just to make sure

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that you're meeting
those minimum standards.

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And it's not just us looking into this.

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The Agency of Ag in the state of Vermont

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has been doing retail
inspections for a few years now.

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Essentially what it is inspector

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for the consumer protection
section of the Agency of Ag

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will go into a retail marketplace,

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identify that maples being sold,

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check a certain number of containers

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and really grade them for the basics,

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color, clarity, flavor and density.

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It's not anything more
complicated than that.

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And we're finding as a
result of these inspections

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that issues are coming up,

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and you can read more about
it on the agency website.

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They post the results
of these inspections.

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But just realize that this
is part of making sure

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that consumers are getting
what they are paying for.

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And Maple is a high quality product

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that derives a lot of
its value from the purity

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and the high quality of the product.

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And if there are defects,

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it's less likely that you're
gonna have a repeat customer

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and it's entirely possible that consumers

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will find something else
to use for sweetener

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if they have repeated problems.

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So unfortunately, the
agency has found defects.

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Color tends to be the most common defect.

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Syrup that is graded as a lighter grade.

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So when the inspector goes and tests

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that it's actually too dark for the grade,

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and would fall out of the standard.

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So that's 2021.

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We won't go too deep into those results,

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but the work continues.

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This is actually...

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I should have changed the title.

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It is 2022 results.

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Continuing to be an issue.

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And actually perhaps
2022 was worse than 2021.

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There's close to 40% of all samples

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or just over 40% of all
samples were out of compliance.

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And color continues to be the
number one issue of defect.

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And as you can see,
both years, 2021, 2022,

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these inspections are done

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between January and June of the year,

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and presumably that is syrup

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that was packaged and
produced the year before,

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but the inspector has no way of knowing

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how or when that syrup was packaged.

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It's a bit of an oddity about these rules

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in that it's the producer's
name on the package

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who's responsible for the
product to meet the standard,

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not the store owner, not the distributor.

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It's really the producer's name on there.

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And that can be a
challenge for the producer

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if the retailer is not cycling
their product quick enough.

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So it does seem a little
odd that a producer

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might indefinitely have
to expect their syrup

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to meet the standard,

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even if when they
delivered it, it was fine,

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and in a reasonable amount of time,

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it would've been still in grade.

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With color especially, that
is a bit of a challenge.

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2022, the state also
identified some issues

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with lead, with mold, buddy
and metallic off flavor.

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So it's not just color.

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There are other issues found as well.

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[Mark] Question come in
from Meg for you, Mark.

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"How often would you
recommend testing samples

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from your inventory to
double check color?"

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Right.

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That's a great question.

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So we know,

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and I'll get into the
research a little bit later,

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but we do know

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that there's a fairly
steady rate of darkening

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in plastic containers.

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We don't have great data

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on the darkening in glass containers

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or honestly, darkening in barrels,

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so it really depends.

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With plastic, the rate
is fairly well known.

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It's just over 2% per month,

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2% light transmittance per month
in plastic that is uncoated

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and it's about a little
less than half of that

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in coated containers.

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But I'll go over that
data in a little bit.

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Another issue that comes up in Vermont

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is the issue of labeling,

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but also labeling with a batch code.

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The Vermont maple regulations require

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that a producer has a batch code,

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a way of identifying a
particular batch of syrup

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from all others.

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And I think that's information

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that really hasn't gotten widely absorbed

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by the maple industry.

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So the inspectors are continuing to find

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that issue with labeling
and lack of batch code.

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So trying to spread the word about that.

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The other issue that is
perhaps unique to Vermont

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is that the expectation from the agency

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is that when syrup is
purchased in Vermont,

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it meet Vermont standards.

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So this is directly
relevant to the project

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we're about to talk about

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in that if you sell syrup
into the state of Vermont,

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it needs to meet those minimum standards.

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It just so happens that the
minimum standards in Vermont

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for density are higher than all other,

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at least virtually, all
other states and provinces.

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So it is something that
needs to be contemplated

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when you're selling syrup
into the state of Vermont.

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The color breakdown, the ranges for color

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in the four grades of
syrup remain the same

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across all states and provinces however.

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One last bit of information

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before we get into the
data and the methods

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is maple contest judging.

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It's something that I'm able to do

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as part of my job as maple specialist.

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Last year, excuse me,

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I helped with five
different maple contests.

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These are generally held with
the county maple organization,

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especially those that have
a volunteer sugar house

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at a county fair.

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So Orange County, Caledonia,
Orleans, Lamoille,

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and Chittenden County
all have sugar houses

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at their county fair and they
have a maple contest there.

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And as you can see, the rate of rejection

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ranged from 25% in Orange,

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to as high as 66% in Chittenden County.

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Relatively small sample sizes

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the most being in Orange with 28 total

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and the fewest in Lamoille with nine.

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All of those contests,

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the most common rejection was for color,

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too dark for the grade.

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And here you see an an example of syrup

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that was entered into the
golden delicate category,

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the standard from the
grade kits in the middle,

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and then both the sample jar

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and then the majority of
the sample that was entered

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is on the right.

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So very much too dark.

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And unfortunately it continued again.

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It's an issue 2022.

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I've done three this year.

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The Maple Festival in St.
Albans, 49% rejection.

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Chittenden County, it was quite high, 62.

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And Orleans, which actually
just happened today,

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was 52.5% rejection.

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And it could be...

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Color is definitely a very common.

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We saw issues with density.

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And this sample here had
an issue with clarity

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with something floating in
that sample that was entered.

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If I could give just one
simple bit of information

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or guidance to anyone
entering a contest, well, two,

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one would be definitely enter a contest.

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It's a very cheap way

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of checking your quality of your product.

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You have unbiased judges who are trained

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to judge on the basics,

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and they're gonna give you honest feedback

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on what your syrup is.

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So it's a really good idea

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to enter as many contests as you can.

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And then the other is
always check your sample

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before you enter.

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It doesn't have to be hot packed

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when it's entered into the contest,

264
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:33,960
it just has to meet the standard
when the judges judge it.

265
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,450
So find out when the judging will happen,

266
00:12:36,450 --> 00:12:38,153
enter it right then,

267
00:12:38,153 --> 00:12:42,183
and you'll have the best
chance at not getting rejected.

268
00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:46,854
Okay, so the methods for this project

269
00:12:46,854 --> 00:12:50,697
were to order samples
of golden delicate syrup

270
00:12:50,697 --> 00:12:52,620
and dark robust syrup.

271
00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:54,990
And the way Mark and I handled this

272
00:12:54,990 --> 00:12:57,990
was ordering from two separate locations

273
00:12:57,990 --> 00:13:00,120
using the same search terms

274
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,330
and we wanted to make sure we could get

275
00:13:03,330 --> 00:13:06,364
a pint of both samples

276
00:13:06,364 --> 00:13:09,243
so we had enough to run
it with a hydrometer.

277
00:13:10,380 --> 00:13:14,974
Obviously the way search websites work,

278
00:13:14,974 --> 00:13:19,060
they're gonna have a slightly
different mix of results,

279
00:13:21,540 --> 00:13:26,540
but in general, we ordered
samples from the highest,

280
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:29,940
the ones at the top of the list

281
00:13:29,940 --> 00:13:32,043
until we filled our quota for samples

282
00:13:32,043 --> 00:13:33,720
that we needed to order.

283
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,510
We ordered three of each
so we had some replications

284
00:13:36,510 --> 00:13:39,924
so we would feel confident
about those statistics

285
00:13:39,924 --> 00:13:41,583
when we analyzed them.

286
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,380
So a total, as I said, six pints,

287
00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:51,930
two from each individual's market,

288
00:13:51,930 --> 00:13:55,110
and I both ordered separately
for both golden and dark.

289
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:57,960
And then there were
also some unique things

290
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,750
in that at least one state in the US

291
00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:02,115
does not require grading.

292
00:14:02,115 --> 00:14:03,753
I know there are others.

293
00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:09,420
And we also wanna just keep
track of unique packaging,

294
00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:11,250
container size, if it wasn't a pint

295
00:14:11,250 --> 00:14:12,960
or a pint wasn't available,

296
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,970
we also wanted to make note of that.

297
00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:16,800
So some of the methods,

298
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,330
it's also important to realize

299
00:14:18,330 --> 00:14:20,700
that we were dealing with COVID lockdown.

300
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:23,280
So the syrup was purchased

301
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:28,280
between October 15th
and November 15th, 2020.

302
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:31,800
The university prevented
us from getting right on it

303
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,860
as far as access to
space to do this judging,

304
00:14:34,860 --> 00:14:38,610
so they were stored for several months.

305
00:14:38,610 --> 00:14:41,608
They were two different storage areas.

306
00:14:41,608 --> 00:14:44,370
One was in a cold storage

307
00:14:44,370 --> 00:14:48,150
where it was 33 to 36 degrees Fahrenheit

308
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:50,130
and one was at room temperature

309
00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:53,580
fluctuating between 64 and 68.

310
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:57,452
Interestingly enough,
we compared the results.

311
00:14:57,452 --> 00:14:59,640
So we had two separate groups,

312
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,180
cold storage and room temperature storage.

313
00:15:03,180 --> 00:15:07,170
In those months, from
October, November, 2020

314
00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:10,350
to March and April, 2021
when we did the testing,

315
00:15:10,350 --> 00:15:12,812
we saw no differences
between those two groups

316
00:15:12,812 --> 00:15:15,030
in those same samples,

317
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:18,480
which I thought was a pretty
interesting result to throw

318
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,540
in the middle of a method section.

319
00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:24,930
So we did end up getting time and ability

320
00:15:24,930 --> 00:15:26,970
to get in to a space

321
00:15:26,970 --> 00:15:30,030
and do the grading of the syrup

322
00:15:30,030 --> 00:15:33,630
between March and April of 2021.

323
00:15:33,630 --> 00:15:37,290
So now, again, we don't know
when the syrup was produced,

324
00:15:37,290 --> 00:15:40,020
presumably it was
produced the year before,

325
00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:44,730
so March, April, perhaps
some February, 2020.

326
00:15:44,730 --> 00:15:47,250
So now we're talking 12 calendar months

327
00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:49,710
from whenever it was produced,

328
00:15:49,710 --> 00:15:51,300
to when it's actually being graded.

329
00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:52,920
And that's very important,

330
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,640
especially in terms of syrup color,

331
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,003
and we'll talk about that
as we dive into the results.

332
00:16:01,890 --> 00:16:05,400
The instruments and the methods
used for judging this syrup

333
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,700
were no different than you
would use in a sugar house

334
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:11,460
other than we're not in
the middle of production.

335
00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:12,960
So we're checking clarity

336
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,320
just with a visual examination
in the sample bottle.

337
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:17,730
If there's anything floating,

338
00:16:17,730 --> 00:16:21,780
anything obvious of a
defect in terms of clarity,

339
00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:24,870
then it would be noted
and it would be rejected.

340
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:27,240
The regulations, the wording
is slightly different

341
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,440
in different states and provinces
or at the federal level.

342
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,130
Most of the language around
clarity says something

343
00:16:35,130 --> 00:16:39,390
like syrup must be
practically clean and clear.

344
00:16:39,390 --> 00:16:42,120
Now that doesn't give you
a quantitative measure.

345
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,170
There's no instrument,

346
00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:44,460
there's no turbidity meter

347
00:16:44,460 --> 00:16:46,080
that is used in the maple industry

348
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,610
so we can't compare it
to a certain standard.

349
00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:52,225
We know that in practice,

350
00:16:52,225 --> 00:16:56,670
sugar makers use a variety
of filtering methods.

351
00:16:56,670 --> 00:17:00,690
Everything from a
relatively simple technique

352
00:17:00,690 --> 00:17:04,313
of pouring hot syrup
through a cloth cone filter

353
00:17:04,313 --> 00:17:06,120
or a flat filter,

354
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:10,350
all the way up to a
diatomaceous earth filter

355
00:17:10,350 --> 00:17:11,433
or a filter press.

356
00:17:13,530 --> 00:17:16,320
Given that the standard does
not say anything specific

357
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,290
about a measure of clarity,

358
00:17:19,290 --> 00:17:22,380
the interpretation in
terms of that clarity

359
00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:24,360
is practically clean and clear.

360
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:28,050
So it could in theory have a slight haze

361
00:17:28,050 --> 00:17:31,410
as long as that haze is uniform

362
00:17:31,410 --> 00:17:36,270
and doesn't represent a
significant defect in clarity.

363
00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:38,910
And again, that's not very satisfying

364
00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:40,890
as far as knowing whether or not

365
00:17:40,890 --> 00:17:42,480
you're meeting the standard,

366
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,990
but in my understanding
of that regulation,

367
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:49,860
as long as it has uniform clarity,

368
00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:53,070
even if it might have a slight
haze, that's acceptable.

369
00:17:53,070 --> 00:17:55,105
What's not acceptable is very cloudy

370
00:17:55,105 --> 00:18:00,105
or some foreign body
floating in that syrup.

371
00:18:01,590 --> 00:18:04,200
And it'd be great in the
Q&A to have a discussion

372
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,000
if this is something
people are interested in

373
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,050
because the regulations are pretty thin

374
00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:11,600
when it comes to this standard.

375
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:15,005
For density, we used both hydrometers

376
00:18:15,005 --> 00:18:16,950
that were temperature corrected

377
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:19,050
as well as digital refractometers,

378
00:18:19,050 --> 00:18:20,700
which were calibrated.

379
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:25,700
And those are the two standard
pieces of instrumentation

380
00:18:25,710 --> 00:18:27,530
used for measuring density.

381
00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:30,750
In color, we use three
different techniques.

382
00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:32,460
We use a temporary grading kit,

383
00:18:32,460 --> 00:18:35,790
which is a mix of caramel
color and glycerin,

384
00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:39,150
which is mixed up every year and sold

385
00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:42,840
through the Vermont Maple
Sugar Makers Association.

386
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,060
It's really important
that people highlight

387
00:18:45,060 --> 00:18:48,630
that the temporary grading
kit is an inexpensive guide

388
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:50,340
to grading color.

389
00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:52,350
It is not the standard.

390
00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:57,240
It is not a precise
instrument, it's a guide.

391
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,362
And I think there tends to be

392
00:19:00,362 --> 00:19:04,140
perhaps a little bit of
overreliance on those grading kits

393
00:19:04,140 --> 00:19:08,160
because anyone who's used them knows

394
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,890
the hue isn't exactly right,

395
00:19:10,890 --> 00:19:14,190
there can be a range in
redness in pure maple syrup

396
00:19:14,190 --> 00:19:17,100
that just isn't reflected in
these temporary standards.

397
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:22,100
So really, be mindful
when you're grading syrup,

398
00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:25,980
especially when it's right on
the edge between two grades.

399
00:19:25,980 --> 00:19:29,850
And also recognize that
these temporary standards

400
00:19:29,850 --> 00:19:32,580
will change color over time.

401
00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:35,280
They tend to get lighter over time.

402
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,350
So it's really important to know that.

403
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:39,510
And the best practices

404
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:42,570
if you're gonna rely on
these temporary grading kits

405
00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:44,223
is to buy a new one every year.

406
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,850
We also used a Hannah meter,

407
00:19:47,850 --> 00:19:51,300
which is a single wavelength photo meter

408
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:55,170
that relies on shooting a beam
of light through a sample ,

409
00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:58,290
through a very specific glass vial,

410
00:19:58,290 --> 00:20:01,140
and then the sensor
reads light transmittance

411
00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:02,133
on the other end.

412
00:20:03,690 --> 00:20:06,750
The Hannah meter is an
affordable instrument.

413
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:10,263
People like it because it
gives you a precise number.

414
00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:14,850
I will throw a little caution here and say

415
00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:19,410
that although it gives
you a digital number,

416
00:20:19,410 --> 00:20:24,410
there are some issues with the
error with these instruments.

417
00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:29,880
So there's plus or minus
4% light transmittance.

418
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,370
And if you think of a whole grade,

419
00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:35,310
golden is a 25-point range.

420
00:20:35,310 --> 00:20:38,820
Each grade is a 25-point
range of light transmit,

421
00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:40,470
and so plus or minus four

422
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:44,880
is a relatively large
chunk of that entire grade.

423
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,560
So there's an issue there.

424
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,800
And then there are things that
can happen to the cuvette,

425
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,250
the little glass vial,
thumbprint, scratched,

426
00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:55,653
poorly filtered syrup, hot syrup,

427
00:20:57,450 --> 00:21:02,450
all kinds of things can lead
to getting an erroneous number.

428
00:21:03,390 --> 00:21:05,550
So just see it for what it is.

429
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:09,120
It's an inexpensive way of
measuring light transmittance

430
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:10,563
but it's not foolproof.

431
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:14,708
And then in terms of color comparator,

432
00:21:14,708 --> 00:21:16,980
there's also the Lovibond kit.

433
00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:21,510
This is robust in that it's
a permanent glass standard,

434
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:23,520
which doesn't change over time.

435
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,530
However, it's quite expensive.

436
00:21:25,530 --> 00:21:27,330
When you add the whole thing up,

437
00:21:27,330 --> 00:21:30,900
including the vial that you
need to use, it's over $300.

438
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:33,030
So it's very expensive.

439
00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:35,310
It's probably close to $400 now.

440
00:21:35,310 --> 00:21:38,190
And although it doesn't go old,

441
00:21:38,190 --> 00:21:40,710
it is a big investment

442
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:45,710
and not everyone can
justify that that expense.

443
00:21:46,620 --> 00:21:51,620
The last method or issue
that we grade is flavor.

444
00:21:53,460 --> 00:21:57,060
So the language in a grading regulations

445
00:21:57,060 --> 00:22:00,450
talk about flavors being
progressively stronger

446
00:22:00,450 --> 00:22:02,160
as you go darker in color.

447
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,860
Each state and province have
a slightly different wording,

448
00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:05,693
but in general,

449
00:22:05,693 --> 00:22:08,220
lighter syrup is gonna
have a delicate flavor,

450
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:10,740
darker syrup will get
progressively stronger

451
00:22:10,740 --> 00:22:14,703
and defects significant off
flavors are not acceptable.

452
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:21,603
And so for all our samples,
we followed the same protocol.

453
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:26,790
And just so you know, the
regulations are available.

454
00:22:26,790 --> 00:22:28,320
I guess I already mentioned that earlier,

455
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,443
but if you want to check them
out you can review them there.

456
00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:38,810
So we produced a variety of samples

457
00:22:38,910 --> 00:22:43,910
and we had 25 producers
able to provide golden,

458
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,210
and 28 producers were able
to sell us dark samples.

459
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,480
Of those, we ended up
with 116 usable samples.

460
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,480
And for golden and in dark, 129 reusable.

461
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,640
Just a little quick shot of
of how shipping was done.

462
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:09,570
The most common was UPS at 44%,

463
00:23:09,570 --> 00:23:13,620
next most common was
the US Postal Service,

464
00:23:13,620 --> 00:23:15,180
followed by FedEx,

465
00:23:15,180 --> 00:23:19,143
and then like just a couple of
percent with another method.

466
00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:21,903
Where these samples came from?

467
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,040
Almost half came from Vermont.

468
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,820
Next most common location, New York.

469
00:23:29,820 --> 00:23:31,260
And then you can see the breakdown.

470
00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:32,970
There was some from New Hampshire,

471
00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:37,470
Massachusetts, Maine, and so forth.

472
00:23:37,470 --> 00:23:38,553
That was for golden.

473
00:23:41,010 --> 00:23:42,330
And for the dark robust,

474
00:23:42,330 --> 00:23:45,005
again, half the samples came from Vermont

475
00:23:45,005 --> 00:23:47,940
and almost a quarter came from New York

476
00:23:47,940 --> 00:23:49,860
and the rest came from other states.

477
00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:53,500
The breakdown of state of
origin was slightly different

478
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:55,983
for darks than it was for goldens.

479
00:23:57,870 --> 00:23:59,520
Now we'll jump into the results.

480
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,660
So with clarity.

481
00:24:00,660 --> 00:24:03,270
Clarity was not a huge issue.

482
00:24:03,270 --> 00:24:07,140
We had only about 4% of
the samples in Golden

483
00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:09,780
were unacceptable for clarity.

484
00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:12,330
And this meant that something

485
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:15,210
like I talked about in the standards,

486
00:24:15,210 --> 00:24:17,340
something floating in the syrup,

487
00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:21,090
unacceptable levels of cloudiness,

488
00:24:21,090 --> 00:24:22,800
something that rose to the level

489
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,963
of failing to meet the standard.

490
00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:29,220
In dark, it was the same.

491
00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:32,100
About 5% failed to meet the clarity.

492
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:34,721
And I think that's a
great, that's good news,

493
00:24:34,721 --> 00:24:36,630
that it's not a huge issue.

494
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:40,410
This is syrup that was
packed in both plastic

495
00:24:40,410 --> 00:24:41,790
but also glass.

496
00:24:41,790 --> 00:24:45,540
And clarity, it shouldn't
matter what type of container

497
00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:46,660
it's being packed in

498
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,390
that the samples were
by and large acceptable

499
00:24:51,390 --> 00:24:52,623
in terms of clarity.

500
00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:57,570
Again, color,

501
00:24:57,570 --> 00:25:01,413
these are the instruments
we used, variety of cost.

502
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,183
And here are the results for color.

503
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:11,040
So when you just take the sample

504
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,870
at the moment that we graded them,

505
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:17,100
so remember this is several months,

506
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:20,040
let's see, it was close to five months

507
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,913
from when we purchased
them, six months actually,

508
00:25:25,260 --> 00:25:29,880
we had zero of those samples
graded out as golden,

509
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,780
and that would be at 75% or lighter

510
00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:36,480
in light transmittance.

511
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,340
80% of the samples were
graded as amber, 20% as dark.

512
00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:44,340
And that red bar represents the mean value

513
00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:47,943
of all the light transmittance
of all the samples.

514
00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:52,920
Now, I'll come back to these
color results at the end

515
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,780
when we're discussing the results,

516
00:25:54,780 --> 00:25:58,023
but I just want to go through them first.

517
00:26:00,270 --> 00:26:03,720
Now for dark, remember the range for dark

518
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,720
is between 25% and 50%
light transmittance.

519
00:26:08,790 --> 00:26:13,790
We found that 44% were
actually within that range,

520
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,400
and 56%, so more than half,

521
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,247
were actually darker than
the lower limit for color

522
00:26:20,247 --> 00:26:22,680
in dark robust syrup,

523
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,753
and were graded as very dark.

524
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,910
And interestingly enough, we actually had,

525
00:26:29,910 --> 00:26:32,190
at least according to the Hannah meter,

526
00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:35,850
four and a half percent had a
light transmittance of zero.

527
00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:39,360
So no light penetrated that syrup at all,

528
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:42,060
sort of the black hole of
maple syrup if you will.

529
00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:46,230
But there were certainly
more samples in the dark

530
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:48,453
that met the standard than in the golden.

531
00:26:51,870 --> 00:26:54,060
Now with density, like I said,

532
00:26:54,060 --> 00:26:58,890
we used a hydrometer and we
used digital refractometer.

533
00:26:58,890 --> 00:27:01,800
And just a quick note about
digital refractometers.

534
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,590
They are much more
appropriate device to use

535
00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:06,840
at room temperature with syrup,

536
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,380
even expensive digital refract
refractometer like this one

537
00:27:10,380 --> 00:27:12,269
that are temperature compensated,

538
00:27:12,269 --> 00:27:15,750
they really can't tolerate hot syrup.

539
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:18,120
Even if you let it cool
after it's been hot,

540
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,820
there can be issues with
that tiny little bit of syrup

541
00:27:22,890 --> 00:27:26,940
becoming more dense in that sample well.

542
00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:29,520
So really digital refractometer kilometers

543
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,390
have a place.

544
00:27:30,390 --> 00:27:33,450
They're good precision instruments,
they can be calibrated,

545
00:27:33,450 --> 00:27:36,690
but it's not in the
moment of making syrup.

546
00:27:36,690 --> 00:27:37,523
They really are...

547
00:27:37,523 --> 00:27:39,180
It's inappropriate for hot syrup.

548
00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:42,600
Hydrometer is a much more
appropriate tool in the moment

549
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,950
when you're producing
syrup in the sugar house.

550
00:27:47,790 --> 00:27:48,690
So density.

551
00:27:48,690 --> 00:27:52,830
For golden, we found that
there was a range in densities,

552
00:27:52,830 --> 00:27:57,830
everything as low as 64.9,
all the way up to 69.7.

553
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,343
This is degrees Brix.

554
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,948
38% of the samples in golden

555
00:28:02,948 --> 00:28:07,740
were below the range for
minimum density in Vermont,

556
00:28:07,740 --> 00:28:11,160
the Vermont standard of 66.9,

557
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,120
but only 3.4% were below the standard,

558
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,790
the USDA standard of 66 Brix,

559
00:28:17,790 --> 00:28:19,560
and that's important when we think about

560
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,573
where some of these samples came from.

561
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,130
And the other interesting thing to note

562
00:28:26,130 --> 00:28:30,600
is that of the samples that
were below that 66 Brix,

563
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,580
43% were from Vermont.

564
00:28:32,580 --> 00:28:37,230
So we can't just say it was producers

565
00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:38,550
from outside the state of Vermont

566
00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:40,590
not knowing what that
minimum standard was.

567
00:28:40,590 --> 00:28:43,290
A good chunk of those were
actually Vermont producers.

568
00:28:44,850 --> 00:28:47,880
Interestingly, there's very
few who above the range.

569
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,110
Only three,

570
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:51,870
just under three and a
half percent of the samples

571
00:28:51,870 --> 00:28:56,493
exceeded the legal limit,
which is 68.9% Brix.

572
00:29:00,246 --> 00:29:05,010
Now for dark, similar, it
was a fairly wide range.

573
00:29:05,010 --> 00:29:07,770
Everything is low as 63.3 Brix

574
00:29:07,770 --> 00:29:11,820
and all the way up to 71 Brix.

575
00:29:11,820 --> 00:29:12,990
Just as a reminder,

576
00:29:12,990 --> 00:29:16,006
if you have syrup that's
below legal density,

577
00:29:16,006 --> 00:29:19,500
it's more at risk for
mold and fermentation

578
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,803
and becoming off flavored in that way.

579
00:29:23,850 --> 00:29:26,310
And the higher you get
above the legal standard,

580
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:28,590
the more likely are to have

581
00:29:28,590 --> 00:29:31,980
what we would call a
super saturated solution

582
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:35,040
that would result in hard crystals forming

583
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,080
in the bottom of that container

584
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,020
that would really be
unusable to the consumer.

585
00:29:40,020 --> 00:29:44,280
So you wanna try to hit
that two degree Brix range,

586
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,463
which is the legal range
for pure maple syrup.

587
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,110
For dark, eight and a half
percent of the samples

588
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:57,090
were below the range for Vermont,

589
00:29:57,090 --> 00:29:59,447
but only five and a half percent

590
00:29:59,447 --> 00:30:04,447
were below for the 66 Brix standard.

591
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:10,773
And of the samples that were below the 66,

592
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:13,500
91% were from Vermont.

593
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:15,720
So clearly it's not producers

594
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,960
from out of the state of Vermont

595
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,423
not understanding the Vermont regulations.

596
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:23,970
And similar to golden,

597
00:30:23,970 --> 00:30:26,050
we had a few percent or above the range

598
00:30:26,910 --> 00:30:30,063
that were just a little bit too dense.

599
00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:36,390
Now for flavor, we found some differences.

600
00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:41,250
We found that not unlike
the results for clarity,

601
00:30:41,250 --> 00:30:44,860
only about 5% of the golden samples

602
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,970
failed to meet the flavor standard.

603
00:30:47,970 --> 00:30:51,210
So 5% rejected for some sort of flavor.

604
00:30:51,210 --> 00:30:52,043
There was a mix.

605
00:30:52,043 --> 00:30:55,380
It wasn't any particular strong
trend one way or the other.

606
00:30:55,380 --> 00:30:57,210
There was a little bit of buddy,

607
00:30:57,210 --> 00:31:00,153
little bit of metabolism,
little bit of sour,

608
00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:04,320
so no significant trends there.

609
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,103
And that's encouraging
that 95% of the samples

610
00:31:07,103 --> 00:31:09,300
were acceptable.

611
00:31:09,300 --> 00:31:12,630
A higher percentage of
the dark robust samples

612
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:14,193
were rejected for flavor.

613
00:31:15,628 --> 00:31:20,245
No clear reason as to why
other than darker syrup

614
00:31:20,245 --> 00:31:22,200
has more flavor in general,

615
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,620
and occasionally producers
may not pick up on the fact

616
00:31:25,620 --> 00:31:29,504
that some of that more flavor,

617
00:31:29,504 --> 00:31:31,860
which is in those samples,

618
00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:34,680
is actually a defect and
not just strong flavor,

619
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,042
it's actually something
that would be identified

620
00:31:38,042 --> 00:31:41,228
as an off flavor and need to be not sold

621
00:31:41,228 --> 00:31:42,993
in a retail container.

622
00:31:46,860 --> 00:31:48,150
So like I said,

623
00:31:48,150 --> 00:31:50,910
the defects included
buddy, ferment, metabolism.

624
00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:54,000
There were, I believe, a
few sours in there as well,

625
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,670
but no strong trends one way or the other

626
00:31:56,670 --> 00:32:01,593
as far as which flavor was most common.

627
00:32:04,770 --> 00:32:06,390
Looking at container type,

628
00:32:06,390 --> 00:32:11,340
we found that plastic was
by far the most popular.

629
00:32:11,340 --> 00:32:13,140
And this is syrup that is shipped,

630
00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:15,503
so you might maybe make an argument

631
00:32:15,503 --> 00:32:17,370
that we would see more plastic

632
00:32:17,370 --> 00:32:18,490
just because we're shipping the syrup,

633
00:32:18,490 --> 00:32:21,750
we're not picking it up in
a retail brick and mortar.

634
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:24,270
Location of the plastics,

635
00:32:24,270 --> 00:32:25,980
the most common was Sugarhill,

636
00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:27,540
followed by Bacon.

637
00:32:27,540 --> 00:32:31,050
There was, in golden, 19% glass,

638
00:32:31,050 --> 00:32:34,560
whereas 15% for dark packed in glass.

639
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,051
But in general, about two
thirds were packed in Sugarhill

640
00:32:39,051 --> 00:32:44,051
with another 15 to almost 20% of...

641
00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:47,860
No, sorry, 10 to 17% more

642
00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:52,140
in another type of plastic container.

643
00:32:52,140 --> 00:32:56,700
So essentially three quarters
of the samples we received

644
00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:58,320
were in plastic,

645
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,240
and that's not necessarily something

646
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,938
that the consumer is prompted.

647
00:33:03,938 --> 00:33:07,290
We didn't select for a
specific container type,

648
00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:10,530
we just wanted the syrup
in a certain volume

649
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:12,123
and we get what we get.

650
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:17,490
As far as batch codes,

651
00:33:17,490 --> 00:33:19,128
just wanted to remind folks,

652
00:33:19,128 --> 00:33:21,990
we did pay attention to badge codes.

653
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:26,730
It was certainly an issue
on some of those containers.

654
00:33:26,730 --> 00:33:29,160
Regardless of where the
syrup is coming from,

655
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,510
if you're selling it in to Vermont,

656
00:33:30,510 --> 00:33:34,440
you need to have that batch code.

657
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,730
It doesn't have to be anything fancy,

658
00:33:35,730 --> 00:33:37,530
it doesn't have to be
an automated labeler.

659
00:33:37,530 --> 00:33:40,020
It can be as simple as a indelible marker

660
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:41,670
on the bottom of the container

661
00:33:41,670 --> 00:33:45,480
with a code that you
specifically come up with.

662
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,330
And it really makes good sense
in a lot of different ways.

663
00:33:48,330 --> 00:33:49,590
From a business standpoint,

664
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:51,540
you can track your inventory

665
00:33:51,540 --> 00:33:53,880
if there's a problem in
the retail marketplace

666
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,070
after it leaves your location,

667
00:33:56,070 --> 00:34:00,300
you can easily identify what
day that syrup was produced,

668
00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:04,260
and it has implications in terms
of food safety and quality.

669
00:34:04,260 --> 00:34:07,920
It's really important
to maintain good records

670
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,500
on when the syrup was made,

671
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:12,510
any issues that you maybe identified,

672
00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:14,070
and then where that syrup goes

673
00:34:14,070 --> 00:34:16,323
once it leaves your operation.

674
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,240
Of course if you don't have a batch code

675
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:23,460
and can't isolate a certain batch of syrup

676
00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:28,380
and there is an issue,
at least in Vermont,

677
00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:32,190
the state of Vermont can
impound all your syrup

678
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:34,200
until the issue is resolved.

679
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,120
So it would help immensely
in terms of your business

680
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,540
if you can isolate just the batch of syrup

681
00:34:42,540 --> 00:34:43,683
that has the defect.

682
00:34:47,070 --> 00:34:50,250
When we found that, on the goldens,

683
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:52,260
about three quarters had a batch code

684
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:55,803
and just over a quarter
did not have a batch code.

685
00:34:56,820 --> 00:34:58,500
Interestingly, it was slightly different

686
00:34:58,500 --> 00:35:01,110
for dark robust syrup.

687
00:35:01,110 --> 00:35:05,220
A little bit more were
missing the batch code,

688
00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:07,623
but they were sort of in the range.

689
00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:13,920
So overall the issues we found.

690
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,410
Number one issue was certainly color.

691
00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:18,570
We did see issues with density.

692
00:35:18,570 --> 00:35:21,110
And we're gonna talk a little
bit about that density data

693
00:35:21,110 --> 00:35:22,230
in just a second here,

694
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:24,460
but just wanna make sure folks recognize

695
00:35:24,460 --> 00:35:28,958
that the importance of these regulations,

696
00:35:28,958 --> 00:35:32,460
they're on paper to protect the consumer,

697
00:35:32,460 --> 00:35:34,920
their investment in a
high quality product,

698
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,650
it also helps the maple
industry making sure

699
00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:42,650
that the name maple syrup
really stands for quality.

700
00:35:43,140 --> 00:35:45,660
And the reason these regulations exist,

701
00:35:45,660 --> 00:35:47,700
and going back historically,

702
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:50,739
is that there was a lot of fraud.

703
00:35:50,739 --> 00:35:53,820
Early 1900s, there was a lot of,

704
00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:55,050
quote, unquote, "maple syrup"

705
00:35:55,050 --> 00:36:00,050
produced that was either
cut with cheap sweeteners

706
00:36:00,090 --> 00:36:02,880
like glucose or some other corn syrup,

707
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,960
or had no maple whatsoever
but was labeled as pure maple.

708
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,690
And so the maple industry
a hundred years ago

709
00:36:09,690 --> 00:36:14,550
really responded forcefully
to institute these regulations

710
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:16,983
because you are asking
consumers to pay a high price

711
00:36:16,983 --> 00:36:19,350
compared to other sweeteners.

712
00:36:19,350 --> 00:36:21,090
So these regulations have a place,

713
00:36:21,090 --> 00:36:23,250
they still are relevant,

714
00:36:23,250 --> 00:36:27,573
and they really do help stand
the maple industry apart.

715
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:32,103
So in terms of color,

716
00:36:33,390 --> 00:36:36,510
Missy's question about about darkening,

717
00:36:36,510 --> 00:36:39,150
there are some research done
by Tim Perkins and others

718
00:36:39,150 --> 00:36:41,310
at the Proctor Maple Research Center,

719
00:36:41,310 --> 00:36:44,130
and they found when you had syrup

720
00:36:44,130 --> 00:36:48,240
packaged in coated and
uncoated plastic jugs,

721
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,073
the rate of darkening

722
00:36:49,073 --> 00:36:53,100
was about two and a half
percent per month in uncoated.

723
00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:54,090
Actually, I misspoke it.

724
00:36:54,090 --> 00:36:58,260
It's less than half of that
rate in coated containers.

725
00:36:58,260 --> 00:37:03,260
So just less than 1% per
month in coated containers.

726
00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:06,960
So when you calculate
back the amount of time

727
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,200
from when we did these
assessments of color

728
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,000
to when we received them

729
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,070
and even earlier to presumably

730
00:37:14,070 --> 00:37:15,810
when they might have been canned,

731
00:37:15,810 --> 00:37:18,720
we, of course, have no idea
when they were bottled up,

732
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:21,330
but that could explain
some of that darkening.

733
00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:24,390
And I did a little quick math

734
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:26,390
and I'll show you that in just a second.

735
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,757
So here's results again.

736
00:37:29,757 --> 00:37:31,740
Across the top, you have the goldens,

737
00:37:31,740 --> 00:37:34,290
across the bottom, you have the darks.

738
00:37:34,290 --> 00:37:36,933
Let's look at the color data on the left.

739
00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:40,097
So like I said, none of the samples

740
00:37:40,097 --> 00:37:44,310
when we measured them
in March and April 2021

741
00:37:44,310 --> 00:37:47,460
met that minimum standard for color.

742
00:37:47,460 --> 00:37:50,340
However, if you calculated back

743
00:37:50,340 --> 00:37:54,780
using that rate of darkening
from Tim Perkin's work,

744
00:37:54,780 --> 00:37:58,380
we would find that 50%
actually would be in grade

745
00:37:58,380 --> 00:38:00,540
and 50% would be out a grade,

746
00:38:00,540 --> 00:38:03,389
and that's based on when
we received the samples

747
00:38:03,389 --> 00:38:05,100
in October, November,

748
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:08,670
not when some theoretical date
in which they were produced,

749
00:38:08,670 --> 00:38:11,820
but actually when we took
possession of those samples.

750
00:38:11,820 --> 00:38:13,230
So that's better than...

751
00:38:13,230 --> 00:38:15,120
50% is better than zero,

752
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,310
but it does highlight the fact

753
00:38:17,310 --> 00:38:19,380
that some consumers will purchase it,

754
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:21,480
and then not consume it right away.

755
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,130
So it is something to think about.

756
00:38:23,130 --> 00:38:28,130
And some retailers won't revolve
their stock very quickly.

757
00:38:31,470 --> 00:38:34,080
So if you're selling
directly to a retailer,

758
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,670
you really need to make them aware

759
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:36,970
of the issue of darkening.

760
00:38:39,090 --> 00:38:42,180
It was even better I would
say, in terms of the dark.

761
00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:43,934
So if we backcalculated

762
00:38:43,934 --> 00:38:48,390
based on that pretty
linear rate of darkening

763
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:51,453
identified by Tim Perkins in that work,

764
00:38:52,530 --> 00:38:54,809
virtually, all the very dark strong

765
00:38:54,809 --> 00:38:57,953
would be in grade and
only 5% out of grade.

766
00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:02,043
As far as density, the golden,

767
00:39:02,945 --> 00:39:06,180
just over 41% were out of the range,

768
00:39:06,180 --> 00:39:10,650
but only about 6.8% are out
of that international range.

769
00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:13,053
The minimum being 66 Brix.

770
00:39:15,090 --> 00:39:20,090
And similar, only 22% were
out of Vermont range for dark,

771
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,793
so it was more compliance there,

772
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:29,430
and just under 10% would be
below or outside the range,

773
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:32,793
not just below, it could be
above in the international.

774
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:38,610
So best practices moving forward.

775
00:39:38,610 --> 00:39:40,740
Understand that rate of darkening,

776
00:39:40,740 --> 00:39:41,760
it's a real thing,

777
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,190
it's fairly linear relationship,

778
00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:46,860
and you can count on that happening

779
00:39:46,860 --> 00:39:49,320
once you put it in that retail container.

780
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,530
A lot of that darkening is
happening through oxidation,

781
00:39:52,530 --> 00:39:55,380
so fill height is important.

782
00:39:55,380 --> 00:39:56,910
We know from other work

783
00:39:56,910 --> 00:40:00,000
that if you leave a huge
amount of head space

784
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:00,833
in your container,

785
00:40:00,833 --> 00:40:05,780
even if it meets the stated
weight or volume, I should say,

786
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,570
of the syrup in that container,

787
00:40:09,570 --> 00:40:11,400
that extra oxygen and head space

788
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,620
can result in some darkening.

789
00:40:13,620 --> 00:40:17,160
So one possible solution to
that is to fill it right up,

790
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,640
and then account for that
extra weight in your pricing

791
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,360
so that you're not giving
away a ton of syrup

792
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,268
and you are also not
having that added effect

793
00:40:28,268 --> 00:40:30,444
of extra oxygen in the head space

794
00:40:30,444 --> 00:40:33,030
that can lead to darkening.

795
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:34,920
Understand how instruments work,

796
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,120
understand their accuracy,

797
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,400
and also understand their limitations.

798
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,250
Understand that just because an instrument

799
00:40:41,250 --> 00:40:42,780
gives you a digital reading,

800
00:40:42,780 --> 00:40:44,810
it doesn't necessarily...

801
00:40:46,140 --> 00:40:47,673
It isn't free of error.

802
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:52,380
Understand that not
everyone is highly trained

803
00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:53,970
in terms of grading.

804
00:40:53,970 --> 00:40:56,280
Flavor can be difficult.

805
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,296
Make sure you have multiple
people tasting samples.

806
00:41:00,296 --> 00:41:01,803
And if you have an issue,

807
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:04,560
get a second opinion or a third opinion

808
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,160
and make sure that you're
not putting substandard syrup

809
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,333
in the marketplace.

810
00:41:13,770 --> 00:41:15,690
And that pretty much wraps up what I have.

811
00:41:15,690 --> 00:41:19,800
I'm excited to hear the
questions if Mark has some.

812
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,643
I'm gonna take off the slide here.

813
00:41:24,540 --> 00:41:26,940
You did a nice job explaining
the different tests

814
00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:30,510
we use for color,

815
00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:33,570
and then the more specific you showed

816
00:41:33,570 --> 00:41:36,270
were all based on the
Hannah light transmittance,

817
00:41:36,270 --> 00:41:39,270
and you discussed the error factor

818
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:41,100
that's built in that, plus or minus.

819
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:42,270
And can you just explain,

820
00:41:42,270 --> 00:41:43,670
I believe that we sort of...

821
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:45,900
I believe we factored that in.

822
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:48,300
I just wanna get the
explanation right to people

823
00:41:49,410 --> 00:41:51,840
how we factored in that
plus or minus four.

824
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,780
I think we gave syrup
the benefit of the doubt,

825
00:41:54,780 --> 00:41:55,980
let's say, right?

826
00:41:55,980 --> 00:41:57,630
We didn't...

827
00:41:57,630 --> 00:41:58,710
We sort of...

828
00:41:58,710 --> 00:42:00,510
I can't explain if we
went up or down with it.

829
00:42:00,510 --> 00:42:04,075
If it was within 4% of the minimum,

830
00:42:04,075 --> 00:42:06,494
then it was counted as acceptable.

831
00:42:06,494 --> 00:42:08,190
-Acceptable, great.
-Yup.

832
00:42:08,190 --> 00:42:11,430
And then the other thing that
I should have a slide for,

833
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:14,056
but we saw really good agreement

834
00:42:14,056 --> 00:42:19,056
across those three
grading methods for color.

835
00:42:19,980 --> 00:42:22,860
We saw good agreement
between the Hannah meter,

836
00:42:22,860 --> 00:42:27,600
the temporary grade kit, and the Lovibond,

837
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,510
which was encouraging because
one of them is quantitative

838
00:42:30,510 --> 00:42:32,580
and the other is essentially a comparator.

839
00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:34,620
The other two are comparators.

840
00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:36,690
So we didn't see massive differences

841
00:42:36,690 --> 00:42:39,630
in what the Hannah was grading out at

842
00:42:39,630 --> 00:42:43,053
compared to the temporary
kit, is what I'm saying.

843
00:42:47,835 --> 00:42:50,220
All right, everyone, I
believe that I've clicked it

844
00:42:50,220 --> 00:42:51,900
so you can enable your mic.

845
00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:53,070
You just have to do that manually,

846
00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:54,970
but feel free to use the chat as well.

847
00:42:56,580 --> 00:42:57,997
So I see Nick is asking,

848
00:42:57,997 --> 00:43:01,170
"Was there a difference in
grading when sliced by state?"

849
00:43:01,170 --> 00:43:02,970
So that's one of the secondary analysis

850
00:43:02,970 --> 00:43:05,940
we haven't done, but
it's a great question.

851
00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:07,540
It would be interesting to note.

852
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,320
Clearly, with over half the
samples coming from Vermont,

853
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,530
they're contributing quite a
bit to the overall averages

854
00:43:16,530 --> 00:43:18,773
and they weren't perfect by any means

855
00:43:18,773 --> 00:43:20,730
in terms of meeting the standards.

856
00:43:20,730 --> 00:43:22,773
So good question.

857
00:43:25,185 --> 00:43:28,560
We'll definitely include
that in in subsequent work

858
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,910
or stuff that we're gonna write
up as a result of this work.

859
00:43:32,910 --> 00:43:37,890
[Meg] Do you recommend canning
or bottling up whole barrel

860
00:43:37,890 --> 00:43:41,620
in one go to prevent mold from developing

861
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:45,840
sort of once there's air in the barrel?

862
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:46,673
Oh, yeah.

863
00:43:46,673 --> 00:43:47,506
Hey, Meg.

864
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,180
I think it's entirely possible

865
00:43:52,180 --> 00:43:55,980
that once you open that hot pack barrel,

866
00:43:55,980 --> 00:43:57,690
it's now no longer hot packed.

867
00:43:57,690 --> 00:44:00,690
And that we know that mold can grow

868
00:44:00,690 --> 00:44:02,970
on correct density syrup,

869
00:44:02,970 --> 00:44:07,970
and that you're just
probably asking for an issue

870
00:44:08,580 --> 00:44:09,993
by leaving it partial.

871
00:44:10,878 --> 00:44:12,570
That does present a problem

872
00:44:12,570 --> 00:44:16,260
as far as handling your inventory, right?

873
00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:18,870
Maybe you don't have
a whole barrel's worth

874
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:21,450
of retail containers spoken for.

875
00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:26,160
You have to anticipate how
quickly that's gonna move,

876
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,160
because, especially in plastic,
once you put it in plastic,

877
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,400
we know it's darkening from the start.

878
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,452
But, yeah, I would agree

879
00:44:33,452 --> 00:44:38,452
that leaving a partial barrel
that's open is not ideal.

880
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,330
If you can keep it cool,
that's gonna help some,

881
00:44:42,330 --> 00:44:44,403
but it's not gonna prevent everything.

882
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:47,160
[Nick] Yeah, I'm curious more

883
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,243
about the findings on cold
versus room temp storage.

884
00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:57,420
Are there general best practices
on storage over that time

885
00:44:57,420 --> 00:45:00,903
and are you finding data that
might challenge those myths?

886
00:45:04,148 --> 00:45:05,160
I mean, I think in general,

887
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,853
it's ideal to keep
surface cool as possible.

888
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,720
But it was interesting that
we didn't see differences

889
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:17,720
between keeping it at just above freezing

890
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,850
versus a room temperature.

891
00:45:20,850 --> 00:45:23,040
I think the issue, it's
probably not linear.

892
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,700
They probably start to get
towards a temperature threshold,

893
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:28,410
and then you start seeing effects.

894
00:45:28,410 --> 00:45:32,343
So maybe higher than the room
temperature samples we saw.

895
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:37,530
But as far as challenging
best practice recommendations,

896
00:45:37,530 --> 00:45:39,600
it wasn't really the
nature of this project

897
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:40,770
to answer that question,

898
00:45:40,770 --> 00:45:45,770
so I wouldn't really propose
a big change in practice

899
00:45:46,311 --> 00:45:48,060
as a result of this.

900
00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:50,760
I just thought it was an
interesting thing to include.

901
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,570
And personally, I think I
would've expected to see

902
00:45:54,570 --> 00:45:57,453
a little bit more difference than we did.

903
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:59,303
[Nick] Makes sense.

904
00:45:59,303 --> 00:46:00,136
Thanks.

905
00:46:01,650 --> 00:46:02,970
Other questions or...

906
00:46:02,970 --> 00:46:03,810
Oh, yeah, Meg.

907
00:46:03,810 --> 00:46:06,780
[Meg] What are some of the grading schools

908
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:09,540
that sugar makers could go to?

909
00:46:09,540 --> 00:46:10,983
I think Maine has one.

910
00:46:11,857 --> 00:46:13,980
That's a great segue.

911
00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:16,430
So I've been working with...

912
00:46:17,820 --> 00:46:20,700
Just to start off, the
Maple Syrup Grading School

913
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:23,790
was a program started by Henry Marcus

914
00:46:23,790 --> 00:46:26,190
with the State of Vermont Agency of Ag,

915
00:46:26,190 --> 00:46:27,810
Kathy Hopkins with UMaine,

916
00:46:27,810 --> 00:46:31,020
and Sumner Dole with UNH Extension.

917
00:46:31,020 --> 00:46:33,123
And it's about 20 years
now, they've been doing it.

918
00:46:33,123 --> 00:46:35,463
It's a two-day intensive training.

919
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:37,620
And it's great program.

920
00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:39,270
I don't know if anyone's on the call

921
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:40,920
who participated in that,

922
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,630
but it's a really great training,

923
00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:47,630
but it does take quite a bit
to hold one of those events.

924
00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:51,480
And what we found is that
there's a lot of demand

925
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,251
for training in syrup quality.

926
00:46:54,251 --> 00:46:56,460
And so Jason Lilley who took over

927
00:46:56,460 --> 00:46:57,870
for Kathy Hopkins at UMaine

928
00:46:57,870 --> 00:47:00,360
and I have been working with the IMSI,

929
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,640
International Maple Syrup Institute,

930
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,030
to continue that offering,
that two-day training,

931
00:47:06,030 --> 00:47:11,030
but also try to dramatically
increase access to training.

932
00:47:11,310 --> 00:47:13,530
That's not the same two-day training,

933
00:47:13,530 --> 00:47:15,840
but high quality and more accessible.

934
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,950
So the idea is that there'll
be a kit of samples,

935
00:47:19,950 --> 00:47:23,850
both loaners for a county organization

936
00:47:23,850 --> 00:47:27,540
or some group of individuals
who wanna host a training,

937
00:47:27,540 --> 00:47:31,590
the samples will go out
to those individuals,

938
00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:34,590
and the trainers, Jason and myself

939
00:47:34,590 --> 00:47:37,170
and perhaps some other content folks,

940
00:47:37,170 --> 00:47:39,390
will come in remotely.

941
00:47:39,390 --> 00:47:41,911
And so it'll have a
lot of the same aspects

942
00:47:41,911 --> 00:47:44,730
of the grading school hands on,

943
00:47:44,730 --> 00:47:47,829
but it will allow us
to offer this training

944
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:52,020
much more frequently than
we can with the in person.

945
00:47:52,020 --> 00:47:54,570
If you're hungry for doing
the two-day training,

946
00:47:54,570 --> 00:47:58,080
you can go to La Crosse,
Wisconsin in October.

947
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,210
There'll be a two-day
maple grading school,

948
00:48:00,210 --> 00:48:02,160
the full thing there.

949
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,671
Jason has offered a
one-day partial training

950
00:48:04,671 --> 00:48:06,210
in Maine as well.

951
00:48:06,210 --> 00:48:10,890
And we also offer some
training at maple conferences,

952
00:48:10,890 --> 00:48:13,800
and we're gonna be doing
one this December as well.

953
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,860
But it won't be the full two-day training

954
00:48:16,860 --> 00:48:20,253
that folks who have attended
in the past are used to.

955
00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:23,010
It's challenging, right?

956
00:48:23,010 --> 00:48:24,600
You want to have the hands on,

957
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,700
you want to have the
communication between individuals

958
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:30,513
to work through some of these practices,

959
00:48:31,380 --> 00:48:33,847
but it's challenging for folks to travel

960
00:48:33,847 --> 00:48:37,440
and set these trainings
up all over the place.

961
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,540
So we're trying to split the difference

962
00:48:39,540 --> 00:48:41,070
and do kind of a hybrid.

963
00:48:41,070 --> 00:48:44,340
And look for more information coming out

964
00:48:44,340 --> 00:48:46,260
about when those will be available.

965
00:48:46,260 --> 00:48:49,140
We're hoping it'll be a good solution.

966
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:51,510
I will say, just in terms of grading,

967
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:54,060
we do have some stuff on
the Maple Extension page.

968
00:48:54,060 --> 00:48:55,380
We've got four videos.

969
00:48:55,380 --> 00:48:57,593
One that goes over the
basics of grading color,

970
00:48:57,593 --> 00:48:59,910
clarity, flavor, and density.

971
00:48:59,910 --> 00:49:03,300
They're about six to ten minutes long.

972
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:04,530
You can check those out.

973
00:49:04,530 --> 00:49:06,150
They've had pretty good feedback.

974
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:08,910
I also have some cards that,

975
00:49:08,910 --> 00:49:11,398
one for each, color,
clarity, flavor and density,

976
00:49:11,398 --> 00:49:12,830
which are...

977
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,090
You can't diagnose every issue,

978
00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:16,740
but on one side of the card,

979
00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:18,930
it talks about what the standards are

980
00:49:18,930 --> 00:49:21,620
for the color, clarity,
flavor and density.

981
00:49:21,620 --> 00:49:22,770
On the other side of the card,

982
00:49:22,770 --> 00:49:25,080
it talks about what
the most common reasons

983
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,210
syrup doesn't meet that standard.

984
00:49:27,210 --> 00:49:29,393
So, it could be anything

985
00:49:29,393 --> 00:49:31,620
from not measuring the
temperature of the syrup

986
00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:35,760
when you use a hydrometer
or not hot-packing,

987
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:36,783
that sort of thing.

988
00:49:37,740 --> 00:49:39,209
Even those little bits of information

989
00:49:39,209 --> 00:49:42,187
can really help remind folks

990
00:49:42,187 --> 00:49:46,530
about how to make sure their
syrup meets the standard.

991
00:49:46,530 --> 00:49:48,510
And then the contest
that I've been judging,

992
00:49:48,510 --> 00:49:49,877
I've been providing those cards

993
00:49:49,877 --> 00:49:53,340
to the folks who were
rejected from the contest.

994
00:49:53,340 --> 00:49:55,890
We have the the card to go along with it

995
00:49:55,890 --> 00:49:58,540
to hopefully give them a
little bit more information.

996
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,368
And I'll also say that
there's some longer format.

997
00:50:04,368 --> 00:50:06,750
Presentations talking about...

998
00:50:06,750 --> 00:50:09,311
There's at least one
on maple syrup flavor,

999
00:50:09,311 --> 00:50:12,243
also on the UVM Extension Maple page.

1000
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,427
More questions?

1001
00:50:18,427 --> 00:50:19,770
"Where are those cards available?"

1002
00:50:19,770 --> 00:50:22,671
How about I just go
right now to the website

1003
00:50:22,671 --> 00:50:27,243
and I will add the address to the chat.

1004
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,020
Any comments or questions

1005
00:50:34,020 --> 00:50:36,633
while I'm searching the page?

1006
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:38,333
This is Mark.

1007
00:50:38,333 --> 00:50:40,500
I'll throw a question in for you Mark,

1008
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:43,100
and for any of the participants
to chime in as well.

1009
00:50:44,220 --> 00:50:46,260
I got to work with you on this project

1010
00:50:46,260 --> 00:50:48,153
and did a lot of learning myself.

1011
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:50,790
From your experience,

1012
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:54,540
are there producers that are
actually using the Hannah meter

1013
00:50:54,540 --> 00:50:56,643
or the Lovibond kit,

1014
00:50:58,170 --> 00:50:59,580
and how would that compare to people

1015
00:50:59,580 --> 00:51:02,760
that are potentially
almost exclusively using

1016
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:03,930
the temp grading kits?

1017
00:51:03,930 --> 00:51:05,610
So that's a question for you Mark,

1018
00:51:05,610 --> 00:51:07,680
and then also to the participants.

1019
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:08,760
Is anyone using anything

1020
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:13,470
other than a temporary grading
kit for color evaluation?

1021
00:51:13,470 --> 00:51:15,450
So we haven't really taken a survey,

1022
00:51:15,450 --> 00:51:18,870
like an actual survey that we would say

1023
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:20,400
could feel confident in the numbers,

1024
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,500
but, anecdotally I would say,

1025
00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:24,870
vast majority use a temporary kit.

1026
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:26,280
The Hannah meter is getting popular

1027
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,043
because it is only like 60, 65 bucks.

1028
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:33,180
I would say very few
people use the Lovibond,

1029
00:51:33,180 --> 00:51:35,190
but those that do like them

1030
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:36,930
for the reasons that I already mentioned.

1031
00:51:36,930 --> 00:51:37,803
It's permanent.

1032
00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:42,480
Visually, it's easier
to work with, I think.

1033
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,330
I think it has a better form function.

1034
00:51:46,330 --> 00:51:49,260
I think it is a better device,

1035
00:51:49,260 --> 00:51:53,133
but it is a big outlay of cash to start.

1036
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:54,833
No, that's great.

1037
00:51:54,833 --> 00:51:59,600
Dan and Dave both using the
Hannah and the Lovibond.

1038
00:52:01,767 --> 00:52:04,170
And for me as a business person,

1039
00:52:04,170 --> 00:52:05,940
learning the standards from Mark,

1040
00:52:05,940 --> 00:52:07,500
when I see the $300 to the Lovibond

1041
00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:08,580
and he says it's really expensive,

1042
00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:10,830
I'm thinking, that's
like the cheapest thing

1043
00:52:10,830 --> 00:52:11,850
in the sugar house for people

1044
00:52:11,850 --> 00:52:13,560
compared to all the other investments.

1045
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,210
So it's an interesting
sort of relativeness

1046
00:52:15,210 --> 00:52:18,060
of what investment level people are at.

1047
00:52:18,060 --> 00:52:18,893
But that's cool

1048
00:52:18,893 --> 00:52:20,130
that we've got a couple
people on here tonight

1049
00:52:20,130 --> 00:52:20,963
with a small group

1050
00:52:20,963 --> 00:52:24,060
that are using the
alternative color tests.

1051
00:52:24,060 --> 00:52:26,360
Alternative is not the
right word, additional.

1052
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,690
So I just put in the link
to the grade cards directly,

1053
00:52:30,690 --> 00:52:33,960
but also the page that
has the grading videos.

1054
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,490
And you should know that the grade cards

1055
00:52:35,490 --> 00:52:37,170
have a QR code you can scan.

1056
00:52:37,170 --> 00:52:40,323
It goes right to those
same grading videos.

1057
00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:43,253
Interesting.

1058
00:52:43,253 --> 00:52:44,437
Meg's got a comment there.

1059
00:52:44,437 --> 00:52:46,020
"We've used the Hannah and the Lovibond,

1060
00:52:46,020 --> 00:52:47,730
but I had some issues with the grades

1061
00:52:47,730 --> 00:52:49,617
being completely different."

1062
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:53,190
-Yeah.
-Meg, any clarification?

1063
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:55,950
Is that between the
Hannah and the Lovibond

1064
00:52:55,950 --> 00:52:58,893
or between one of those and the temp kit?

1065
00:53:00,450 --> 00:53:02,220
[Meg] We haven't used the temp kit,

1066
00:53:02,220 --> 00:53:04,323
although I'm gonna get one this year.

1067
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,880
We've been using the Lovibond forever

1068
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,343
and I just got a Hannah,

1069
00:53:13,590 --> 00:53:14,940
I don't know, just because I thought

1070
00:53:14,940 --> 00:53:16,830
it would be more accurate.

1071
00:53:16,830 --> 00:53:21,830
And then they were both like
completely off at whole grade.

1072
00:53:22,170 --> 00:53:27,030
And then we ended up
grading with the Lovibond,

1073
00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:30,180
but we sent some syrup off
to a contest somewhere.

1074
00:53:30,180 --> 00:53:34,382
And I think some of it
was graded by color,

1075
00:53:34,382 --> 00:53:36,870
and it was rejected by color.

1076
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:39,963
So we were assuming our Lovibond was off.

1077
00:53:42,210 --> 00:53:47,210
And I think we got it since
the grades were changed,

1078
00:53:47,490 --> 00:53:51,240
so it should be correct,
from what I'm hearing,

1079
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:55,620
but maybe we need another color wheel.

1080
00:53:55,620 --> 00:53:56,660
Yeah, I mean, you would know...

1081
00:53:56,660 --> 00:53:59,508
If it says golden, amber
and dark on the wheel,

1082
00:53:59,508 --> 00:54:02,040
then that would be the
most up to date standards.

1083
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,920
When they were first coming
out with those wheels,

1084
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:09,450
there was an issue I think with
the golden like glass chip,

1085
00:54:09,450 --> 00:54:10,830
but that was so early.

1086
00:54:10,830 --> 00:54:12,964
I don't even know if they
made it in the marketplace.

1087
00:54:12,964 --> 00:54:16,143
I know they sent some to
us at Proctor to check.

1088
00:54:18,690 --> 00:54:19,523
Boy.

1089
00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:23,450
Again, there's so many things...

1090
00:54:24,420 --> 00:54:26,550
The Hannah meter gives you
a precise reading, right?

1091
00:54:26,550 --> 00:54:30,507
But air bubbles and,
you know, it can be...

1092
00:54:30,507 --> 00:54:34,650
There are several things that
can throw that number off.

1093
00:54:34,650 --> 00:54:36,480
I guess if I had to go with one,

1094
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,070
I would probably go with a Lovibond

1095
00:54:38,070 --> 00:54:40,803
because it does represent
the minimum of each grade.

1096
00:54:42,540 --> 00:54:45,207
But it's interesting that
you had used the Lovibond

1097
00:54:45,207 --> 00:54:46,713
and it got rejected.

1098
00:54:48,870 --> 00:54:50,550
-Did you get a number back?
-When we are testing...

1099
00:54:50,550 --> 00:54:51,383
Oh, yeah.

1100
00:54:51,383 --> 00:54:52,730
-Go ahead.
-No we didn't.

1101
00:54:52,730 --> 00:54:53,563
We didn't.

1102
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:56,913
When you're testing with the Hannah,

1103
00:54:57,750 --> 00:55:01,710
is it better for it to
be hot syrup or cold?

1104
00:55:01,710 --> 00:55:03,240
No, it should be room temperature.

1105
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:04,320
-Room temp.
-Yeah.

1106
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:05,570
Hot syrup is...

1107
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:09,690
And I don't have the manual with me,

1108
00:55:09,690 --> 00:55:14,690
but I'm pretty sure they suggest
a temperature range to use.

1109
00:55:16,007 --> 00:55:16,840
Okay.

1110
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,910
The manual is available online,

1111
00:55:18,910 --> 00:55:23,490
but, in general, things are happening,

1112
00:55:23,490 --> 00:55:26,640
things change so quickly with hot syrup.

1113
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:31,560
I mean, it's not great to
do hot syrup in a grade kit,

1114
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,120
even a temporary kit, really,

1115
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,958
just because it can be the density,

1116
00:55:36,958 --> 00:55:39,540
you have some expansion.

1117
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,050
It's not huge, but it's
different than when it cools.

1118
00:55:43,050 --> 00:55:48,050
So, in general, grading
cooler syrup is better.

1119
00:55:48,090 --> 00:55:50,193
Not always possible, I recognize.

1120
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:55,837
So I see Dan has a question.

1121
00:55:55,837 --> 00:56:00,000
"Any assistance advice with
packing larger volume batches

1122
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,533
in relation to density?

1123
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,590
I haven't been as happy
with the digital read

1124
00:56:04,590 --> 00:56:06,177
for syrup density."

1125
00:56:08,430 --> 00:56:10,350
Dan, is it possible for you to unmute

1126
00:56:10,350 --> 00:56:13,560
and clarify your question a little bit?

1127
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,825
Are you seeing issues from
start to finish of the batch?

1128
00:56:15,825 --> 00:56:18,120
Across the batch.

1129
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,540
So are you using gas fired,

1130
00:56:21,540 --> 00:56:23,130
a fairly simple canning unit

1131
00:56:23,130 --> 00:56:26,401
or do you have a water jacketed canner.

1132
00:56:26,401 --> 00:56:30,213
It seems like that might
be part of it, or could be.

1133
00:56:31,927 --> 00:56:34,173
"Steam pan through a press

1134
00:56:34,173 --> 00:56:37,230
and then water jacketed canner."

1135
00:56:37,230 --> 00:56:42,230
And so you're seeing big ranges in density

1136
00:56:42,270 --> 00:56:46,440
from when you start a batch
to when you finish, I guess.

1137
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:47,273
Is that...

1138
00:56:47,273 --> 00:56:48,513
Just clarifying.

1139
00:56:49,897 --> 00:56:52,980
"Almost one and a half Brix across."

1140
00:56:52,980 --> 00:56:54,810
Yeah, that's...

1141
00:56:54,810 --> 00:56:56,370
Considering that's almost all the way

1142
00:56:56,370 --> 00:56:58,290
through the range of density.

1143
00:56:58,290 --> 00:56:59,370
That's tough.

1144
00:56:59,370 --> 00:57:00,810
Are you filling one at a time

1145
00:57:00,810 --> 00:57:04,033
or do you have multiple
fillers going at once

1146
00:57:06,930 --> 00:57:10,020
that you're just trying to
shorten the time it takes

1147
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:11,763
to get through a huge batch.

1148
00:57:11,763 --> 00:57:14,370
That's a big batch of syrup at a time.

1149
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,660
Well, I don't have a
ton of experience, Dan,

1150
00:57:22,660 --> 00:57:26,610
so I'm happy to ask around
and try to get you an answer,

1151
00:57:26,610 --> 00:57:28,470
but I don't have anything.

1152
00:57:28,470 --> 00:57:31,020
It sounds like you're
doing a lot of things

1153
00:57:31,020 --> 00:57:35,070
that I would expect to be ideal.

1154
00:57:35,070 --> 00:57:39,350
And you're taking it to 185 Fahrenheit,

1155
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:45,210
not some extremely higher temperature.

1156
00:57:45,210 --> 00:57:46,140
All right, last question.

1157
00:57:46,140 --> 00:57:47,670
This is kind of funny.

1158
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:49,770
Talking one and having the text come back.

1159
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,780
But how long does it take you

1160
00:57:54,780 --> 00:57:59,780
to get through that 160 to 300 gallons?

1161
00:58:00,930 --> 00:58:01,763
Obviously it depends

1162
00:58:01,763 --> 00:58:03,600
on the type of container
you're filling and stuff,

1163
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,683
but how much time do you budget for that?

1164
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:11,513
Few hours?

1165
00:58:11,513 --> 00:58:13,710
Okay, well, we do have
your contact information

1166
00:58:13,710 --> 00:58:14,610
through registration,

1167
00:58:14,610 --> 00:58:17,130
so let me try to track down some answers

1168
00:58:17,130 --> 00:58:20,880
from people who have more
experience and get back to you.

1169
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:22,053
Any other questions?

1170
00:58:30,180 --> 00:58:31,440
Well, it's a lot to digest.

1171
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,240
Appreciate everyone's attention
and time and showing up.

1172
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:36,840
I know we're coming out of this thing

1173
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,370
and people are tired of webinars,

1174
00:58:38,370 --> 00:58:42,720
but we really appreciate your
registering and showing up.

1175
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:43,890
And there are more,

1176
00:58:43,890 --> 00:58:47,159
so please don't forget to
sign up for the next one.

1177
00:58:47,159 --> 00:58:50,370
It's gonna be about SAP business.

1178
00:58:50,370 --> 00:58:54,300
And check out all the past webinars

1179
00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:56,190
that are available on maplemanager.org.

1180
00:58:56,190 --> 00:58:59,130
We got a ton of content there as well.

1181
00:58:59,130 --> 00:59:01,800
And, Mark, do you have anything to add

1182
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:03,474
before we say goodnight?

1183
00:59:03,474 --> 00:59:05,250
No, thanks for the presentation, Mark.

1184
00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:06,720
It's great to have your knowledge.

1185
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,010
Thanks for the questions, everyone.

1186
00:59:08,010 --> 00:59:10,713
And, yeah, have a great evening.

1187
00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:12,943
-All right.
-Thanks, Mark.

1188
00:59:12,943 --> 00:59:15,030
-I really appreciate it.
-Take care everyone.

1189
00:59:15,030 --> 00:59:15,863
Yup.